And with an older house especially, wouldn't it make more sense to inspect before making an offer?

Doing it that way you run the risk that someone will make an offer while you are waiting for the inspection.

Graywings...
First rule of a buyer should be to get the property under THEIR control. A Buyer can not do that unless he is under a written contract. Seller could change price and terms in midstream, as well as the Buyer. And like terriks says, the property is not under contract, so you may end up writing the inspector a check for $500, and the same minute another buyer comes along and enters into a written contract.
Second, there are "Time Is Of The Essence" dates associated with any contingency in a contract, especially the home inspection. These are drop dead dates. W/O a contract, the timeline between the sellers and buyers is open - ended.
Letting a stranger into your home, who has not given you a pre approval letter, an Earnest Money Deposit, an Option Payment, nor a written contract, sooner than later, is inviting trouble.

That makes sense.

"Letting a stranger into your home, who has not given you a pre approval letter, an Earnest Money Deposit, an Option Payment, nor a written contract, sooner than later, is inviting trouble."

Totally agree. As a seller, I would have serious concerns & doubts about a buyer like that. I would be suspicious that they would be playing games.

Did you have an agent? I would never allow an inspection without a contract. Your agent should have advised against this.

I would never allow an inspection before a contract. When my house was inspected the inspector left both ovens on HIGH when they left and broke the knob on the attic fan. We didn't notice the knob until a few days later but it was the only explaination. They also pulled off the collar of the shower head so roughly they scratched the fixture, and left a pile of crumbly drywall in the tub.

Ugh!

And how did having a contract in place serve to help you, gmp3?

Well they were more invested in the house at that point. I guess it is like putting out on the first date - if the woman gets knocked up she's more likely to be on her own than if she is engaged to the guy ;-).

I didn't repair the scratches in the shower but would have if they didn't buy. Also if they found something you'd be forced to disclose to the next potential buyer and often repairs that are listed are not functional, but may need disclosure, like broken window seals, warped siding, etc., and the next buyer may or may not want them fixed.

Graywings,
In NC contracts they state that the buyer is ultimately responsible for any damages incurred during any of the inspections.

Well, my buyer wasn't any more of a stranger to me without a contract than he is now, with one. I knew all his info. And I knew the inspection company and I was here during the inspection. I felt my buyer was at risk, not me, because he was investing about five hundred dollars in a house on a verbal aggreement. We hadn't even hammered out the details in that verbal agreement. Plus, the house could have been swooped up by someone else before we signed anything. I wasn't worrying about the inspector finding anything wrong that I didn't already show the buyer. And if there was something crazy, having a contract wouldn't have changed things. I either fix it or I don't. He either walks or he doesn't.

OP Here:

The situation has been pretty messy. It's really confusing to explain. As to the inspection happening before mutual acceptance: We had removed the personal items from their addendum. Our agent was informed they would sign and deposit earnest money. They scheduled the inspection for the next day. The signed addendum and earnest money never came. They resubmitted another addendum for the 3K after the inspection occurred. If I recall correctly, at this point my agent had told them he would lower his commission by 3K so it was no longer an issue.

At the time of the inspection, our agent never informed us we weren't under contract. I would have refused the inspection, but I think it turned out OK in the end for us. We said that we were done negotiating with them until they disclosed the inspection and repair list. This way we wouldn't waste any more of our time trying to get mutual acceptance if they weren't going to be reasonable. In the end, they were semi-reasonable. We do finally have mutual acceptance and earnest money.

Dh has returned from being out of the country on business and he's taken over the negotiations. There was a small glitch with the appraisal. Something about not enough loan to value ratio. Not sure how this could be an issue since they are putting down 50% (house is in the million+ range). They were supposedly short 60K and asked to "split the baby." We said no.

