byzantine wrote "we are more tuned into trends than I wanted to believe."

I feel this, too. I'm not ancient, but I've been around long enough to have seen many decades of kitchen trends. My goal this time is to create a modern functioning kitchen in a classic style that suits the architecture of my home and reflects my personal tastes.

One thing that has served me well is the trove of favorite design magazines and tear sheets that I've collected over many years. It still surprises me to come upon things I liked over a decade ago that still appeal to me now.

I'm leaning toward a color scheme that includes a grey stained island and I wonder if I'm not being swayed by the grey kitchens that seem to be everywhere now. Then I look at my tear sheets from the '80's with rooms paneled with weathered grey barn board paneling and I know that those neutral New Englandy colors have always appealed to me. Still, I wish I wasn't seeing so much of it out there today.

I agree with the article about the desk-in-the-kitchen--a nice idea, but in practice it's strictly a place to pile the mail. Perhaps in some families a child does homework there while Mom or Dad fixes dinner? I have cabinets above the desk--could the space below those cabinets be emptied of the desk and an additional cabinet be inserted?

My Mom had a desk built in to her kitchen, and she used it almost daily for 36 years. She kept her calendar there, as well as mail supplies, checkbook and calculator. It's where she filed bills and wrote letters. A shelf over the desk held folder of important stuff and cookbooks.

I had a desk in my old kitchen that was a handy horizontal surface for junk. Admittedly, the difference had a lot more to do with our personality types than the nature of our kitchen desks! I eliminated the desk in my kitchen remodel, and now I tend to pile stuff on the end of the table. I'm hopeless.

annkh- I'm a piler too, and I knew I wouldn't stop so I just made a spot for my pile. It is in the mudroom, when you first walk in from the garage, before you make it into the kitchen.

Ah! Beauty, thanks for the explanation about the seal failure. That does make sense. :)

Re desks, the question of whether they'll be used has to do as much with how they're constructed as personality. My friend's house has a little one from the 1970's, right by the laundry room door, and across from the hall door, with a tuffet that slides underneath. The tuffet is uncomfortable and there's no room for a chair. The desk is small so there's only room for a phone and a pad, not to spread out a project, or even bills on. The drawers are useful, but being on a straight line from the mailbox, it's mostly the classic dumping ground. This is in an open airy kitchen with a sunny breakfast room with great views on the other side of the kitchen, as well as a peninsula with comfy stools. If one were going to do menu planning, shopping lists, family calendaring, bill paying ,or anything else, why sit on the nasty tuffet in the door zone, facing a wall, back to the stove, when one could sit in the light with a view of the whole kitchen at the peninsula, or at the table with a view of the golf course?

Designed well, even facing a wall, a kitchen desk is potentially useful, but it usually gets put where there wasn't anything more important to put in that space, and isn't designed for optimal use, or it's purposefully put where it's easy to dump the mail, and it becomes a mail dump. :)

It is funny to think, though, that what we now agree is "classic" (ie shaker, soapstone, farmhouse) was for quite some time considered old-fashioned and dated.

Tastes are cyclical and there is no denying, or avoiding it.
I personally am thrilled that the shaker look that I have loved since I visited Pleasant Hill as a child Is on trend.
But I am not so sure that it will be around all that much longer -- I am seeing much more 50s and 60s, "clean modern" inspired design; the furniture company that made my dining table and chairs (and who made shaker inspired bedrooms that I loved) ten years ago has dropped that style entirely.
And, with the trend toward spare modern, I suppose my desire to see the furniture styles of my grandmother's era re-imagined (talking 1920s here) is doomed.

I do think most things are cyclical. (Though I refuse to think that white painted cabinets are--they have appear in kitchens of all decades in various forms). I am hoping that making choices that are consistent with my 1926 French Revival house will insulate me a bit from that.

Beauty - but a stretching effect on the sink's rim seal shouldn't be a factor in a properly-installed undermount sink, should it? If one cradles the sink correctly from below, using clips, braces or wood, there will be no more pull on the seal than between any other two static surfaces. The seal is not to cement the sink into place; that would be a poor contractor indeed. It's just to moisture-proof the gap for an already-rock-solid sink.

But yes, your pic, gah! Gunk must die.

