Can we see more of the layout so we can see what other rooms are adjacent and how the flow works?

Two things jump out at me. There's a 30" passage between the back of the couch and support post(?) corner of the island. Also, if you're going to have 2 sinks, I would much prefer the second sink (main sink) to be on the side of the island across from the cooktop and not around teh corner from it.

Rhome, yes, I will try to post more of the layout. It seems when I do, the picture comes out very small, but I'll try again!

Remodelfa, that is a good idea, does it seem to work better with the sink across from the range? I guess I was thinking "out of the way" so DH could be doing something while I was cooking, BUT, I forgot, there is another one he could use. (not used to the idea of two sinks)

Here is the house view. As you can see, I need help with the laundry layout as well. Anyone who has an opinion about that is WELCOME! It's a stressful job, and I didn't anticipate it being so!

Here's another view

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If I"m understanding the layout correctly there is a tremedous amount of wasted floor space in the kitchen. Is that a bathroom that backs onto the cooking run? Also, is that a fireplace on the west wall (bottom). I'm feeing like the couch placement is half in the kitchen. I LOVE LOVE LOVE open floor plans but think a better configuration is possible. I also just noticed you have a large sink (3rd sink?) at the bottom of the plan. And finally, are those little squares support posts?

You do seem to have miles of kitchen. I think I'd keep the workspaces, including the fridge, in one main area with one rectangular island, then maybe make the are where you show the fridge into a snack, beverage, or breakfast area...or just some great storage... with maybe a smaller table in front or something...So that area can be more multipurpose.

Remodelfa, yes those squares are support posts. And, I'm not sure where you are picturing the bathroom. There's not one anywhere near the kitchen. There's a fireplace in the family room in front of the couch, and behind the range area is another fp, in a living area that I haven't decided what to do with. :)

Rhome, would you put the fridge maybe on a different wall from the freezer? I'll work up a different configuration and see what you all think.

Thanks! I see that you both agree that I'm wasting floor space? I'll see what I can do!

What about putting the R/F on a wall with the sink in between? I took out the L island, but is the R/F wall too close?

After reading so much on here about drawers, I was trying to get as big island as possible to incorporate a lot of drawer space. (Plus an oven, but if I could find a place to put it in a wall) I'm trying to keep my current cabinets minus the peninsula. They are in good shape, and I'm thinking of just painting them and having a new island built.

This would allow a wall space behind the R/F wall for bookcases or something.

What do you think of this?

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I like this last layout better. WOuld you consider spliting the R & F? How about the frig almost at the end of the cooking run kinda across from the couch. It would open into the aisle space and you'd still have plenty of countertop to the right of cooktop.

OK...I don't think this is 'it', but it's moving closer.

What is the purpose of the sink in between the fridge and freezer? I don't think there's room to accomplish anything there, or even set much next to the sink, so I'm not loving that. I also don't think you'll be able to open the fridge door properly with it right up against a wall.

Some options would be:

-Put the fridge and freezer on the end of the stove wall nearest the table, then scoot the range down to the right, maybe make the current fridge area into a baking center with oven? (I would open the pantry on the kitchen side, not toward the table)

or

-Slide the fridge and freezer together and put an oven stack between fridge and wall.

3rd option:

Do you like the wall there for the craft area? If not, you could do this same plan with the fridge, freezer with a counter and sink backing on the pantry wall, with some great craft storage to the left of all of it.

Remodelfa, I'm putting a picture of the cabinets that are there now which I don't want to change unless I have to. that is why I have the range on the end. I would definately consider splitting them.

Rhome, your third option is kind of where I started, but with the L island. I have redone that plan with just the rectangle. See what you think. I like the idea of putting the oven on a stack next to the fridge/freezer.

The reason I had a sink next to them is because we have a LARGE water purifier (electro water) which has to attach to the faucet, so my thinking was to put that away from the main used sinks, and have my coffee machine there as well, so it would be handy for ice and drinking water, as well as the purified water for coffee.

I would like to open the pantry to the inside, but I thought that wall space needed to be used for the kitchen area.

Maybe seeing my cabinet run will help clarify my thinking. Or maybe we won't be able to use these cabinets, and then all heck will break loose. LOL

Here's the cabinets as they are now:

This is the end of that cabinet run where planning the range:

Here is the most current layout option:

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OH! I like this one alot! I didn't know you were reusing cabs... I can see why you want to. They're great and that makes this an even more fun challenge!

