I don't have a problem with the island size, and I see a decent cooking area, and maybe a place for the mixer and baking, but I don't see a good place to store your dishes like the others might have had? And the island is pretty much just the sink area, not a workspace or much of a place to roll out dough, etc. It seems like you had plans that offered 3 good, nicely separated working areas and this one doesn't have that. Sorry to say that it's not my favorite of what you've had.

I agree w/ rhome. I like the other plans better. What is it about this one that you like better than the others?

I have been watching your layout process. Very exciting.
This layout seems pretty. Islands are so popular. The
work triangle changing into mini work stations.

Do you prefer an Island to a pennisula (attached counter)?
Is this why you posted this layout?

This is the age old question of form vs function?

I struggled with this too. I had to keep my U shape
but deep down wanted an island.

Maybe you could make the Island fatter not wider.
The kitchen stools could be set back another 12 inches.
Could that give you lower cab space on the side
for storage?

I am looking forward to what others have to say.
I love the idea of an island, couldn't do it in my
space at home.

~boxerpups

Thanks for the responses so far.

Yes, I am really attracted to islands, more so than a peninsula, but I want something that works. I was really close with options 2A and 5, but they had issues:

Option 2a has lots of counterspace and storage, but it seem cramped. Not sure where to put trash, and the sink/dw arrangement isn't great (tried it with the dw on the left too).

Option 5 is lacking a true pantry, and after seeing a 3D view, we decided the partial wall looked weird and really wanted it to be completely open.

I like how the island idea makes it seems like a bigger area, instead of everything pushed to the side. I have at least 5 island plan that are possibilities, but I don't want to make everyone cross-eyed with too many plans.

I'm going to challenge you a little, so know that I'm trying to help, not trying to be negative:

You say that the sink/dw arrangement isn't good in 2A, but I'm confused as to why...Can you explain? It's either sink/dw or dw/sink and it'd be that way anywhere. Is it because the peninsulas are close on both ends?

You say that it (2A) doesn't have room for trash, but I need to point out to you that it offers 5 decently sized base cabinets, plus the tray cab and the additional one facing the table (total: 7), while the island plan offers 3 plus the trash (total: 4). They have approx equal uppers and pantry.

2A is the one I remember that offers you work areas beside the stove, and 2 large ones on either side of the sink.

Feeling spacious and looking pretty is nice, but it will be aggravating to have a new kitchen that lacks work and storage spaces. Have you mapped out where each dish, tool, and pot and pan will live in each of the new plans? (Remembering that as families grow, so do number of dishes and glasses, sizes of pans, and food supplies that must be kept on hand...as well as size and number of people who work in the kitchen.)

I want you to be happy in this kitchen for years to come. The impact of the look is nice at first, but it quickly becomes about how it works for you.

Wow- wanting to post when you can't is SO frustrating!
Rhome- I want challenge! All I get from my husband is "That looks nice." To answer your questions-

Yes the DW location concerns me because it would be so close to either of the peninsula legs. I've had that situation before and it's kind of a pain. I think it would be better on the left so it would be closer to dish storage, but I could not really access all the wall cabinets with the DW door open.

As for trash, it's not that 2A doesn't have room for trash, I just don't know where it should go.

I have thought about where things would go, but not too extensively since I have so many options I am looking at.

Buehl's "unprotected cook area" keeps ringing in my ears. ;)

A couple of other factors I have not mentioned that may be keeping me attached to an island:
I'm worried that the addition of the bar space will eat up too much space in the FR. Island pulls it in closer.

We're going to add a header (beam) where the wall is coming down to compensate for ceiling damage/soffits being removed. We have texture on the ceiling that can't be duplicated well, so they'll skim the kitchen side only. It'll also allow me to use the cabinetry crown just in the kitchen. ALL that to say, with our 8' ceilings, if I want to drop some pendants above the bar, would it look dumb to hang them from the beam? I don't like how it looks to put them in front or behind the beam.