Circuspeanut: You know how when you can't get the lid off a new jar of pickles, you run the lid under very hot water and it now comes off much easier? That is because of differential thermal expansion. The lid has expanded size due to heat, but the glass inside the lid, shielded from the lid, doesn't expand much at all, so in effect the lid gets a little bigger, and comes off more easily.

Now, when you have a steel sink inside a stone layer, the steel filled with hot water, the same thing happens. It expands, more than the stone. This creates shear force on the seal. Now, silicone is quite flexible and can take a lot, but it will eventually delaminate under shear stress. Once you get any sort of delamination, you have a breach in the seal, and now water can wick into your unfinished, stone, underneath.

In the case of a drop in sink, when you fill it with hot water the same thing happens, but the difference is that gravity works for you, using the weight of the water/sink to pull down on that silicone seal, in effect causing a pressure seal with a gasket even when the adhesion is delaminated. Not only that, the in-effect-silicone-gasket is seated on the FINISHED, SEALED surface of the stone.

So, while there can be stiff undermounts, there is much higher risk of delamination of the silicone seal over time, and once there is a breach of that seal a domino effect takes place. The risk is higher because the stone is unsealed and porous on the underside, and because any weight effectively tries to open the crack, (rather than push it closed over a gasket, which is the case with a drop in sink). First, water wicks into that unsealed stone. Then it grows slime. Now the slime itself is a layer, preventing seal, acting like a wick itself when water is present.

Once you have water penetration into the stone, your clips may be affected and fail, or your wood support or deck may soften and begin to rot.

Here's a picture of a rusted out sink clip from below, after water infiltration due to seal failure. Remember, the underside of stone is porous.

Another example of water infiltration into stone, affecting the undermount support system, resulting in failure.

How does the undermount issue play out if the sink is cast iron or siligranite instead of stainless?

Why can't the underside of the stone countertop be sealed?

What about stones that aren't porous? I'm thinking of Ubatuba and Tropic Brown (which we have), but there are others of course.

raee said: "Tastes are cyclical and there is no denying, or avoiding it."

Indeed! Our 1947 home we had in town (and is now a rental) had all the original tile in the bathroom- blak and white beehive tile on the floor, white (now aged to a beautiful antique patina) subway tile wainscoting with a black and white decorative strip and black upper border. I would share if I had my photos on this computer, but paired with a robin's egg blue is was gorgeous and timeless! Around so long the style has come back around. ;o) Now I see similarly tiled bathrooms all over the place and still love that original bathroom.

@schicksal Colorful appliances makes me think of the bright red KitchenAid stuff you can get (mixer, coffee maker, toaster, pizza cutter, ...).

That trend has been out for a looooong time. I shouldn't talk - I inherited and use my mom's 1970's Harvest Gold KitchenAid mixer. HAHA.

Now HERE is THE new trend. I should get myself one of these - for the guy who has everything. There's also some frilly ones for you gals - see link below. (Actually, not that new - some TV chefs have custom painted designs on their shows.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Un Amore Custom Designs

This post was edited by DreamingoftheUP on Wed, Apr 9, 14 at 22:40

Oh good heavens to Betsy! We are such a nation of "I want that!"

Been thinking about this all afternoon . Before I got my new sink I came in and asked about sink failure and all were like nah do not worry about that. Now this article and others saying it will be bound to happen. I sure hope not .

Speaking of sinks that are "out", I have tile in. :) Best of both worlds. :) Under the tile, flange over the substrate. :)

Raee was right in talking about styles being cyclical, but the classic things are ones that don't look out when the context isn't out. A farmhouse sink in a bare bones farmhouse kitchen circa 1940 is still going to look dated and quaint. In the context of stone counters and stainless steel appliances, it's current to the last decade, and it's the kitchen around it that will become dated, not the sink as an individual element.

Are raised panel cabinets out? Nope. Arch tops are out, but your basic raised panel door is one of those classics. It's not necessarily the top choice of trendsetting designers, but in a now kitchen, it's a now choice.

Tiled counters are out in the sense that people just aren't doing them, but I did. Mine don't look like anything that happened in another era. They might not be "in" and on trend, but they're anything but dated.

There's a huge difference between not used much at the moment and dated. Dated is a whole look, not an individual element. And if the whole look fits with the rest of the house, rather than being an installed exemplar of a passing design phase, it'll look fine well into the future.

