I actually like the kitchen, and love your pocket office. (It'd be really great if you could turn from your desk and have a wall of storage behind you, but there are always things we might want that won't fit!) The only problem I see immediately is the pantry door/oven door interference that someone else noted on the homebuilding forum, and you mentioned above. The oven looks a bit crowded there in the corner, but I'm not sure it'll be that bad in reality. Just to have it a bit less tight, I might consider a tall narrow cabinet between the ovens and the wall, but since it appears you only have a few inches that you might be able to move the fridge, you could put filler strips on each side of the oven stack to give it some 'elbow room.'

To get more specific and consider more about the kitchen, I think we need to know more: The size of your family and the type of cooking and entertaining you plan to do, are places to start.

I agree that your oven is not well-placed. You will have to make a 180 degree pivot to put down something hot that you've just removed. In other words, no good "landing place". That will be a pain and also unsafe. Also, you don't seem to have enough space to stand in front of the oven to load/unload it. Will you have to stand to the side? Have you considered putting the wall oven/microwave into the pantry? I am not sure if that is a big freezer chest that you already have and want to keep, but you could do a built-in freezer and fridge (maybe panelled?) where you have the refrig and oven now. Move the wall oven, microwave, toaster, coffee maker, etc. into the pantry. I also think that the area that the cabinet you now have to the left of the refrigerator will look strange from the hallway, and maybe you should end that line of wall cabinets at the column. Another possibility: you could extend the wall between the kitchen and the hallway one more "column" to the left and extend that bank of wall cabinets. Then maybe you could fit oven, refrig and freezer all in a line. Maybe then you'd have enough storage space so that you could avoid losing the window in the breakfast area. Also, I think it would look better to center your range on the axis of the great room, especially if you will have a center fireplace, but I can't figure out a way to do it. I suggest that you repost with just the kitchen/great room floorplan, specify your appliance sizes, and put more room dimensions it. Hopefully you will get more advice.

I've been looking at this some more and thinking. I have counter next to my oven, but always turn 180 degrees to put things to cool on the island behind me or the counter across the aisle to my side. Not sure why, but I've just never used the counter right next to it as landing space...I think it has to do with the fact that island has more room, and the other counter I spoke of is stainless, so I can set hot things on it. The point, though, is that turning around to set things down has never seemed inconvenient or dangerous for me.

The idea I had, which is related to astridh's suggestion, is that you could extend the wall where your fridge and oven are into the pantry area, even possibly creating a baking center in the process. This would pretty much open up your pantry, but you could still have a full wall of shelf storage tucked out of view on the upper wall. (I would leave that section of wall that's behind the stove wall cabinets, but open the rest where the pantry door is now) Hope that makes sense.

I like the whole house floor plan a lot! How many sf is it?

I'm no kitchen expert, but I have a few general comments.

I don't really like the oven/mw location very much at all, but I use my mw a lot - I would never put mine in a pantry. I would feel better about the oven/mw placement if the pantry door was a pocket door though. Like others suggested, it might be helped by scooting the fridge down a bit. Not only do you have to do a 180 degree turn, but the turn only gets you to the END of a countertop.

Whether or not the oven/mw stay there, I'd definately make the pantry door a pocket. But then, I love pocket doors!

I also like the little office, but I might put the countertop along the other wall, so you could turn and look out the window, rather than having the window behind you, which could also be problematic if you have a computer in there. I also might be tempted to do another pocket door from the little office into the adjacent bedroom. Then, that bedroom would be a lot more multi-purpose, and would be a wonderful office itself, with direct access to the kitchen.

Nice house plan! I'll bet it's wonderful to come in the front door, into that big open space, with all those windows. I think the kitchen is going to be a wonderful space.

another general comment - I don't think I'd like it if I had to go thru the master bath to get to the closet. Maybe that's just me though.

Thanks for the ideas.

rhome410 -- I had actually never thought of extending the frig/oven wall into the pantry. So no door the pantry? Do you think you could see in there to see all the storage of food and stuff? I'm not sure what I think right off, but I will consider that. What does a baking center entail?
I would have liked to extend the frig/oven wall other other way as well, but DH likes the open view into the kitchen from the foyer. He is very particular about an open feel.

Approx. dimensions:
**Overall kitchen is 12'11' width (up to where greatroom carpet starts) by 19' length
**Island length is approx 11 ft.
**Bank of cabinets behind island is 11 ft with space for a 36" range and 4 ft cabinets on each side of the range
**Frig/Oven wall is approximately 9 feet long with space for a 36" frig and standard oven size
**Pantry is 7' by 6'
**bfast area is approx 15x10

Our uses for the kitchen area
I love to bake and cook, although rarely do anything elaborate. I have two small kids (3 and 1). We have people over including extended family, sometimes for holidays but we don't have large families. Mostly we have friends over with their small kids and do barbecues and stuff -- very casual. We want a big open space (kitchen/family/eating area) to accommodate medium sized casual gatherings. We do not need a formal dining room -- we never use it. So I just tried to make the breakfast area larger so we could accommodate a larger rectangle table for when we need it. I imagine that as a family, we will eat most of our meals at the island.

