I have the same problem with my kitchen. sink at north, range at east and fridge at west with island (10 feet) between east and west. I also disliked this idea but really think the solution for me was to put a mini refrigeraor opposite the range for all the range needs. IE eggs, cooking preps etc. I think this will work for me. I can also use it as a fruit fridge and save up valuble space in my built in. I do not have the option to make two islands. I don't see it either with your island size. Hope this helps...

Zones have supposedly replaced the old triangle, but an island that bars you from getting from one essential element to another in your kitchen is not good. The way I see it, the triangle has often changed from fridge/sink/stove, to having the cleanup area a bit outside the cooking work zone and often using a prep sink to create a new triangle of fridge/sink and prep/stove. This makes for some challenges in making the fridge also available to a possible baking area, and easily accessible for people not working in the kitchen...So they can grab a beverage or snack without walking through the cook's workspace. In my view with zones you may have a few triangles so that people can work from different areas and access the same crucial elements without walking on each other. I hope that makes sense. I know what I'm saying, but not sure I'm communicating it clearly.

Will the island have a prep sink? Depending on how the aisles are situated that can help with having an island that potentially blocks.

Can you post the plan?

IMO, the *worst* barrier islands are between the sink and range, because that's a work path that's used all the time. Fridge to sink is also an important work path, though probably a bit less critical. The frequency of fridge to cooktop directly (bypassing sink) would probably depend on your cooking habits.

Posting a floorplan here would really help. As Buehl suggested, depending on the exact positions of the island and appliances, it could vary from 'acceptable' to 'awful'.

Another possibility to consider is if a prep sink in the island would alleviate the work-flow problems.

Ok. I'm going to try to figure out how to post a pic. Please be patient with this newbie!

This is exactly why I don't have or want an island! I like to fly around my kitchen unimpeded too much to have an obstacle. I also like the open feel.

Your kd is right that the work triangle idea has gone by the boards but that doesn't mean you should have a 'barrier island' as buehl so aptly put it. Maybe you can rethink/redesign the island to make it less obtrusive. Can we see a pic of your design?

Thanks for the input. "Barrier island" is the perfect term!

Here's a picture. (Hope this works.)

One option here is to put some undercounter refrigeration on the stove side of the island to create a "micro triangle". However, I'm worried that I'll always be going back and forth trying to figure out what's in which fridge.

The other option is to move the fridge onto the end of same wall as the stove. This would give me a tighter, better triangle, but I will lose the "pass-through" window to the screened porch. But I'm sort of leaning toward this option.

Thoughts?

{{!gwi}}

jenniep, your architect may have 'read' that the work triangle is dead, but for some of us, it just works so much better than zones.

Tell you what. Ask your architect if s/he cooks. How often, and for how many people. I will bet you a dollar that your architect is not the primary cook in the household.

Trust your gut on EVERYTHING in your kitchen. If you are the one who cooks, put it together the way YOU want it.

Frankly, your layout with the fridge next to the desk does not leave any landing room next to the fridge on the kitchen side, and that's not good. I'm not counting island because it is really needed NEXT to the refrigerator. Is that hallway between the two pantries fixed, or can you move it way south- and move the refrigerator way north?

i think zones are as good a way to go as the triangle, but i don't really see zones in that layout.

that layout wouldn't work for me. besides the stove and fridge being separated by the island, i also don't like the fridge being behind the seating area (very little room there when someone's sitting and fridge door is open) and the already-mentioned lack of landing space near the fridge.

i know your sink is centered under your windows, but i'd push the dishwashers/sink bank towards the corner a bit and then relocate the fridge to the wall between the pantries and sink. that'd give you landing space and a more direct path from the range. i'd also round out a couple of the corners on that island so as to allow for better flow.

it also seems like you have just a ton of pantry storage space. which is great, if you're not wasting space that could be better utilized. if you want to really go with zones, you could consider making the smaller pantry your "cleanup/storage" zone and put a dishwasher/sink in there and use it for china and glassware storage. something like a butler's pantry.

i need some more inspiration to tackle this design boo boo
(coffee and pain pills...darn this stupid wrist!) but initially heres a few random thoughts dh and i had...

huge and wonderful space to work with!

disasterous design! worst than you thought really. lets think about making eggs...with the fridge oriented as is,
you have to take the long way around barrior island to get to the stove wuth the eggs because the door will block the sink side. gosh i hope no one is sitting in the chair by the fridge...bang goes the door into the chair back! ok hands full of milk, eggs and appologzing to the chai people who all have to scootch in so you can get by you get to the stove and drop....dang forgot the cheese!!! everyone scootch in cuz here i come!! yuck yuck yuck!!! horrible design with no flow!

i'd love to play with the design but can't do it without dimensions :) do you think you could share those? and btw wheres the dining room??? and whats over on the other side of the kitchen by the fireplace???

Actually, in that space, and with a desire to keep the pass through to the patio, I don't think that fridge location is bad at all IF you put a set of refridgerator drawers in the island for veggies, butter etc that are used constantly for cooking.

Unusual or items that are used once (ie meats) can be unloaded from the main fridge onto the island and then prepped for dinner. Butter, veggies, milk etc can live in the fridge drawers for easy access.

I don't think the plan, as a whole, is quite what I'd call disastrous, but the fridge location is bad. I like edlakin's suggestion, but would prefer it or fridge drawers, as Alku05 suggested, closer to the stove so you're not passing by open dishwashers and past someone working in the cleanup zone to get things. I would also decrease the island depth so the seating has a better aisle behind.

