I would run the banquette seat to the cabinet unless you need that spot for a pet dish or something.

about
your "FYI"
* 15" : ok good
* 12'" : ok good
* very customized: good. Build it out a lot, and include a landing pad counter where you can drop things that are coming out of the fridge and where you will drop groceries that will go into the fridge.

about
4. doesn't matter ("...wish ... end at the same place... extend further. Big deal? Don't worry about it?...")
4.a. the fridge needs more boxing around it and a landing pad.

3. huh? panel? you can tell them to include it in the order and then look at it all over again. A 36" panel is a lot easier to return than a wall size panel. Personally i think there is a mistake in this description ("panel needed"). Perhaps the ikean coworker thought the DW was at the end of the counter run and one of its sides would be exposed.

2 i'd make it 24" drawers; also, the banquette could run over to them instead of stopping under the window. The loss of a little elbow room when seated at the end of the table is apparent but so what.

1. doesn't matter
1.a. doesn't matter much, in many cases, but no, because small doors make it easier for you to move around (this doesn't apply in a single-person household; tell your DH to think of others. ).
1.b. to keep it consistent, buy two doors at the wall cab in the corner. Makes a big difference to the operator in that corner. Don't save money here.

0. remember that the sink doesn't have to be placed centered under the window; the psychology of symmetry is impossible to achieve in this kitchen floor plan and also in this Kind of kitchen ("box built") . So, keep in mind that any wall cab could be accompanied by open shelves to fill in a space either left or right of it.

-1. in the image, the electrical outlet is too close to the sink. It has to be positioned so that every place on the counter is within 24" of it. Same for the other outlets not yet shown in the image.

-2. Glass front doors on the wall cabs over that entire sink counter. One wall run of glass ( = partially open, partially visible, "display"), and one run of closed-door cabs (more utility oriented, storage-y)

-3. ordering to get the discount. Paraphrasing Carol Reed: Ikea illustrates cabinet assemblies as complete units. in the catalog and online, ikea makes it seem like you order a whole unit, but this is not how it works. Components are broken down at order entry. The lesson here is you can get components individually. Order the components individually as needed. For an entire kitchen, split the order: get all the core cabinetry at once. Pay for the rest at the same time during the sale (with the discount) and wait for it to be delivered later. It often happens that you would have to wait anyway.
1 order: cabinets + any inbetween panels needed to install base or wall cabinetry; immediate delivery
2nd order: drawers, glass shelves, melamine shelves
3rd order: drawer fronts, cabinet doors, toe kick strips, deco strips, end panels, cover panels, finishing panels

-4. full height end panels and various size cover panels can be cut and used as filler pieces, trim pieces, valances etc.

IMHO, you already know what to do, and you are looking for tweaking ideas.
Some of the ideas I've written say to avoid symmetry-seeking behavior, and i've also written to use glass doors on one run of wall cabs, and only glass doors.... and this is a kind of reasonable alternative to symmetry: it's consistency applied to a whole wall.

hope this helps.

palimpsest and davidro1 - Thank you both SO much for your replies! We really appreciate it!

Your ideas are terrific and raise a few new questions:

1) Dog bowl location - we do have a dog, and totally neglected to figure out a spot to put his bowl! I don't think I would want it between the bench and cabinet for fear of people knocking into it when trying to sit down. So - I guess that only leaves the hutch area next to the fridge cabinetry. We could put it in front of the hutch, or, instead of a hutch, we could have a console table or movable island, so his bowl could go underneath it close to the wall - and not be in the way. Hmmmm - his body would be in the way when he's there though (he's about 60 lbs) - but I guess we'd have to deal with that. ?

2) Landing pad next to the fridge / building out fridge boxes to the right more - I totally understand what you mean about building out the fridge boxes and having a landing pad counter. The reason why we ended the fridge boxes early is to allow for comfortable traffic flow behind the 2 nook chairs. When someone is sitting in them, with a smaller hutch (or table/cart) behind them that is approx. 15" deep, instead of the 24" deep fridge and/or base cabinets, you still have 3 comfortable feet of walking space. We laid it out with painters tape - even brought the table and chairs into the empty space and sat in them, walked behind them - to get a feel for it. So, 15" deep is really the most that we want to go for the area behind the nook. But - we will be sure that it has a counter to serve as a fridge landing pad. (There is also a small 30" counter on the wall facing the entry - but I'm not sure how fridge landing pad worthy it would be.)