>> Mudhouse - I feel the same way about painted cabinets. Definitely a regional thing and where I moved from it was a big drawback. In general though moving to Charleston, SC has been an experience. Lots of stuff that to me looks 10 years old.

>> DreamingoftheUP - ok that blender is nuts. I think the red is *finally* giving way around here but like I said, this place feels like 10 years ago with regard to design and decorating.

IMO just keeping the overall look appropriate to the house goes a longer way than anything else. The Mediterranean themed kitchen in a colonial will never age that well.

Let's face it, there are really only so many "foundation" kitchen designs, it is essentially only our materials that make one different from another. If white cabinets are on-again, off-again trendy then we are in trouble, lol! Our choices are light cabs, medium cabs or dark cabs and the fine shades within each range.

Some things are intrinsically trendy, not because of their status as a hot item but because of our limited choices.

I have 4" square tiles in my shower. I have a remodel planned and I'm going with 4" again. My BD gave me raised eyebrows. I love the look now and I'm sure I will in the future. It's so dated, it's timeless. :) I'm keeping them all lined up, as opposed to brick-like. That would annoy me.

I predict:

* backlash against busy tile backsplashes

* backlash against stainless appliances - we'll be seeing enameled appliances in sophisticated off-whites and neutrals

* backlash against visually prominent hoods

I have 2/3 of the above...sigh.

Linelle, I like subway tiles. But I also like 4" tiles. If I had my DD's little Cape to remodel, I would even consider them for the kitchen.

Linelle, I'm seriously considering 4 x 4 s for the kitchen backsplash. It's appropriate to the era of my house and I like them too. Though I am thinking offset. :)

I predict:

* kitchens will move towards warmer finishes

* quartz will fade and natural countertops will continue to be in high demand

* glass tile backsplashes will fade, especially the thin linear and mosaic patterns so prominent in the home improvement stores

I agree with feisty68 on the busy backsplashes and hoods, but I don't see stainless going anywhere for a while.

Generally speaking, once a design element becomes readily available at price points most can afford, it falls out of favor with designers and they have to come up with a new "must have" look. I think the white/gray/marble was a backlash against the overdone Tuscan trend. Now that this "one true kitchen" look is showing up in builder grade kitchens for the masses, designers will once again steer their flock in the opposite direction, hence my prediction of a return to kitchens with warmer finishes.

amck, I like subway tiles too. I have them for my kitchen backsplash and while I think I will be happy with them for the long term, my appetite for them has been sated.

crl_, I would totally consider 4" for a backsplash, esp. set on the diagonal.

I didn't care much for my old 6" builders grade counter tile, although it was easy to care for, but terrible as a writing surface. A look I love is 4" tile counter and backsplash, with contrasting edge and trim. Not sure which decade they hail from, 30s? 40s? They were common growing up and they remind me of happy days. I would totally have that look again.

I love my 4" tile in the shower. Plain and simple.

I predict:
slab front doors in either glossy white or other colors; or in wood (including oak)
counter tops in quartz or ceramic/porcelain or glass
appliances that are integrated and paneled
Either no handles or big chunky handles
no tiled backsplash

I think busy granite is looking dated. I did Delicatus (or Alaska White) in my last kitchen with LOTS of pattern but for my new kitchen I am leaning towards a more solid pattern look.

@ Greenhaven-- I had that 1929 bathroom in my first house, complete with pedestal sink. Liked it and left it as it was -- wonder if it has survived the last 30+ years! It is totally on trend now!

A recent issue of Martha Stewart Magazine says brass is back -- not bright & shiny, but mellow and deep.

Unless quartz proves to have real drawbacks, or becomes too associated with commercial applications (something that put me off lower price solid surface), I don't think it will go away. It might just evolve into other colors and patterns.

I do think that the large porcelain slabs will be the next big thing in kitchens, that might have real staying power too since I can see them working with a variety of home styles.

nosoccermom: lol, my all time favorite inspiration kitchen is this!

courtesy of: http://delightbydesign.blogspot.com/2011/06/craving-rustic-butcher-block.html

If I ever get a chance to do a complete reno (or build my own home) I will totally do this or something very like it. I love everything about it except the pendants, lol!

I predict a return to earth tones and shades of olive, or maybe pastels and a lighter shade of oak. Sort of a pickled look.

