I can't help on the pricing, but I can tell you that notching the drywall and slipping the granite in is a common way to handle bowed walls. We had one 6' stretch of counter that was bowed almost 2", and that's how they handled it. The templates were labelled "leave long", and on installation day, they cut the drywall and trimmed the piece as needed (in our yard) to get a nice fit. They told us this was the plan when they templated.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Different granite places charge different ways. Some make you buy whole slabs and thus you pay for the wastage, and some charge you just for what you actually use. Do you already have a signed contract for the granite? If so, I would make them honor that contract, specifically if it says that you only pay for actual usage. Don't let the KD bully you into signing something different. If they're claiming that your actual usage is higher than the original estimate, then I would demand the details from them.

We are still in the "quote" stages for our granite. Our KD wanted us to use her preferred fabricator exclusively. We are still getting quotes from other fabricators, as well. She doesn't know that yet. I sometimes wonder if these KDs have little side deals going on with their recommended contractors.

$1,300 is a lot of difference to you. Trust me if it was coming out of your KD's commission, she'd be slogging through that paperwork pronto!

I am totally impressed with your detailed analysis, but bottom line is, if you have a signed contract with a price, and nothing in your plan was omitted or changed, I don't see a justification for the overcharge. I do know that I've been told by fabricators and friends who've had granite installed that the cutting often adds a lot to the final price and that actual square footage is not a predictor of final price. For example, our estimates went way up when we switched from a Blue Star cooktop (where the granite would just end on either side) to an induction cooktop (for which they will have to do a cutout all around, as for a sink). That being said, those two diagonal cuts for your bay window don't seem to be a $1300 job. If that is the reason, your KD should be able to tell you that (or maybe she doesn't want to take the hit for having "forgotten" to include that in the template plans).

It may be that you will have to do the detective work here and get copies of the all the paperwork and/or contact Granite Source directly. I would tell the KD that, if she is unwilling to figure out how 87 sq. ft. magically became 106 sq. ft. you're going to have to do it, and that it will take however long it takes. Has the KD gotten all her commission yet?

I'll just respond to your 1st question. I had read so much about templating for granite, etc. So you can imagine my surprise when my fabricators showed up with nothing more than a tape measure and a square, paper and pencil, (maybe a level, can't remember). I was nervous on granite installation day. But let me tell you, my granite fits like a glove! They even perfectly notched out a piece of granite to fit around a door molding. Since my home is 25 yo, one wall was bowed and there was a 3/8" inch gap at one end between the granite and the backsplash area. My tiler filled that area in perfectly. After the granite installation, I had only one little paint touch-up to do and that was it. They had actually taken my sinks with them, so they fit beautifully as do my faucets. I think they spent about 1/2 hr measuring and less than an hour installing.
If you have seen your fabricators work and are happy with it, it will turn out great. Seems to be different methods for templating granite, can't judge the work by the tools, I guess

To question #1, what you are describing is exactly how my installers did it. I asked about cutting into the drywall, and they admitted that some people prefer that method, but it is messier, takes longer, and they dont do that. Mine turned out perfectly, and I'm actually glad they did not want to tear into the drywall.

As for question #2, if you had a signed estimate or contract, and now they are changing those numbers on you even though your order did not change, then I'd tell them they either honor the agreement, or you'll go elsewhere for the work. Sounds like they are being slimey, and your KD is being lazy telling you just to pay for it!!!!! Is she your advocate, or theirs? Why hire someone like that?

You signed a contract for X, and now they want more money?

Sounds like your KD owes you some legwork.

I hate to say it, but this sounds like more of the same rigamaroll you got from this KD when you had all of the measuring and other issues.

She doesn't want to do ANYTHING extra for you. $1300 is a lot of additional money with without some detailed level of explanation especially if its already been spelled out in a signed contract and there have been no changes to the specification.

Knowing your history with this KD, I BET she forgot to tell them the bay window was to be included and now she's trying to get you to pay up by snowing you with complaints about wading through the paperwork. Seems "unlikely" since you calculated the same amount has contracted for, but still....

I wonder if your stone has veins or movement that has to be taken into consideration for matching seams and therefore more stone is needed? Just a thought.

I don't know what's up w/my KD...she seemed to have come around and we were working just fine together and then this came up!

I'm holding my ground...nothing will happen until I find out WHY there's a $1,300 addition to our cost. As to the "contract," cost, the granite is an "estimate" until measurement since they say they can't know what the actual cost is until they measure. I can respect that...BUT, now tell me why it's $1,300 more...I want details!!

Davewg...I'm guessing you're right...that while she had calculated out the square footage including the bay window, she probably neglected to tell them the square footage included a bay area w/2 diagonal cuts...but it stills seems excessive to me for 2 diagonal cuts!

JB1176...our granite is Absolute Black Premium...no veins or movement to worry about!

Are you measuring individual pieces in your first diagram? Our island had a shape like that and was done with one piece. No small extra pieces were used to create the shape. Could that be the difference?

Just talked to my KD...she's going to make a copy of the paperwork from the fabricator and I'm going to pick it up this evening and my DH and I will go over it this weekend.