Thoughts?

A couple of other

i like the island LO because people can get into the DR w/o going thru the work area. is there an other way into the DR?

it gives you a nice close work triangle - not long on steps (that's good to me). could you go with a single bowl sink?

tonight i can't for the life of me think of what BR is (the box by the back door). so don't know if that is good or not.

If the path in and out of the pocket door was a heavy traffic area, I might worry about 'unprotected cooking area,' but as you've said there isn't much traffic coming through there, I quit worrying about it.

In 2A you could go back to an L on the sink side so that you have a longer stretch and cabinets aren't coming back beside the open dw...Either end.

An idea for the island plan: leave the pocket door where it is and scoot the pantry and counter beside down that wall toward the family room/beside the island? I think you tried it before, maybe. But if you put the pantry toward the family room and the counter toward the stove, it could either be a dish area or a baking center...Or just make a grander pantry. One thing that worries me with the island plan is that it has the possibility of offering room for 2 to work on the stove side of the kitchen, but with the L, they might be nearly bumping bottoms (at a 90 degree angle to each other). If you take away the L and straighten that whole run, there might be room for 2...1 at the stove and to its left, and one to the right.

As far as lights hanging from the beam...Where would the wiring come from? You don't want to be drilling through a structural beam.

Just chiming in...

I like 2a - except for the following.

---would kill the second peninsula towards the table. Walking to and from the table space or to the family room would happen frequently and the peninsula doesn't add a lot to total storage or much to usable counter space.

---would shorten the total length of the sink side a bit so the aisle between the table and the sink side got a bit bigger. I think 4 feet between the table edge and the counter edge so a three foot aisle is maintained when no one is seated and at least a passageway exists when someone is seated.

---would completely get rid of the counter seating. In a already room full of chairs, why 4 more? I'd line the reverse side with enclosed and open wall depth cabinets for items that aren't frequently used, and i'd get a large work surface to the right of the sink. Plus, I find bar height seating to be very uncomfortable.

desertsteph- BR is a Bakers Rack. And there is another entrance to the DR, but when we actually do use the DR, it's through the Kitchen.

Rhome- You're right, there isn't any real traffic coming from that pocket door on a regular basis, unless you count my son on his tricycle.
I do have a layout like you mentioned, but wondered if it was less functional because it was separate small surfaces. I'll take a look. Oh, and the "beam" won't be structural. It's just being put up to divide the ceiling so we won't have to match the existing texture. I'm not sure how the wiring would work though.

bmorepanic- I also have the layout you discussed drawn. It is very open. I wonder if it is a waste of space since there would be almost 7' from one side to the other. I agree that I don't really need 4 seats at the counter but I would like at least two. When we have family over, it is actually all used.

In 2a (and 5, for that matter), the peninsula is important for providing a large expanse of workspace if a bi-level counter is used b/w the kitchen and sitting area and b/c the sink is in that same bi-level counter.

When I was designing my kitchen, everyone (here and my KD) initially discouraged me from putting in the second peninsula. However, I mocked it up and found that

(1) I loved the additional space even though it wasn't huge (a 24" cabinet + made the one against the wall 3" wider to 27").

(2) The extra couple of steps it took to get around the peninsula were not a big deal.

(3) I really liked that w/the second leg of the "U" it protected part of my work area...people tended to walk straight across instead of diagonally or veering into the area.

I'm not saying the peninsula is right or wrong, I'm saying that if you found, like I did, that it worked for you...stick with it. If it doesn't work for you, then get rid of it.

BTW...I'm still very glad I have the second peninsula! It's used a lot for staging things b/w the FR & Kitchen, as part of my Baking Center, for prepping when I want to visit with someone in the FR (usually my kids), and as the landing space for my ovens & pantry.