Basically, two things that would cause the forum to melt down completely. :D

Maybe we can bring avocado green and harvest gold back?? ;)

You mean like these:

New Alno Kitchen

IKEA Norje -- available now in Europe

One of my recent design mags had a photo spread heralding the return of light wood stains.....which is what I'm removing from my kitchen.

This reaffirms my thought that if no one remodels, each of our kitchens will be on the cutting edge at some point of the cycle.

It makes me cringe when I hear people ripping out SS counters and/or cabinets because they think they're institutional or for a restaurant. I'm guessing these people like their kitchen to be the 'heart of the home' and feel all nice and cozy.

My grandpa and dad had a metal fabrication business in our basement, and I will learn how to weld soon. I also loved my years working in restaurants so I view a kitchen as an actual workspace much the way it used to be viewed by our grandmothers.

I love SS counters and the patina that they develop. I would have gone for that but dh shot it down. Such a great option for practicality and cost.

I think the porcelain slabs will become a popular finish - very modern look that has so many applications and options. Personally I would love that in a concrete look.

I do think the translucent stains are picking up steam. We're trying for grey-stained oak and I have some awesome inspirations photos for grey stains.

Because wood floors are becoming popular in kitchens as part of the open concept feel, people like me are looking for alternatives to woody cabinets - paint or coloured stains.

I think there will be a backlash against "too much wood" in the kitchen - that always happens when wood becomes very popular like it did in the 70s.

Its interesting how local trends can be. White kitchens may be ubiquitous and so are becoming overdone in many places, but here in our part of Florida I do not know a single person with a white kitchen. It is all dark stained wood cabinets still here--first cherry and now dark like kona and other brown/black colors.
We are doing a desk area in the kitchen because we will use it daily, and it is very important to me to be able to supervise children on the computer, and that is the only place where I can be cooking or cleaning up and still see what they are up to.
I also think SS looks very sharp with many types and colors of kitchens, especially white. And I really like the newer "brushed" SS options. More matte, not as shiny.

Skyangel - good point about the different SS finishes. My new Miele dishwasher has a beautiful SS finish - quite soft. The Samsung fridge beside it is overly shiny and is looking really busy due to window reflections.

I could see matte (not antiqued) metal finishes becoming popular - brass, anodized aluminum.

Brass *definitely* is back as a trend but it's being taken in different directions.

Lot's of good information here I hope new remodelers take heed of this and not waste money on dated items. Remember we aren't as progressive as europe so what may be in there does not apply.

Hardwood floors are gorgeous but I can't help but wonder if the trend will end up swinging back the other way, to flooring that isn't damaged by water.

I could just see that after the aesthetics wears off and too many people are having to rip up their flooring (which also means their cabinets) to remove hardwood flooring that was destroyed by water, they might want a flooring option not so susceptible to water in a room with a lot of water.

On the hardwood floor, the trend may definitely switch. But I have original to the house hardwood flooring in my kitchen. It's been there since 1926. So I don't think there's a functional problem with hardwood floors in the kitchen.

I would guess that the trend away from wood flooring came, not just because folks were tired of the look and attracted to new finishes, but because of the maintenance -- stripping and re-waxing (true also of original linoleum; I remember that was a huge selling point for the new vinyl floors). I can remember my mother having to do that -- thank goodness for polyurethane!

My house was originally one room which is at least 170 years old and is now the dining room. It was a one room house for many years and then had two more rooms built on (now a bedroom and living room) when it was made into a post office well over 100 years ago. The wood floors could use a refinishing, but even in a farm community they look great (there is still beautiful shellac in the corners). There is linoleum in this kitchen now which was build almost 50 years ago, but I would not hesitate to put in wood. The only finish I would use on the floor though would be shellac which I would mix myself.

While I think a lot of the new stainless and other metal finishes that are coming out now (in different patterns and colors) are very cool, I think those are the things that will look dated. I think it boils down to what do you truly love. I truly love industrial because I spent so much time in my dad's metal shop and the warehouse where he would pick up his tools. I love metal, concrete, old wood. I am an archivist after all, and to me those things will never be out of style.

We may not be as trendy as Europe ): but my observation is that trends move from Europe to the east coast, then west coast, then between the coasts. Also, don't forget the trendsetting by IKEA, which is definitely European inspired.