My KD is complaining that she has to cancel next week's installation and that we may have to go to the bottom of the list and that it may be a 2-week wait now...but I told her we've waited this long, I don't mind waiting longer if it means I find out why we're being charged $1,300 more!

I can be very stubborn and will not budge when I'm provoked...you'd think she'd realize this by now!!! :-)

I don't have any answers to your questions, but I did want to lend my support. Hang in there. $1,300 is a HUGE difference. I am frankly shocked that, after everything you have been through with that KD, she still has a job at Expo. I agree that this sounds like she's trying to cover another one of her errors.

Buehl -

Keep us posted. We're pulling for you (again).

I'm guessing the problem is a mix of what everyone has said - but I think fault lies at the feet of the KD.

We met w/our KD. She decided to look at the details before she met with us after all. She compared her numbers to the ones the fabricator sent to her and apparently the extra cost is due primarily to the "scrap". Contrary to what the fabricator's templater told me, they do charge for scrap...and they don't give it to you either.--and we have more than usual b/c of the corner sink & the bay window. They charge you for rectangular pieces, so we're actually paying for:

* the extra 18" depth on the entire length of our counter at our window rather than just the extra 18" depth in the bay window.

* one of our corners has a sink and they don't do seams near corner sinks...so the seam is approximately 2' away from the corner, leaving quite a bit more scrap than usual. (My KD is going to try to get this scrap piece for us, b/c she agrees that it's a rather large piece (~2' x ~3') and we could make a table or something else from it. But, she cannot guarantee it since the fabricator apparently doesn't usually let customers have the scrap.)

They make you pay for the scrap and then they won't give it to you - why, so they can sell it again as remnants, tsk, tsk, tsk...

Just curious, does your contract address this issue?

When our fabricator "measured," he just took some white boards and shoved them against the wall.

He was probably either creating a 'storyboard' or 'ticksticking'. If the ends of the boards were pointy, he was ticksticking. Both are methods of transferring measurements very accurately without having to 'read' measurements on a measuring tape.

Thanks ChuckG. Our "contract" was an estimate only, not a final cost. As to already being fabricated, it has not. They will not cut until all costs are signed off on.

The costs that were "locked in" were how much it would cost to cut a hole, cutout, polish, etc...not the full cost based on the square footage and configuration since they said they wouldn't know that until they measured the kitchen...and they don't measure until all the cabinets are in and ready and just before granite install...no more than 2 weeks before install is planned. (Which makes sense since until the cabinets are in and ready you can't get a true measurement.)

Here is how I calculated how much our countertops would cost based on negotiations with the stone yard and fabricator.

1. Estimate the number of slabs you need. More are needed if you want grain continuation on highly figured slabs. for absolute black this is not a concern. Lets say you need three slabs - each 5 x 8 = 40 sq ft x 3 = 120 sq ft.

2. absolute black runs about $10 - $12 per sq ft in socal = $1440

3. COst of fabrication is based on finished sq ft = 87. lets round up to 90 sq ft. We paid $30 per sq ft for a very complex install with floor returns and varying thicknesses of the built up edge. fabrication and installation = 30 x 90 = $2700

4. total = 1440+ 2700 = $4140

5. you can reduce this significantly if you go with prefabs (bullnosed) because absolute black is available as prefab. I would guess about $2500 but you do have those triangular corners which would require additional labor with prefabs.

6. we also got all our remnants back. we have used one in the aquarium back. the rest are awaiting other projects.

I never got a quote for scraps and had been refused to get the extra - our fab. had to buy two slabs and we didn't have to pay for the extra even they they only needed 1/4 of the second - they kept it and if we wanted it we could buy it... there are too many granite shops around - I know you want your kitchen done, but I'd shop around if they are being this difficult upfront.

Sorry to hear you're having this trouble.

It sounds to me like maybe the KD spoke with the granite folks and they "agreed" on a reason to present to you to cover the KD's butt. But you'll never know.

As many others have mentioned, there's a glut on granite out there. Shop for it, bargain for it, ask for a cash price, go back with a counter offer *no pun intended...LOL*

Does your contract specify a sq/ft $price? If so, I'd want to see their measurements. Square Feets don't lie :)

Really sounds wiggy to me.

Jim

Buehl,

I haven't had the time to double check your measurements for your counter top- but it does seem reasonable that they charge you for the complete rectangle of granite they need to cut out for the bay window (as far as the material cost goes). I have a problem though when the fabrication costs are added per sq foot for sq footage that isn't being used.

That's #1

#2 is it IS totally unreasonable to charge you for the granite, and then not let you keep it. Period!

Definitely ask for a detailed breakdown of costs- have you seen the work of these fabricators? That was my biggest mistake so far- and we are now waiting for granite install #3, not sure if you're aware, but they are going to take out ALL our granite and redo it over. I'm getting a totally new granite this time. I can't even begin to contemplate if there will be any damage to cabinets, etc.

Since you are already being presented with difficulties, proceed carefully, and don't let your nitwit of a KD bully you. Better to delay a few weeks now, than be stuck with even worse problems later.