3) Extending banquet seating to meet the cabinet - DH does not want to make the base cabinets next to the banquet 24" b/c he likes the symmetrical wall space framing the nook window (it has exactly 13" of open wall space on either side). Making the cabinets 24" would mean 13" on the wall side, and 7" on the cabinet side. Is it worth sacrificing extra storage space...I'm not sure. But I think this is one battle that I don't want to start with him. So - if we keep it to an 18" base, and extend the banquet to it - should we also extend the other side of the banquet so it meets the wall? (Right now, it ends short of the wall as well.)

4) Glass cabinets on sink wall - I Really love this idea. I adore my simple white dishes (plus a few extra that are sprinkled with colorful watercolor flowers) - and would so enjoy looking at them every day. This is a battle that I took up with DH just now, and won! Hooray! a) Would you make the corner cabinet door glass as well, or just the 3 doors that are flush against the wall (as shown in the above pic)? b) Also - the doors will be slightly different sizes - is that ok?: the 33-3/4" cabinet by the nook (cut down from a 36" Ikea box) will have two 16-5/8 doors (these are actually corner cabinet doors - got the idea from Ikeafans), the single cabinet to the right of the sink is 15" and the corner cabinet piece (which comes with just one door) has a 16-5/8" door.

5) Centering the sink under the window - I agree that it isn't a necessity, and it is a hair off, but it just sort of happened that way since we needed the corner piece and then a piece to go next to it (which we wanted to fit a pull out garbage). Then we wanted a normal sized dishwasher (last house had a teeny one), and a drawer big enough for silverware. So, while centering it wasn't our main goal for the base cabinets - that's how it turned out.

6) Go with two 12" doors for the 24" wall cabinets flanking the microwave instead of one 24" door - got it! (The one door would have been way too unwieldy.) And you don't mind the wide 3.5" Ikea Adel frame on the 12" door either, huh? I guess it's something that I need to learn to love (that, or get my paint brush out for paint grade doors...).

Thank you all again! DH is telling me that he wants to order everything tonight (ack!) - and I'll let him know about splitting the order.

P.S. Excuse the terra cotta pot on the table with the hydrangea - that will be an ironstone pitcher (that's been tucked away since I received it over the holidays) with hydrangea, etc., instead. :)

Is that an 18 inch countertop around the corner from the fridge? I think I'd rather have a full height cabinet (with no counter) in that spot.

The dog's pad could be on the far left hand side.

The banquette will de-symmetricize the window.... so, complete and absolute symmetry is once again "thrown out the window". You can safely extend the banquette to the cabinets. And, to add complexity, interest, and a form of balance that is esthetic and like-symmetry, you could built the end of the banquette a little bit differently where it butts the cabinets. Make it like a corner, where it comes up to the counter. Maybe make it part plant pot shelf, part seat, part dog pad. A heating cable under it will make the dog want to lie there. More about heating cables on another day, after the ordering is done. In the future.

(So far, I've not been able to divine what rooms the doors go to.) Even if this is a high traffic kitchen, you can safely build out the fridge area. You can over order now and deselect later, before delivery in a month or two from now, so you won't even have to return things that you might have too many of.

Glass wall cab fronts, including corner, OK.

I don't want to get into door styles; at this point it's a matter of taste because the two styles mentioned are in the same general category, a clean simple look.

Splitting the order won't save you any money because you have to pay for each delivery; it will be practical. If you have a vehicle large enough for the structural elements and drawers, you could do that all in one go. Your local Ikea might have an unpublished policy of letting you return things at any time in the following year, (once per household only, and with receipts proving you bought it, and they give you an instore credit). Ask about this at the return counter. Ask to have it written down in the kitchen department when you order... etc.