The only trend I've seen go the opposite direction is the big refrigerators and AC.

My fridge and DW have the less shiny stainless. I used to think it was a negative, but now it's become a plus. WIN!!!

I have a hard time imagining hardwood floors falling out of favor. Maybe the stain color or specific look (e.g., handscraped).

Iowa, I love metal, too. I find it every bit as earthy and natural as wood.

I think the next big trend in kitchens is the unfitted look. It's starting to appear in decor media here and there (esp. blogs) and it's different enough from the prescribed kitchens we're used to seeing that it's being picked up by those who want something that's unique. And then unique will be followed by popular, and popular by common...

There is something to be said for functionality. Our bathtub has the 90s era platform and stair around it. It's very difficult to get into the bathtub easily even for fairly agile me. It was the trend good back then but was that arrangement ever that functional? Before that sunken tubs--how did people get into those? I saw one 70s or 50's sunken tub and can't imagine how people got into it. I'm also wondering about the new style of stand-alone bath tubs. They look great, sure, and finally something easy to get into (are they?) but where do you set down your novel, washcloth, phone, etc? You need a little table, so now you have to have a table in the bathroom?

Yes, the desk. It's like 3 feet from the kitchen table which looks out over the koi pond and garden through a big window. We prefer to sit at the table with a view instead of at the desk with no view. Designers who can think through things like that--who know what choices most people will make about where they want to sit, and who think about how to get into a bathtub, not just how it looks--seems likely they can create very timeless, functional spaces.

beautybutdebtfree:

I'm flattered you used one of my pictures to make a point in your third post, but you really shouldn't have deleted the caption: "Gobs of polyester will not hold up sinks, especially when no silicone is applied to the flange."

The picture shows sinks that were bonded with polyester between the sink flange and the bottom of the top which is not a waterproof material, as is silicone. Polyester is easily degraded by water, silicone is not. That's why fishtanks don't leak.

I've never heard of silicone not bonding to silicone. I've done it many times and have never had a callback. In fact, the recommended adhesive for bonding silicone substrates is silicone: http://www.masterbond.com/articles/silicone-elastomer-systems

Here is a link that might be useful: Sink Failure

My point in posting the picture was not the "sealant" (which in this case is actually stone adhesive) used, but what happens when there is seal failure, so it didn't matter what the sealant was. The point I was making was with seal failure you get moisture infiltration into unsealed, porous stone, and mold/biofilm growth (slime in the crack and into the stone).

Silicone will weakly re-bond, but it is a low percentage of the original bond strength. I would guess folks with seam failures that have called out a repair that is AGAIN failed after the SECOND failure often do not call back the SAME repair person. This is not to say there are not long-term silicone seals if there is non-mobile support under the sink. But let's be real, there are a whole lot of installs out there designed to last only past the warranty period, and it's buyer beware. It's a real treat when one gets a professional who doesn't skimp and does things right, but this is probably the case in half or less the cases out there, unfortunately.

Regardless of the sealant used, the fact that the underside of stone is porous remains, and the fact that gravity is working against you every time you weight up the sink remains. And the fact that every time you fill a sink with hot water there is a differential in thermal expansion between the sink and the stone planes remains (which is why pure silicone is the only suggested sealant for undermount sink seals, as it stretches over the planes moving better than other sealants). The numerous gizmos being sold to hold up sinks itself should suggest to folks there is a reason WHY there are so many products being hawked to make a sink suspension "fail proof."

This post was edited by beautybutdebtfree on Tue, Apr 22, 14 at 21:12

beautybutdebtfree:

We agree that seal failure results in water penetration into stone causing mold and biofilm growth.

There is only a seal failure when sinks are not properly mechanically fastened. The pictured sinks had no mechanical fasteners and no proper sealant between the sink flange and the bottom of the stone. A properly sealed and mechanically fastened undermount sink will not fail.

The fact that there is a difference in the expansion and contraction rates of stone and steel is one of those theoretical truths that has no practical meaning. The hottest water from the hottest kitchen faucet/pot over a long period is never going to be enough to make any substantial movement between stone and sink flange matter.

The bond and re-bond strength of silicone is also irrelevant. With proper mechanical fastening, the silicone acts only as a waterproofing gasket; bond strength is a bonus.