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artisjoe

HELP! marvin infinity installation

19 years ago

I just had 12 Marvin infinity full-frame replacements windows put in my home... 1 is a triple, 2 doubles, all double hung.

They still have to be trimmed on the inside and the outside was trimmed using frame expander.

I think these are excellent windows but as everyone knows a WINDOW IS ONLY AS GOOD AS IT'S INSTALLATION.

I really need some expert feedback before monday. Help!

Here's the rundown... I was told I could only purchase the windows with installation by the Marvin dealer, a local lumber company.

I was told a 'crew' would do the install and that it would take no more than 3 full days.

I am spending nearly $8,000 for 12 windows with installation.

On this past wednesday one man showed up to do the install... he is supposedly coming back tuesday afternoon to trim the interiors.

I personally do not feel he is a highly qualified craftsman/installer.

I do not like my salesman but I have no choice... there is no competition selling this window in my area.

One question I would like answered is that it has ALWAYS been my understanding that you install a window with the sashes in the window. you don't take out the sashes and intall the frame, level it, then insert the sashes... ESPECIALLY NOT ONE MAN HANDLING 1 TRIPLE THAT IS ABOUT 60" X 96".

I am seriously wondering if the windows have been installed correctly. One double was not level and in 'true' at many points. One of the upper sashes appeared just slightly askew, an 1/8 of an inch at least. The installer said it was the window not him.

So before he kept going I asked if he would call his supervisor and have another man sent to help him with the remaining triple and double... another salesman came out because the saleman I worked with was out of town. This salesman did assist him somewhat and watch him work... but again his process was to place the frame in w/out the sashes.

I know this post is getting long.

To get to the point .. I'm sort of being givin' the old 'emporer's new clothes' routine... the discrepancies in level and 'true' I'm seeing aren't there... any problems I perceive are not there.

To me there is only 2 ways the wrong way and the right way.

To me work is either level and 'true' or askew... whether an 8th or a quarter askeew... that is still not level and 'true'... theres no gray area...

the installer refuses to try to adjust or reset the windows that are askew...

and the finishing work with the frame expander looks really sloppy to me..

another contractor I'm working with even said so without me pointing it out... I would have had him install the widows. But as I said... I had to buy the windows with installation... and the salesman... I'm ready to hang... There is even a blue tag on the window sashs saying keep locked until secure in the opening...

Since when is a 'crew' one guy with a prybar?

How will bad install effect my warranty?

Once askew does askew just keep getting worse with time and season changes??

Can someone give me some opinions on how to resolve this situation? Why is it there is no craftsmanship, care, or accountability anymore? Just slap it in, Don't question me, Accept what you get and Give me your money....

Please HELP, anyone with experience I need some advice before monday roles around.

Comments (12)

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If you can find the Installation Guide on the Marvin Infinity website, you can read carefully what it says about installing the windows. This will tell you what is happening.

    If that does not help, call Marvin Infinity directly on Monday to ask them if sash removal is normal. Ask if that impacts the warranty.

    A final option is to stop the work until your answers and concerns are fully answered and addressed. It is tough to fix after everything is in, it is better to have everything done right from the get-go. You do own the house and you are paying for the job so you ARE THE BOSS although contractors like you to think they are the bosses. If your concerns are legitimate (and they sound that way), take charge and make sure they square up the corners.

    Good luck!

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you Calbay03. The problem is there are no install instructions available on the infinity website and no 800 number to call for help/questions. Infinity website is separate from the main Marvin site.
    Thank you for your suggestions though.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I don't see how you can do 12 windows with one man including trim in 3 days with tear out. We did 12 windows, which included heat gunning, rot repair and that didn't include trim and outside trim piece (we have to order that) in 5 days although we could have done it in 4, maybe three without the trim.

    Can one man do single windows? Absolutely, but doubles - NO. My husband easily lifted our singles in, but there is no way he could have lifted in doubles. Once they are in, it only takes a couple of screws, but I'd be worried about the lifting.