If you want to give your DH some extra work to keep him occupied, ask him to tweak the plan so that most of your drawers and doors all come down to TWO sizes. Then you can justify getting extra doors and drawer front panels, to store as replacements (thinking of the future).

Htt

I would try to build in a spot for the dog food and water somehow even if it is a recessed area that he can access.

*If* he will use it, that is,,,you may need to experiment by putting the food and water in a lower cabinet or box to see if he will stick his head under something to eat. Our dog would get confused if the bowls went down in the wrong order right to left and would try to squeeze behind them from the other side, so I doubt he would've adapted. I would test it out before spending money on it.

Thank you again for your replies!! You are all a terrific help!!

mcmjilly - the counter around the corner from the fridge is 30" wide (the 18" is the measurement of the wall behind it). This counter faces the entry hall from the garage which is where we will be entering/leaving the house, so we thought it would be a nice place to store keys, mail, plus whatever else.

palimpsest - good point about seeing if he will eat in a recessed location. We will have to test that out before committing to anything.

davidro1 - I'll upload a pic showing the doorways. They are everywhere!

Building out fridge wall - The reason why we thought to do a hutch next to the fridge area instead of more 24" deep cabinets is so there is enough of a walkway from the den and foyer hall into the kitchen. With a 15" deep hutch - you still have about 36" wide path to walk. If we put 24" deep cabinets there instead, you only have 27" wide path. (Plus I thought it would be neat to paint the hutch with a coordinating color as the nook pillows.)

Glass cabinets - I don't have enough pretty dishes to fill up glass cabinets including the corner door, and DH was having an issue with the different size doors soooooooo he is reworking all of the upper cabinets now to make them more symmetrical and give me the perfect amount of glass cabinetry for my dishes. Stay tuned!!!

Splitting order - I think we will split the order, and at least keep the doors, drawer fronts and panels as one order so, in case we find a much cheaper paint grade Shaker door option than Adel, we can just cancel that one order and keep the cabinet boxes, etc.

Banquette - Interesting idea on having a corner piece next to the banquette - we'll have to play with that after getting the L cabinets finalized!

Splitting order - if you want to start soon, you may find that the order for the bases is a good thing to separate out. According to the Carol Reed blog, Ikea may delay delivering your order until everything has arrived from distant warehouses, and this will delay delivery beyond their promised delivery date. They will call and say the delivery is delayed.

Doorways, Access points - Since there is another path through the house ( I'll guess there is, since otherwise the DR is locked in to one access), you can, in my view, build out the fridge box. One way or another. The fridge is far from the counters. Instead of thinking about people who want to walk from the den to the hall to the garage, forget about them for a while and think about the kitchen needs. Later, you might choose to make den-to-garage walkers take one more step around the fridge area or to walk along the Other Path through the house.

Banquette - good to do that later. After the base cabinets are in, that space will take the small error you inevitably generate when the bases get fitted into the corner.

Sizing doors - you may find the sizes cannot be optimized any more than what you have already.

You found already what you got? It nice and very well design. Nice to this kind of thought, Done such a great job.

Either the cabinet behind the fridge or the shallow cabinet beside the fridge could be a place to put upper cabinets and a countertop but leave the bottom open for your dog's needs; I don't know anything about IKEA's cabinets, but if they have a base unit that has only a drawer under the counter and is open the rest of the way, that could still give you some storage and the space you need for the dog's bowl.
Or you could find a place outside the kitchen for the dog, but that may not be easy, depending on your house layout.

Banquette seating...Check your dimensions. As shown, it doesn't look like there's enough room for someone sitting on the left end and someone sitting on the top & bottom sides on the left...they share leg room and that won't work. Additionally, I don't think there's enough room b/w the end of the cabinet run and the table to fit a chair on the right end.

To get the 6 people you appear to want, you need at least 24" per seat plus, on the long sides, a minimum of 12" b/w each end of the tables and the beginning of the 24" spacing for the people on the long ends.