I didn't realize you were trying to reuse existing cabinets...or didn't make the connection from a previous post?

My point was that with the sink in between the fridge and freezer in that small spot, there wouldn't have been room for the coffee maker or anything beside the sink. How large a sink are you planning for this beverage area? Even where you show it in this last drawing, I would snug it over to one side of that counter, so that you have room to work and set things. Otherwise, if you're using, for example, an 18" sink, you'll only have 18" on each side.

I want to move your island out to encase the columns, but that would move it too much farther from the stove run, and I feel that aisle is wider than I'd like... I will have to look at this some more.

Rhome, what if I made the island a little wider? Would that help with the column issue?

And, as I was redoing the layout, it just occured to me, the reason for the L shaped island in the first layout try is because I have another issue with needing a column or wall where that block is on the end of the L island. There are water lines running down, and they supply the entire house, so I have to leave them there. A wall or post will have to encompass those water lines.

If the rectangle island looks better, I could put something like a knee wall from that post to sort of separate the kids craft/study area from the family room. What do you think of that option?

I will move the sink closer to the freezer, or do you think it would work better the other direction?

Also, I have that oven that needs to go somewhere, it's a Gaggenue, where the door swings outward. I was thinking of in the island somewhere.

Thanks!

OK, so a partial or full wall between the craft area and the fridge/freezer area makes sense because of the plumbing column. How large does it need to be?

The 3rd sink makes things a little tough.

I see you don't have an email option on your page, so if you email me through 'my page,' I could email you back, and you could send, if you're willing, your plan to me. Then I could play with it in my drafting software without having to redraw it all...

BTW, you don't have to always show the whole house when you post a plan. It'd be easier to see kitchen details if you show it up close, as you thought in the first place. I just wanted, at first, to be able to have an idea of how the rest of the layout worked around the kitchen.

What about working off something like this? There would be a wall behind the freezer.

The reason the island appears too close to the range area, and the freezer wall is weird, is because in this program, if I move the island over the columns, they disappear. I wanted to give a visual of where the columns have to remain, but in actuality, I can make the island incorporated with it.

That would give me a "small" alcove where the freezer and Fridge are.

Thanks!

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If your software has a CAD option, you should be able to draw lines to indicate where the columns have to be. It'd be much easier to figure out the plan if we can see things where they'll actually end up. Is it me or do the columns keep moving? They always seem to be in a different place and vary in number, so I'm not sure how to work with them.

Hiya, another set of eyes here.

Just wondering if placing that sofa on an angle would maybe make more sense (lemme guess, it is square to the TV, isn't it?). It just seems like this space might neatly split into two (well, three really) zones with less wasted space that way.

I think it does have a CAD part. I'll try and figure that out. The columns in this last layout is where they are. I had three on the L shaped, one just for decorative purposes. The column on the island can be moved some along that beam which runs parallel to the wall where the range will be. That's why it has appeared farther up or down. Sorry! I'll work on that CAD.

rubyfig, we actually have a curved leather sectional, so it can be moved in any angle. I just didn't have one as an option on the drawing program. (you would think!)

A try: The fridge/freezer alcove like mine that you'd wanted, and with the pantry opening on that side. I moved the columns by the island, but tried to keep them in line. There are only 2 sinks, but can you make the filter/faucet work with one of those?

I've been wondering how you've been doing on your redo! I really like the last LO here. the curved counter will give a bit more seating space but you could also do it straight from beam to beam and angle from those to the ends of the island. I think it comes down to taking a few more steps to get to the fridge in order to keep it and the frzr and your beautiful cabs - both of which you wanted to do.
I also think the living space behind the kitchen might make a nice quiet reading or nap area - or talking area if you and your dds/dils (?) want to visit while the guys are in the other room shouting at a ball game!

did you get the blowout at the back wall out to the patio done? post a pic if done?

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Wooaah, I didn't know anyone had responded since my last post! THANKS

Those are two very interesting layout options, Rhome and BMore

QUESTIONS: What could I do with that rectangle space behind where bmore has the freezer? AND, would putting the wall with the oven and frig block too much of the view into where the kids would be, while cooking? I'm really trying to visualize that. I'll try to put it on my program and see if I can get a 3D view.

Rhome-I like that big curved island, could I put the oven in it next to the sink? And, as with Bmores, I'm trying to visualize if the wall with the "kidsville". OR does it even really matter?