Personally, I'd put (hide) my desk in the smaller pantry and make use of the current desk area for the kitchen...If you did fridge drawers, it'd be a good place for an all-fridge and all-freezer, or if you moved the fridge, wonderful and great-looking dish storage. You have generously sized range, pantry, and kitchen, but I'd be worried about enough fridge space with the 36" fridge. I find myself short on storage for serving dishes and glassware, so I'm sensitive to that also.

I wouldn't do your architect's proposed layout, for all the reasons Igloochic described. The triangle is not dead, it's been replaced by multiple triangles. I found the zone concept to be very useful, but you still need to consider flow.

Our current kitchen has a walk-in pantry with our refrigerator in about the same position as yours, which centralizes all your food storage in one location, very handy. However, we have our range & sink swapped, compared to your drawing, with a prep sink in the corner of the island, closest to our range & refrigerator. Even though we have a large kitchen, this sets up a short triangle between our food storage (dry & cold zones), hot zone of range plus wall ovens (where your other pantry is), & prep zone on the island--no barrier. Our big sink (where your range is drawn) forms our cleanup zone, and the island on that side can be used for plating or a buffet.

With your windows, you may find overhead venting a problem if you put the range there, but you'd get better work flow, especially if you can add an island prep sink.

How often do you think you'll use the pass thru? We had one in our last kitchen & never used it.

If you absolutely want to retain the big sink, range, & pass-thru in your layout positions, then I'd add refrigerator drawers on the range run, and move your main R/F down for better access from the public side of your kitchen.

I think I would do without the pass thru. I'd find 2 fridges kinda overkill. I wouldn't be able to keep things straight...i.e., what is in what fridge. I also personally wouldn't want a fridge I had to stoop to get into.

That's the layout we've got, and it works fine!

Depending on style of fridge, you may prefer to use the island as your landing zone (I do). For me, the fridge-to-sink path is the one most traveled, and I don't have any problem with the distance (room is 15' wide along window wall).

I resisted this layout, but it was really the only one we could use--and it's great. The only thing I would change is maybe expanding the island, and maybe setting the window off-center to have more prep space between it and range. I never use the island for prep.

I meant "setting the SINK off center..."

It's hard to tell because we don't see enough of the plan to know where all the entrances and exits go and we don't know enough about you, the way you cook and your family to make worthwhile suggestions ... consider yourself warned, because I obviously am going to go ahead make suggestions without knowing anything.

The zone idea is that from a cooking zone, you would be able to access everything you needed to cook - the prepped veg, meat, egg, bean curd, water, drain, strainer, pots, pans, baking dishes, the broiler, the wok and a chan.

Or imagining pancakes is a good exercise. Where are the eggs, the flour, the wisk, the baking powder, or perhaps the package that says "pancake mix", the bowls, the spatula? Where will you keep the griddle or whatever you make pancakes in? If its electric, where will it sit? Sausage with that? Want to add a few berries and a dip of whipped cream? Look at the plan and make pancakes, how many steps will it be?

You have an interesting problem because all of your food storage(pantry and ref) is around the bend and across the room. It says to me that the kitchen is laid out wrong UNLESS you are a very organized person who will take a "shopping trip" to the food and pick everything up in very few trips. I'd start looking at ways to move the ref and move the prep and move the cleanup or perhaps even think of a completely different layout.

Possibly observations with reservations for the unknows:
---- I'd hate a kitchen without a direct exit to an outdoor cooking/entertainment area.
---- Your dishes and clean up area might be not in the best location. People need dishes and silverware all the time and need to return dirty ones and place in dw. It looks inconvenient where it is right now. Part of placing a clean up zone is figuring that out and how much access to the clean up zone you need from the cooking zone for getting dishes or pot drop off.
---- I am not seeing a coffee bar, alcohol bar, or wine stuff. If none of these are of interest to you, that's fine, I'm just mentioning it.
---- Tell dude that's a four seater island as the corner space can only be used by a diner on one side.
---- I know this will sound awful, but you need a five to six foot aisle between the island edge and the ref if the stools remain as drawn and it may still be kind of a pita to get some milk once the stools are filled.
---- I would hate the relationship between the stools and the cooking surface. From that cooking surface, you have a little north-south view, but unless you have eyes in the back of your head...

Wow! Where have you guys been all my life?? Or at least all during my planning stage?? This is fantastic!

So many great suggestions here. I am busily redrawing and rethinking. Will post revisions when I get back from a family outing tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all these great ideas!!

I see three different layouts, and I'm not sure which one the other posters are commenting on, but...

- IMO, an island can be a great landing zone for the fridge, but not if there's a chair in the way.

- A prep sink on the island makes for a great work flow from sink to island landing zone to prep sink.

- PLUS, a prep sink on the island means the cook can spend most of his/her working time there visiting with seated guests and looking out into an open area. Of course, if you never have geusts sitting there or the view isn't great, designate another area as your 'prep zone' and make *it* a beautiful place to work.

- The 42" space from the seating side of the island to the next item seems too tight for me. We mocked up ours and were comfortable with 48" -- but YOUR feelings are the most important in this.

- The 'remote' pantry and fridge situation is not a problem for me, but then, perhaps I'm more 'organized' than I think (good point BMore!).

- The 'May 25 option 2 plan looks pretty good to me if you put the prep sink back in the island.

- And the plan that puts the fridge on the range wall would also work if you shrink either the island or the depth of the cabinet behind the island seats to give you 48".

I had never had an island, much less an island with seating before. The best advice I got was to have as MUCH clearance behind the barstools as absolutely possible. Everyone I talked to said the same thing, "I wish I could pick up my island and p-u-l-l it toward me and get more room behind the seats."

Not only do you need clearance to pull a stool out, but it will stay out while occupied, and if your household is like mine, even after the occupant has left!