So, for 6 people, the table should be 6' long (12" + 24" + 24" + 12") and at least 36" deep (for 18" of leg room for people on both of the long sides).

You also should have around 30" b/w the table and the end of the cabinet run. 24" might work in a pinch.

Is this your only table seating? Or, do you have a DR? If you do have a DR, maybe you could plan for fewer seats at the banquette? Maybe just 4...two on each long side with, maybe a single seat on the left short end in rare circumstances...

greencleaning - Thanks for the compliments!

singingmicki - "shallow cabinet beside the fridge" "put upper cabinets and a countertop but leave the bottom open for your dog's needs" - Brilliant! We love this idea! What a perfect spot! (I didn't want to get rid of the hutch next to the fridge in order to put the dog bowls there, and now we don't have to.) Thank You!!

buehl - We do have a dining room and need to banquette to seat a family of 4. I see what you mean about the leg room issue. From your post, I think we're going to need to put a Lot more thought into the banquette. Thank you for all the great info!

davidro1 - Again, thank you so much for your reply and terrific advice! We will take everything into consideration and we revisit the fridge wall options.

Right now, we're trying to finalize the "L" cabinets. We put together 2 mockups based on all of the great suggestions we've been receiving here and on IkeaFans. What option does everyone like best for the "L?" CHOICE A: SYMMETRICAL 15's ALL of the wall cabinet have 15" doors (on both the stove and sink sides)! LOVE the symmetry (achieved by cutting down the upper corner cabinet). [](http://www.flickr.com/photos/40167831@N08/5672410282/) Stove wall base cabinets: From left to right: \* corner piece (with two 12" doors, one on each wall) \* small cutting board pullout \* 15" (not sure if I would do all drawers or some drawers...still need to decide on that) \* stove \* 15" drawers And I gain a bigger stretch of countertop between the stove and the sink. Sink wall base cabinets: From left to right: \* 18" drawers \* 24" dishwasher \* 24" Domsjo single bowl sink \* 15" (for pull out garbage) \* corner piece with two 12" doors (one on each wall) Questions: 1\) Glass cabinets \- I'm not sure that I have enough pretty dishes to fill the deep corner cabinet too. Would it look strange to keep that as a regular door? 2\) There are 2" of extra space to the left of the far left wall cabinet (next to the nook) \- DH would love it if the wall space flanking the nook window was symmetrical (not displayed in pic). Right now it is 13" to the left and 15" to the right. Is there anything that can be done with that extra 2" inches to fill it in? (We ended the backsplash to match the upper \- not sure if that's the best idea either.) CHOICE B: BLIND UPPER CORNER CABINET AND SHELVES Stove wall: [](http://www.flickr.com/photos/40167831@N08/5672410196/) [](http://www.flickr.com/photos/40167831@N08/5671843445/) Stove Wall Uppers: \* a 30" (which has 12" hidden) with an 18" next to it (two 18" doors so it LOOKS like a 36" cabinet) \* 30" above the microwave (two 15" doors) \* 18" with a 6" shelf on the end to fill in the space. Stove Wall Base: \* corner piece (two 12" doors, one on each wall) \* 12" \- yes \- bottom section for cookie sheets and things \* stove \* 24" drawers Sink wall: Here's where it gets super custom. [](http://www.flickr.com/photos/40167831@N08/5671843503/) [](http://www.flickr.com/photos/40167831@N08/5671843323/) Sink Wall Uppers: From left to right: \* 6" shelf \* 27" custom cabinet \* window \* 27" custom cabinet \* (not seen \- but there would be 12 inches of the blind cabinet from the stove wall) The two 27" glass cabinets flanking the sink should be the perfect amount of storage to put my beloved dishes. Loving the symmetry here. Now 27" cabs are not that much bigger than the 24" cabs with 12" doors that I was trying to avoid. I think this plan would commit us to paint grade Shaker doors since we'd need custom door sizes. I saw companies selling paint grade doors that might actually be cheaper than Adel White (which is making DH very happy), but more research is needed. Also, while it would give me an excuse to buy some adorable ironstone creamers and/or pretty colored glass vases to decorate the corner shelves \- I'm not sure about all that dusting. Sink Wall Base From left to right (same as Choice A): \* 18" drawers (the pic is wrong \- it should be all drawers) \* 24" dishwasher \* 24" Domsjo single bowl sink \* 15" (for pull out garbage) \* corner piece with two 12" doors (one on each wall) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you all again for your help!!