Questions for you guys:
**Do you think the pocket office is too small? If so, I'm not sure how to expand it much without altering alot of things and costing alot. I would love to have two walls of storage desk, but that isn't going to fit into the current config.
**As was mentioned, I've seen in pantries where they actually have more counter and under closed cabinet storage and use this space for the toaster, coffee pot, mixer, etc... What do you think of this? And what do you think of having an oven in the pantry? I had never thought of what rhome410 suggested, but it is a thought? Ventilation? I still want some decent room to store my food and bigger appliances and stuff.

I will try to work up some drawings of the ideas I have in mind...But I have sick kids and my oldest with a broken leg, so I can't promise how fast it'll be!

A baking center can be as much or as little as you'd like. It can just be a storage center, or better, a place to store the supplies and pans, as well as use your mixer, maybe even a place to knead or roll things out. Having a sink nearby is nice, for when you need to add water or wash sticky hands. (Especially when your little ones get older and want to help and learn)

In the best of all worlds, I wouldn't want to disturb your walkin pantry, but I was trying to come up with something that wouldn't disrupt the whole plan.

Have you considered a pocket door to your pantry? It would eliminate the door swinging into the ovens, if you keep the current configuration. And there's the symmetry with the pocket door to your office/desk on the other side of that wall of the cabinets.

But I agree that the current oven location is not ideal. What if you remove the freezer and push the entry back (so the pantry is not as deep); then you can extend the cabinetry from the range wall around the corner and extend the cabinetry on the frig/oven wall enough so you at least have space next to the oven to put a cookie sheet or roasting pan.

The plans look great! Good luck building!

I was trying to sketch my idea, but I realized one thing...Exactly what bothers you about the oven location? Too far from the main kitchen? Too close to the wall? Too much conflict with a doorway? Before I can figure out where would be better, I have to know what I'm fixing. ;-)

But I'm off to take DD to the orthopedic surgeon, so I'll check back later! (probably TMI)

rhome410 -- well, I don't like the oven where it is b/c there is no counter on either side of it and it's smack in the corner by the pantry -- just doesn't seem very accessible. That is pretty much it.

Personally I find the house plans quite lovely..but the kitchen is well...a disaster :o( Typical architecht who does not cook. You NEVER NEVER NEVER put ovens in front of a door. Opening the oven is blocking the door, a major hazard. Think of the little ones in the pantry looking for whatever they're not supposed to be looking for...you open the oven...they run out...ouch!

The ovens have to move.

I feel like there is a lot of space being wasted in the kitchen overall. It appears to me that the sink is opposite the range, so you will be butting butts when washing up and cooking...

The microwave is tucked right up next to the sink, and where's the DW? (Which should be where the microwave is if you're going to leave the sink there).

A kitchen in a house like this is a central gathering place. It deserves it's own plans with the flow of the cooking process and the living process carefully thought out. I think you should take the plans for that area specifically to a KD and get some better input from them, and then post those plans here for us to pick apart :) A good KD is going to change those plans significantly to suit the house, and the home owners :) I see so much wasted space that could be used so much better...and I'm not a real KD...I just play one on TV :oP

I agree with igloochic. Architects want things to look cool (don't we all), but aren't too interested in functional specifics of laying out a kitchen. Your house is enormous and lovely and will be costing a bundle. We all know how much time is spent hanging out the the kitchen, particularly with the great room setup that you have. It is definately worth several hundred dollars to have a certified kitchen designer go over your plans.

Igloo, I think you were tired ;-).... That's the DW next to the sink and the micro is supposed to stack with the ovens...

I have seen a lot of kitchens designed with the sink across from the rangetop, and for a 1-sink kitchen without occasions with lots of cooks (and the way you describe how you want to use the kitchen), I think it should be fine, especially with the aisles you have. I feel there is plenty of room for your kids to join in when they're of the right age, and having the wall ovens separate will help multiple projects go on at once. It was in answer to your homebuilding forum post, I think, that someone posted photos of their kitchen that was set up much like this plan, and said how much they loved it? So, obviously, not everyone is going to agree on this point.

I haven't had time to experiment with Paint, or scan in sketches, but these are the 2 ideas I came up with, again leaving the main kitchen pretty much as is:
1) Remove all of the pantry wall except for the 2 ft section behind the counter next to the range. Then the ovens could stay next to the fridge with counter/baking area stretching back to the side wall and pantry shelves across the aisle (backing up to the closet).
2) Remove all of the pantry wall and wrap the counter around, creating a baking area there and having the ovens against the side wall. You could put a freezer next to your fridge and have pantry storage the rest of the way back, across from the baking area. This alternative could include a prep sink on the corner, where the counter wraps at 90 degrees, giving you more multi-cook/helper convenience.