Looking at 2A, it appears you might be able to scoot the sink about 6 inches toward the upper corner, so it's right next to the corner cabinet, then you do have some space between the dw and peninsula already...Could you maybe scoot the peninsula another 6 inches toward the table so you can get more space? Because, like Buehl, I like what the peninsula offers you, and can see benefit in keeping the other end counter, too.

As for my latest idea creating smaller separated surfaces, I don't think the area right of the stove would really be that much smaller (in functional/usable space, especially when it comes to room to stand at it), and you'd get the other one as additional.

Actually, I'd probably do it this way, so the cooking area is protected a bit and the secondary work area to the side is larger:

I'm still torn, too, about more counter space or the opportunity to make the new area into a nice large pantry, which would take stress off the kitchen in a different and also important way:

Here is 2A with the peninsula scooted about 3 inches so it's even with the doorway, and the sink scooted next to the corner cabinet:

The above changes, plus reducing the peninsula, I think it may be 33" now? Or 30"? Can't tell for sure, but maybe reducing it 3 to 6 inches could get you what you need for the dishwasher area, as well as keeping the peninsulas

I personally don't like the idea of a sink in the island for all your cleaning. If you have guests, what do they get to watch...your dirty dishes! I think you should either have a cooktop in the island, with an oven near your pantry, and then the sink where the stove top is in your layout. you don't say if that's a window above, but I prefer looking out a window when there's a sink. If you are doing that "great room" look, it's more to bring the cooking action into the are, so a cooktop in the island is a good option. If you don't like that idea, you can have a prep sink in the island, if you have the room next to the pantry for a range, which is nice, because then you have all cabinets below the island for storage. good luck! Perfecting your layout is the best way to go!

Rhome- thanks for the ideas. Gives me some things to think about.
diwoman- The more I think about, the less I like the idea of the sink in the island becaise it just isn't big enough for prep work. I think that is how i'd like to use it.
I don't have a window near the cabinets. The closet one is at the breakfast nook.

ok, is this dumb for my space? I took a suggestion from Holligator, but I don't know if it works since I don't have a window above the sink. Not enough workspace, or would the island be the center for everything?

This layout is almost exactly like the layout of my old kitchen.

Quick question: to where does the door on the left lead?

The door on the left leads to the garage/ laundry room/ back door.

Did you like your old kitchen....or is it why you have a new kitchen? :)

"Not enough workspace, or would the island be the center for everything?"

That would be my opinion... Too little counter where you need it most and a lot of nice counter 'out of the loop.' Lots of dripping things back and forth to the island and everyone fighting for one work space. (Been there, done that in our last house.) I could go for it, probably whole-heartedly, if you had at least 3 ft between the stove and sink, but I'm afraid this would be too tight. Any chance of moving the back door? ;-)

Did you like your old kitchen....or is it why you have a new kitchen? :)

The most pressing reason for the reno was that our old pickled pink cabinets were falling apart. I did have some problems with the layout, one being too little counterspace on each side of the stove and sink.

We never used our dining room so we knocked down the wall between the kitchen and DR, made the DR larger and completely open to the kitchen so we would use it every day for family dining. We eliminated the table in the kitchen and made a much larger island with seating on 2 sides. Our kitchen is open to the family room just like yours.

Have you considered turning your table seating into a window seat/banquette? That might enable you to lengthen your island and put your sink and dishwasher there. I'd like to see the island all one level to maximize your workspace.

erikanh- sounds like I should check out your kitchen! Yes, I have considered doing the window seat- in fact I really really want to do it- just depends on the $$.

I'm no help with layout but I have an idea to help you hang pendants from a non-structural beam. Put up a beam, smaller in size than you desire. It doesn't even have to be pretty because after you run the light wires in place, you'll cover it all up with wood sheathing that you can stain or paint. Basically you'll have a box within a box. You'll either have to install lath strips between sheathing and beam to allow space for the wires or you'll have to route channels in the beam or the sheathing for the wires. You can drill holes in the sheathing for the lighting to hang down, although you might need to attach the lights to the real beam, depending on their weight and the strength of your sheathing. Does this make sense?