Blind upper cabinets are even more difficult to access than blind base cabinets. (My MIL has both, and they're both pretty useless, but the upper is the worst. She tries not to put anything in that cabinet beyond a few inches past the opening.)

if you look at the bases as one comparison,
and the uppers as another comparison,
i think you'll be able to decide things more easily.

if you could take the time to write out comparisons of just those elements in two short lists side by side or one after the other, it would help me (and perhaps others too).

--
Since you like customizing, keep in mind that you can add or subtract an inch or two from the 24" depth (distance from wall to front).

I saw this:
Stove Wall Uppers:
* a 30" (which has 12" hidden) with an 18" next to it (two 18" doors so it LOOKS like a 36" cabinet)
... and i thought it would be worth mentioning that one wider cabinet either 39" or (whatever customized size you make) will be far more practical than a 30" and an 18". A vertical panel is a big barrier, and it is worse in a small space (e.g.18").

buehl and davidro1 - Thank you both, yet again! You just helped me feel better about our decision, which I was struggling to come to terms with. The main goal should be to make the kitchen as Functional as possible.

And so, we ultimately decided to go back to the original plan with the 24" cabinets flanking the microwave (and skinny doors):

Here's why: We decided against Choice B \- blind corner/shelves b/c: \* the blind corner would have been difficult to access \* it had an 18" wide cabinet to the left of the microwave, which as you said, is rather small. We received a suggestion to make the 27" glass front cabinet to the right of the window the blind corner instead, which would then give you a nice sized 36" cabinet to the left of the microwave, but \- then you would see the blind space through the glass. \* as much as I tried, I couldn't get myself to love the corner shelves \- they meant less usable cabinet space, dusting, and I prefer a clean, shelf\-less look instead. And as much as I really Loved all the symmetry in the 15" door plan, Choice A, we decided against it too, b/c: \* My DH is the cook in the house and he felt that the 15" counter to the right of the stove was too small to be useful. \* The two 15" drawers flanking the stove, and the 15" cabinet to the right of the microwave would be small too \- not as practical as they could be \* Having only 15" of space to the right of the stove would also make the traffic flow in that corner more cramped.

And so - Function won over Form. As much as I was trying to avoid the 12" wide doors, (we still might end up going with custom doors with a smaller frame if it ends up being cheaper than the Adel White), it makes more practical sense to have two 24" wide cabinets than one wide and one small. Also, the stove is in a good spot in terms of counter space (with a full 24" inches to the right) and traffic flow. Those 24" drawers should prove to be more useful as well. The 12" to the left of the stove, while very small, can be used to house things like cookie trays, cooling racks, etc.

The sink wall will have, from left to right: a 33", window, 15" and then the corner cabinet. Even though they won't be perfectly symmetrical in size, it will be fairly close, and the 33" will allow the base counter to line up, give us more storage, and give DH the equal wall space that he wanted to either side of the nook window. While the 15" is small, it was either that, or go with a blind corner and lose space. So, I'll just keep my teacups and things in it.

As for the glass doors, for now, it looks like we will just do one on the corner cabinet. DH thought it looked silly in any other configuration since it was not symmetrical (except for all glass including the corner door - but I don't think I have enough pretty things for that...unless we go with a glass that is not totally see through...hmmm.....)

And there you have it! I hope we made the right decision when it came to the "L." The fridge wall, nook, and newly designated "pet center" thanks to singingmicki (around the corner from the fridge) - are still being tweaked. So - I'm sure there will be more pics and questions to come.

Thank you all again for your help!!

(Oh - and the custom stove wall uppers was a Very cool suggestion, but would require a 36" stove, correct? Ours will be 30")