If you don't want to give up the pantry (and I don't blame you), something has to give. You'll have to have less room to the sides of your range, or give up the centered position, in order for your ovens to be on that wall...Where they'd probably be most convenient...Or DH will have to give up some or all of that open counter facing the entry in order to shift the ovens and fridge over. OR a complete redesign of the kitchen may be necessary.

Just my two cents about the office (I'm so confused about my own kitchen that I hesitate to go there):

We built an addition a couple of years ago that included an office for me. The dimensions are 9x11 but built-in storage at one end reduces the usable space to 9x9.

The architect was all freaked out about that being too small. It won't be big enough, he said. It will be useless.

He was wrong. It could have been smaller. I have a built-in desk in one corner (about 3 feet on each side), a rolling file cabinet, two chairs and various piles of stuff. When our kitchen reno is done I'm moving a 32-inch-wide bookcase in here and it still won't be crowded.

I know it's bigger than what you're planning but I would have been happy with 6x6. And if it was smaller I would just be more careful with how the space was organized, like using the wall space more efficiently by adding more built-in storage or shelves.

The office is my favorite thing about our addition (well besides our new bathroom and two -- TWO -- walk-in closets; it's a 70-year-old house). I tell everyone I know who's building a house or planning an addition -- especially if they have kids -- that they should create a room for themselves, and just for themselves. With a door.

Good luck. Your plans look wonderful.

I think that kitchen design can be greatly improved upon. It seems like there is a lot of waste space, is that a hallway that runs between colums at the bottom of the great room for the entire length of the house? That is a huge amount of wasted space.

Assuming the basic kitchen floorplan can't be radically changed, I would reconfigure the line that includes the pocket closet, the closet and the pantry. Swap the pocket closet and the pantry. Then have the entrance for the pocket cloest be in the hallway (so the door faces the cleaning closet wall). That will give you an additional set of cabinets in the kitchen and will get rid of that horrible door sitation and will give you more room to place appliances.

How wide is that entrance into the kitchen where the peninsula is? It looks narrow. It should be at least 34 inches.

I hope Pabiabi doesn't mind me posting this from her album linked in the FKB....But it'd be nice if you had the room to do your end cabinets something like she has. You could put the micro in the bottom shelf of the upper, and since you are so short on space, have the oven in the base cabinet...Or put the oven stack on either end. If you left it where it is on your current plan, maybe leaving the door off the pantry so that anyone coming out of there could see if the oven door was open would limit any hazard? When I look at Pabiabi's freezer and imagine an oven there instead, as long as there's just a doorway, I don't think it'd be that much of a problem. If it was a busy traffic area, it'd be different, but the pantry is a dead end area without kids rushing through.

Pabiabi's looks similar to your layout, except that the sink in the island is her prep sink, with another sink and dish storage on the other end of the kitchen. BUT, with her range oven opening into the aisle, and with the unique dietary needs of different members of her family (at least 1 vegetarian), it would have made that aisle too busy for that to be the main sink, and I was part of the group that talked her out of having her main sink right across from the range. However, with your oven not in that aisle, and without the special needs she had that screamed for a 2nd sink, I think yours could work there. My sister had that layout in her last house, and loved that kitchen more than any other she's had. She, in fact, would give a lot to be able to replicate it in her current home.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pabiabi's kitchen on FKB

If you flip the double ovens and the countertop on the otherside of the fridge you have island landing space directly behind you.

What bothers me is your eating area on the opposite side of the kitchen from both the pantry and the refrigerator. Your children are young now but soon they will be getting things out of fridge pantry themselves and it's not an "ergonomic" (it's not the right word but I can't think what is) design unless they are going to the island almost exclusively and "prepared meals" are the ones being eaten in the breakfast area. If you flip the pantry and office that solves part of it but I would want to move the fridge too -- also where do you enter the kitchen with groceries because that would affect choices for me too.

In my last kitchen what I found annoying is when my helpful dh was trying to help clean up while I was still preparing and therefore he was in the sink and dw when I still needed to use the sink and the open DW blocked my access to my main prep area.

What I have tried to do with this kitchen remodel is look at my plans and then cook various meals and walk the pathways as drawn and then have someone else do what they might be doing at the same time and see how those paths work, how they intersect etc. That includes how you come in with groceries, where they land and the paths you take to put away pantry items and perishables.

hth

It took me a few days to find the photos, but here is a kitchen I was in a couple years ago that is similar to your plan, plus it also had a small project area, much like your pocket office. You can also barely make out a hutch-type thing between the island and the family room. It had posts at each end that went to the ceiling and created a nice definition between the rooms, plus the extra storage.

Just 2 thoughts--and not about the kitchen, though I love your little desk area that can be closed off! Bedroom 3 has soundproofing between the bath and the closet? I'd move the closet to the wall by the media room (non a walk-in)and use the closet space with it's window as a little sitting area--a child would love the "privacy" tucked out of sight. And I'd change the door swing on the master WC--that was the first hint I remember reading on GardenWeb--so that in the Extremely Rare instance of someone falling, the door can be opened.