Actually now that I think about it, you can even build a beam box out of 2x4s, run your wiring and cover it all up with sheathing to make it look like a beam. No one but you (and your electrician and your carpenter) will know what's inside.

Thanks for the info Lisa!

The sink & range layout in your "Fri, May 29, 09 at 16:21" post is almost identical to our old kitchen as well...and it was one of the biggest factors driving the remodel. There was a constant conflict of workspace b/w the range & sink...the prime prep area/zone. It drove me crazy sometimes! It was also too tight for more than one cook even when someone used the table to prep (right side of pic) b/c there wasn't enough room for two or three people to be moving around in that area...and it was worse when we had cross traffic b/w the DR & FR/Foyer (although there wasn't much then as we didn't use the DR much...but it was a shortcut to the den/computer room & LR from the FR). Here's a pic of it...

I actually had more room on the DW side b/c of the "L". However...note the 24" + range + 24" + sink + DW + lazy susan + short leg of "L".

We even had the situation w/only 12" b/w the DW and short leg but it was never an issue for us...but that's us, not you.

Based on my above comments, you probably know how I feel about the latest layout...I think you'll have the a lot of the same problems we did and end up not being very happy with all the $$$ you spent on it.

Oh, and as to the range vs sink in an island or peninsula, I think we discussed this early on, but islands are not the ideal spots for either one. If you must have one in an island, the sink is better b/c of the safety factor as well as the amount of time you'll spend at the island (remember the 70% prep time, 20% cleanup time, 10% cooking time statistics). If I had to pick one to sit behind, I'd pick a sink w/dirty dishes over a range w/steam/grease/odors/etc. in my face any day! [Don't forget the aesthetics of a range hood hanging down in the middle of the kitchen...downdrafts don't work very well.]

Spincrazy25, Your kitchen/living room looks almost like ours. Here is what we are going to do. Center the stove on the wall behind the island. Put a prep sink in the island. Where you have your pantry, we are going to have our fridge. In the back corner, next to your planned pantry, we are going to put in an eatin corner booth, because between the kitchen and the living room, we are putting a wall with a doorway inbetween. On either side of the door, will be open see through arches. Where your eating area is now, we have a butlers pantry/laundry room planned. Not sure if you have a formal dining room, but if you do, can you play with the eating area and do something different? Our sink with be on the wall that separates the kitchen from the pantry. If you like, I can try and scan the plan.

yesapool- Sure! I appreciate everyone's ideas!

Just so I explore every option- I thought I'd post may last two island ideas. Thoughts?

Option a: I think the stove area is neat- but I wonder if having 18" and 24" on the side of the sink is too cramped. I could get ridof the pantry if it is otherwise a good plan. Plus: Not moving door or water.
Option b: not sure how I would use the space to the left of the pantry.

In A you have the same amount for the sink area that the island provides. :-) I'm more worried about the lack of space to either side of the stove and the fact that it's now in more of what seems like a pathway. If you could consider adding a prep sink to the island, I might really like it, though. Without it, the sink area is too tight, I think to use for cleanup and prep. Also if you added a prep sink, you could go to maybe a 30" single bowl main sink and get more counter space.

In B...The reason I moved the pantry to the stove wall in my similar plan was to give a break between the doorway and the stove, and provide a bigger work area on that end wall, which I envisioned as a secondary prep or baking area. It could also work as a buffet or bar when you are entertaining. I like areas that can flex to serve you in different situations. The way you have it, if you made it as long as you could without crowding the doorway, you'd still have a good work area that could fit your mixer, or your coffee area, or ?

With a prep sink I'm liking A, and it could be a great setup (for kitchen function and zones) if you moved the fridge down by the dining room doorway. The downside of that would be having people come from the family room past the stove to get to the fridge...There's always something...

You're right Rhome- there's always something. At this point I'm tring to figure out the lesser of the evils!