NOW, I have another question. I was reading a couple days ago and someone had a post about butler pantries. That really caught my interest because they look so "romantic". I started messing around with my design and I'm wondering what you all think of this idea. Where my pantry is located on the current layout, would it be stupid to make that a butler's pantry with the door to my bedroom IN the pantry? I'm seeing the butlers pantry with my coffee maker, a small sink with the filtered water, and cabinets for linens and things. Plus, it would be right across from the dining table, but I don't know if it would be a bad idea to put my bedroom door there. The water filter is an issue and maybe an explanation as to why I'm trying to incorporate a separate sink for it might clear up for yall "why" I keep going there. It is an older model, it's electrolized water, something my doctor recommended because of health issues. When we bought it, it was very expensive, and can't really afford to update because it is still very functional, and only 4 years old. BUT, it has a box which has to sit next to the sink, and two tubes that run from the faucet, with a separate nozzel for the filtered water. It's hard to explain, maybe I should post a picture?
My pantry as is now, is 6 feet wide. If I put 15" cabinets on both sides (maybe a little wider on the sink side) it would only leave a 32" walkway. I could possibly move the inside wall in a little, but I will have to ask about that because it is the original back wall of the house and I'm not sure about it being load bearing.
Then, I saw the "two island post", and I started fiddling around from there. But, I didn't want to lose a large pantry area.
I wish I could get the entire layout in a size that would be more visable, but haven't figured out how to do that with my program.
I'm posting what I have fiddled with, but it's not near what I think would be the great layout. So, I want to see what you all think.

Plus, now I have yours to contemplate. I'm leaving for Tuscon on Friday to visit my daughter, and will be back on Sunday, so there will be a little thinking time.

I love both your plans...

Here's my attempt.

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Sorry...Don't like the 2 islands and really don't like the entrance to the bedroom through the pantry...Especially since you won't be able to move things through that narrow passage into the bedroom. You could, possibly make more of a transition to your bedroom where I show the kids' table...Maybe a coffee bar or bfast area more appropriate as a link to your room?...Or just storage to create a nice walk through.

I understand your hesitation about the wall there and a view to that area...So do you think there'd be enough room to scoot their area out toward the family room?

OR...

Butler's pantries are usually between the kitchen and dining room, so maybe the pantry and fridge and freezer could be organized into something in that area to open up the kid space. Have to think about that...

Rhome, does it make any difference that I have double french doors going to the outside of my bedroom? I thought about that problem of being able to move things in and out. I do have large doors to the outside.
But, if they are mostly designed for between kitchen and dining, it really would be out of place, wouldn't it?

I wasn't too sure either about the two islands, especially with the awkward positioning of the two columns that have to be there. But, for a moment, that seperate island for baking only was intriguing. I like the curved island too.

They look really good in some kitchens, especially momto4kids, I love hers!
Thanks

Yes, inappropriate positioning between kitchen and bedroom. :) Mostly, it just doesn't serve any helpful purpose in that location.

I, too, love Momto4kids' dbl island kitchen, but they're arranged quite differently. One of the great things about an island is to be able to prep in a nice open area across from the stove, chopping one place, and turning around to cook it at the other...With your 2 island layout, you have no island in front of the stove. That's also the problem with my plan...the sink is directly across from the stove and I'd prefer them offset, so counter is in that prime spot.

I think, though, now looking past the 2 islands and the butler's pantry, I think you could adjust your latest plan to be workable...Put the island back together, make the butler's pantry back into pantry and reconfigure what is marked pantry, so you get your master entrance back in that area...Which puts us back to something close to the June 23rd plan.

You could maybe manage a 2 island or island and parallel long table plan, if you keep them running parallel to the stove wall, but it might crowd your couch area.

Here is another idea, kind of using both Rhome and Bmore's plan. I like the angled idea, but, I'm so OCD that I'm not sure the angle would *feel* weird.

Anyway, see what you all think of this idea and tell me why you think it would or would not work and what is wrong with it.

Thanks!

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It's hard to tell in 2D what it might look like or be like to use in actuality, but I think I'd either line up the 2 posts, or back the island off and make it shorter so you there is walking room at the top end of it.

Remember that you can't have the fridge right up next to the wall or it won't open far enough. Also, even though you can open the door of the freezer, it'll be difficult to access and get things out when the opening is toward the wall.