All inspection contingencies are removed on Monday. Close is set for 10/10. DH has 1 item on the repair list he doesn't agree with. The inspector questioned the need for an additional support footing. It's not necessary, and after talking with dh (we were the general contractors on the addition) the inspector is now saying he can't comment on whether it's necessary. Agent is having to get sign-off from our architect. Not sure why they wouldn't ask our structural engineer.

I don't understand.......how could you not know you didn't have a contract? You would have had the contract itself with yours and their signatures affixed to it - no need to rely on the realtor telling you.

A million plus house changes the $3k scenario a lot. If they can afford a million plus house it makes them very foolish and cheap that they need to whine about that. If you have a milion plus house to sell, it sort of makes you just as silly to let that be a roadblock from selling, doesnt it? You are still "more in the right" - they have no right to think you should reimburse them for your furniture that was never conveying in the first place.

Thanks for the explanation, surrounded. I hope it all works out for you! Good Luck!

"Not sure why they wouldn't ask our structural engineer."

They have no idea what they are doing.

Cas66ragtop, that's why they have a million dollar house. Because they watch every penny! lol

""Not sure why they wouldn't ask our structural engineer."
They have no idea what they are doing.""
starting with, why do they think this? how is the person doing the inspection remotely qualified to assess whether the footings for the additon is adequate? he might be able to see cracking or shifting, but beyond that.......

did the town do a structural inspection? yes..... were plans signed off by architect/structural engineer? yes
if there is any reason to believe that this is not adequate, go to a structural engineer with plans and then have them inspect house.

The burden of proof is for the buyers to prove that the home needs structural repairs. Have them bring in an engineer for $750, if they think there is really a problem.

Did you close today on your home? Did you make it out of town with all your things?

Hoping you have a minute to respond!!!!

I realize this is an old thread.... however, I just have to vent and put it out there. My home was on the market, I received an offer and accepted it. The buyer is also his own listing agent. In the past 3 weeks, the buyer has asked me to include my entire home gym, deck furniture, pool furniture, blinds, curtains and curtain rods, basement refrigerator, garage freezer, hot tub, and all light fixtures. Realize he's his own agent and has the run of the house whenever he wants cause of realtor access. He literally walks through every time and makes a list of all my things. After inspection, he then decides, he wants me to re-stain my front porch. Re-do my entire 120 feet 2 car wide driveway (not just a fresh seal, actually re-do the whole thing), knock down my huge deck (which is in excellent condition) to rebuild it to his specification and then stain it, and re-do a stone walkway from the deck stairs to the actual backyard. My agent told him to shove it and if he wanted a brand new construction, to go look for one. He proceeded with the sale after we said no to all his demands. During the signing of the contract he managed to slip/sneak most of those things back in the contract, along with a $3,000 credit which we denied! Crazy enough, prior to all of this I was going to be nice by leaving a list of all landscape on property, explanations of how things work, and manuals and warranties to everything. Now I'm literally leaving the house behind down to the bare minimum. I'm not even leaving a lightbulb, or toilet paper holder!!!!

Heck, just remove the lockbox or change the keys.

How does someone "sneak" changes into a contract?

By sneak I mean, he asked for a multitude of things tallying close to 50 thousand 1-2 weeks prior to contract signing, all to which I clearly said more than a handful of times NO. When contracts came around, he and his real estate attorney wrote them into the contract as part of the sale in hopes that it wouldn't get noticed and wishing I would have signed off on it.

I should also add, along with the multitude of items he requested, things he wanted me to re-do and/or re-model towards his specifications, he also had written into the contract that I would owe him $3000. after sale for up to a year should anything break and etc....

Yeah, ppl try to pull stuff like that. Keep saying no.

some things he asked for do convey

but i wouldn't want to sit through a dinner with this guy, much less do business with him

Sure wish surroundedbywater would have come back after closing 6 years ago with an update on how it went. Ancient history now, but still a very interesting situation to read about.

Tonyjp, make sure your lock box code is changed and tell your agent that this idiot is not allowed near your house anymore.

I loved that comment, cpartist.