    We used regular Marvin's, not the infinity and we did it DIY. We heard bad things about their installs and the windows were about $8000 for the replacement so there was no way we were paying on top of that when they would not do rot repair or clean up the window framing. They aren't hard to install. I could probably do them on my own minus the lifting if I had to.

    I don't see an issue with putting in the frame without the sash but to get them level you need the sash in. Our neighbors used the install crew and there were several guys - something seems wrong with one guy.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you pcjs.
    The guy seemed to have no trouble with the singles it was the first double that was not level and true. but now I wonder about the skill any of them have been put in with. the shimming, for example.
    The salesman first said I could just buy the windows but when it came to really buying he said the purchase had to include the install. I would never have hired this installer on my own... bad vibes... and when one man showed up I was really concerned.
    Now I'm sick to my stomach. From what I have witnessed and know now I could certainly install one of these windows myself with a little help... I'm an artist so I know about craftsmanship and accuracy...
    I even asked that he put them in in one piece... but was ignored... I even helped him out by stripping all the interior casings to save him some time.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    One man doing a full frame replacement on 12 windows can easily be done by a skilled installer. Especially if he's using expanders and not bending aluminum on a manual brake. We do 12 full frame replacements in one day with two skilled installers all the time. Even with some minor repairs it's easy to do with two installers. We can only do this in the summer months when we have more daylight hours, not in the winter.

    Hanging the window frame with out the sashes isn't a problem unless he's completely setting the frame. He should temp the window in place and install the sashes. Ounce the sashes are in place he can then shim and level the window properly before nailing it down.

    I highly agree with Calbay on retrieving Marvins installation guidelines. These must be followed like a bible or he'll void your warranty.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Marvin Doublehungs

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks guy. I appreciate everyone's help.
    Part of the problem is these windows are Marvin Infinity fiberglass... They have their own website and there are no installation instruction .pdf files available there... there's not even an 800 number. So I have no way at this point of knowing about what voids the warranty.
    The frames have a great deal of give, more so than a wood window. For one guy to place a double and especially a triple aprox 60" x 90" without the sashes in place seemed risky to me and looked risky. That frame moves around a lot. One other thing I just thought about was shim placement... there are 2 holes in each side of the frames channels, top and bottom, for screws to go into the sidewall framing... shouldn't shims be placed behind those screwholes so the screw goes through the shims?? because that is not the case here...
    I don't get the feeling this guy is a highly skilled installer with a lot of experience with these windows. Infinity is a new product in my area only about a year or so.I think 2 skilled installers makes sense.
    Thanks again very much for all your help. It will make dealing with this Monday much better prepared.
    If you read my follow-up maybe you could answer this question:
    Can the frame expander be easily replaced after it has been put on??
    When he tried to make adjustments to correct the first DH that was not level and square, he bent/dented up the alum frame expnder pretty good and its very visible. He says it's too much work to replace it.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If anyone out there can give me more advice on this situation before tomorrow, I will be very grateful. Thanks

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    It is not hard installing windows and you clearly know it isn't being done right. We did ours and it was easy!!!

    Yes, the screws should be driven into the shims. That's how we did ours - if you don't it bends the framing and it will not stay level and will bend the framing. We have screws in three places - top and bottom with less strong screws and a tuffer screw in the middle - all provided by Marvin. We also put a shim at the top in the middle just in case the window shifts. Then foamed all around the window but we had less than 1/4 -1/2 spacing around most of our window to framing as my husband got such a good fit.

    Look at the regular Marvin website at the replacement windows just to get a basic window installation guide - it can't be that different.

    http://www.marvin.com/default.aspx?page=Ultimate_Insert_Double_Hung.sizes_specs

    If you aren't comfortable, ask for another crew (and crew meaning at least two people). I can't imagine one person doing big windows - we had normal size one windows and yes, it can be done, but when you are doing two-three a day, it was helpful for a two person crew.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Infinity dealers have very detailed instructions in their support guide. Request the number of your infinity regional representative. If you received a poor install then they may pull the account from the lumberyard if not corrected. This IS rare.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    So, how are the windows doing?

  • 3 years ago


    avtronic , you did note that the post was 15 years old, no?