I agree! Actually, his appraisal is tomorrow. He will be here again. However, I had my agent remove the lock box yesterday. Contracts are signed and I'm more than happy with it. I will also be here when he comes knocking with the appraiser tomorrow. It's been extremely easy to say No to everything because his mistake in the very beginning was to write a letter to my agent and also verbalized how bad he wants my house, me knowing that made it easier to say no to all his demands. It's just been so extremely annoying and stressful for weeks to have to deal with him. I do feel like karma will get him for his endless greed!

Where in the hell does he get off in thinking certain things that are not attached convey? I get light fixtures, but furniture! What an ass! I can't help but feel realtors think a seller is so anxious and worried about selling they'll do just about anything. Could be true with a job transfer, but not always the case.

Tony, you need to 'rent' a vicious dog to keep in the yard. ;)

The chutzpah of some people, never fails to amaze me.

Tonyjp,

All I can say is "unreal". When are you closing? Hope things go smoothly.

Tonyjp- If I were you, I'd make sure your Realtor is there, but not you. This buyer is sleazily slick. He's playing an interesting game that you may not be privy to you. What if, instead of his "wanting your house" badly, he's waiting to get you into a position of weakness, where you want to just get it over with?

It's a poor idea to meet him unrepresented, especially in this situation. Your Realtor is making a nice payday with this sale- it's the job. Let him/her handle the appraisal appointment.

I also hope you're taking a real estate attorney to your closing, or at least having a RE attorney crawl through all documents. . You know the buyer is doing that. Closing in different areas is different. Some places, you and the buyer go in separately. Some places, you're both at the same table at the same time. Either way, you might want to take the buyer's behavior, to this point, into account, and get yourself legally protected. Realtors, for all their skills and responsibilities, simply cannot do that for you.

Good luck, and check back!

Thanks PattyCakes for lumping all agents together as greedy, slimeball asses.

Fortunately for me, my realtor is one of my oldest and dearest friends. Apart from that she's the #1 agent 4 years running in my county and a pit bull in heels if I do say so myself. She's definitely had my best interest at hand! She's literally halted him in his track. What's unfortunate is the buyer is his own RE agent, doesn't practice selling at all and hasn't in over 10 years, he focuses on appraisals for a living. Sadly, he hasn't had a clue to what he's doing in reguards to being a RE agent and my agent has had to do it all.

I 100% have a RE attorney. As soon as I walked into sign the contract she hands me 2 stacks of paper, one of which was 90% scratched out, along with a rider list of demands and the other a clear copy she has typed up herself. Fist thing she says to me was wow, in my 30 years of specializing in being an RE attorney, I've never seen anything like this sneakiness. She actually took the time to come to my house, walk around and make a specific list of what they will get and what they won't.

I have to say, i have an amazing and knowledgeable agent and attorney. This guy is seriously getting caught by the balls with all his stupid antics by 2 smart woman and I'm kind of reveling in it. LOL

I work from home and I have taken enough time off uprooting to have this SOB disrupt my life by coming here for his BS or otherwise. That is why I will be here for the appraisal tomorrow morning. Apart from that, my agent had the lockbox taken off last Friday to ensure the SOB buyer doesn't have anymore access. My agent will be here tomorrow as well for the appraisal.

I have no idea when I'm closing yet, I'm thinking it will be sometime mid July, even though in the process of it all.... the buyer was adamant at one point of having me out and him in by July 1st. Which I don't think it's a possibility. He's gone to the bank last week to try and get approved for a higher mortgage and pay less down for whatever reason, I personally don't care as long as I get paid.

i seriously want to thank you for the good lucks and hearing my venting, it has helped tremendously in this completely stressful situation. Will keep you posted....

So during the appraisal last Monday, the buyer was walking around as if he already owned it already. Opening my cabinets in the kitchen and wanting to use my bathroom. Now he's coming again tomorrow with a pool inspector. Does anyone know if he has to come with the pool inspector or not?

Well, to be fair, if I were buying a home with a pool, I'd want to be there when the inspector is there. However, tell your agent that this has to stop. No more. And unless there are controls inside the house, he should not get access to the house during the pool inspection. Have your agent make that perfectly clear. And he didn't need to be there for the bank appraisal, either.

It's just all so annoying to me at this point! With his continuous lists of demands totaling over 60 thousand at this point, him being his own RE agent and not doing anything, leaving all the work to my agent. Coming into my house on his free will when the lockbox was still there and going through all my personal things every single time. Coming again for appraisal, inspection, pool inspection, that's 6 times in total already. Also demanding that I be out of the house in 3 weeks. He's just such an obnoxious douche bag trying to force all his demands on me. I'm going to also add that he literally told my agent that he's getting screwed on his house sale so he's going to try and recoup through me. It's not my fault at all he bought a house for 600 thousand and ended up selling it for 340 thousand with all the contents in it.

PS, my sympathies. Sounds like the brother of the guy who bought our house in California last year. My agent was ready to kill the guy, his own agent was afraid of him, and we were so worn down by the time we closed just by his demands to be there for everything. The septic inspection? yup.

tony...is there any way you can still send him to the place, you know, he came from?

You have to keep us updated!

Fingers crossed you get finished with this quickly...good luck!

Jane

Tony I feel for you. This one sounds exactly as you described him, a derriere aperture.

Please definitely let us know how it plays out.

Fortunately for me, my realtor is one of my oldest and dearest friends. Apart from that she's the #1 agent 4 years running in my county and a pit bull in heels if I do say so myself. She's definitely had my best interest at hand! She's literally halted him in his track.

Sounds to me like your pit bull is more of a Chihuahua for letting the Buyer get away with all he has but without reading your mutually agreed to contract it is a bit difficult to know if the Buyer is within his rights...still it sounds to me like your Realtor should deflect much of the Buyers personal comments and interactions with you.

Reading this post is why I have instructed my agent to make it clear that the appliances are the only things that will convey with the home to the buyer. We're going on the market June 15th. :)

This is so interesting! We have been on both sides of buying a selling personal items during a real estate transaction. We have purchased sellers personal items and we have had buyers purchase our personal items. I have never been offended when a buyer asked to purchase our furniture, I viewed it as a compliment. When we bought the home we live in now the previous owner acted a tiny bit offended that we didn't want some of their furniture. They even left the original price tags on the kitchen counter of items we didn't want so that we could see what we missed out on. If I don't want something I don't care if it cost $1 or $1000.

When my DS and his then-wife bought a very large house in CT, they bought (separate contract from the house) a great deal of the furniture, both indoor and outdoor. When they sold it 5 years later when they divorced, the new buyers wanted a few things. Unfortunately, they were things my DS was to get in the divorce and his wife agreed to this. Since the house had been on the market for 16 months and was selling for nearly $900,000 less than they paid for it, my DS did not make a stink. Wish he had gotten those club chairs, though!

My parents bought several rugs in a house they purchased 47 years ago, and had previously bought a few things from a house they had bought in 1962. It's really quite common, and if the sale of the house is due to downsizing, it's an excellent way to sell furniture that is not needed or won't fit in a new residence.

My cousin bought a beautiful home. There were a lot of great features but the one thing I really loved was a Venetian mirror in the powder room. She told me she fell in love with the mirror, too, and had it written into the contract. When I sold my first home the buyers asked for my kitchen table in their offer. I took it as a compliment. It was an antique round pedestal table that was a perfect for the space. I agreed since i was going to purchase something different for new house. I thought these negotiations took place all the time.

I have this issue too. It really makes me mad. We have spent a ton in upgrades alone and have warranty so the home is in good condition and now they want our personal things too. What is wrong with people. If I knew they wanted $6K in personal items I would have priced it higher.

Just say no. That's the easy way to deal with them.