The butler's pantry thing still doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Did the post by the oven change places from where it was before? It seems to be a foot or two to the left of what it was. I thought it had to stay put and the others by the island could slide north or south.

What if you joined the fridge area you're creating with the butler's pantry area to be all pantry, including the extra sink and the fridge/freezer set? Maybe include the oven, maybe, as I think I'd prefer, put it on the end of the cooktop run.

Warning - ranting!

The island is too big (6+ by 12 feet) and the passageway to the dining area is too small for crowds like you have. The "butler's pantry" is too remote from the family room/kitchen.

You maybe accidentally moved the structural columns out of line with the structures being supported.

I am begging you not to let your current ref/frz rule this design - in the context of what you are doing with this remodel - they are peanuts to replace with nicer looking ones. Make somebody on craigslist happy and sell them. Having the ref so far away from cooking/prep is really annoying.

You've also moved the cooktop in the last plan, which is something you didn't want to do so you could use the current cabinets?

I don't think there's anything wrong with designing to use the appliances you want...They are the organs of the kitchen and having the right ones is important. (I didn't see anything about them being unattractive...I think they would be new?) I feel you are trying to fit things like a butler's pantry and an alcove like mine, and those just aren't fitting your space.

The op has stated their ugliness on the other thread. The one that you see in the pics above isn't staying. I can't tell who made them, but they look like an older version of the white twins.

The op keeps drawing the very remote/concealed ref/frz BECAUSE she dislikes the way they look. They don't matter to me - well except I'd send them out to painted and become peach or orange.

I wonder if that netting stuff they put on buses and some cars with advertisements will become available for refs, but have artwork.

Sorry...missed the ugly description. :-) I thought that since we weren't talking about the current fridge we see in the photo, that we were talking about a new pair of Twins. At least I know I didn't miss it here!

Rhome, bmore, I bought the all frig/freezer from a friend of a friend who were downsizing and didn't need them anymore. So, they are used, but look brand new, and are actually only 4 years old. When I put them in the house, I said, *WOAH* that's a LOT of stainless, for the look I really wanted. But, as far as usage, I LOVE them. And, I started seeing clever ideas of using them, yet hiding them, (ie: rhome's kitchen) and thought maybe I could do that somehow. They are not in a cabinet built around them as of yet, just in the area behind my bedroom, and DH thinks it will tone the look down somewhat when they are slid in cabinets built around them. I've seen them in other kitchen pictures, and they aren't that obtrusive looking in those kitchens.

I did slide the range down, DH said we could separate the cabinets and still reuse them, if I need the balanced look, but he didn't want to, if I didn't absolutely have to because of the time issue, the possibility of them not coming down without issues. (they are built in custom, and he's afraid they may not come out easily) That's why I haven't had them moved in any layouts. (I should probably keep it like he asked, and not create any MORE difficulties!) :)

The freezer door handle is actually on the other side, but didn't have that option in my drawing program. Still would have the opening issue as you all point out.

And I DID move that column. Dang. It isn't a support post, but water lines that run into the slab, so it would have to stay where it is. Didn't realize what I did. Sorry.

The oven. There will be two ovens in the range. The other oven was for convection/size. BUT, when visualizing, I wanted to move it away from the main cooking area and put it in something like a "baking center". My grandkids are always coming in while I'm cooking wanting to make cupcakes, cookies, something, while I'm working. I thought if I put it sort of out of the way, they could do that with their mom and be out of my way. I always make them wait, and then it's always either too late, I'm too tired, or something, and we seem to miss a lot of opportunities. They LOVE to be a part of the cooking.

OK So, back to the drawing board! By taking all those walls out, getting an extra 6 feet built on, I thought it would be SO SIMPLE! BOY was I WRONG!!

******What if you joined the fridge area you're creating with the butler's pantry area to be all pantry, including the extra sink and the fridge/freezer set? Maybe include the oven, maybe, as I think I'd prefer, put it on the end of the cooktop run.****** Rhome, I'm thinking about your idea. How I could do it.

In bmore's angled idea, would there be room on the back wall where the frig/oven is to build a shallow 12" bookcase to house my collection of cookbooks? That would be a cool idea.
And, trying to think of something to do with that triangle area behind the freezer. I'm going to post a picture of the way the walls are now, and get y'alls opinion of the way it "sticks out". I want to open up the kitchen, get rid of the peninsula, but am I really going about this the wrong way? Maybe more eyes will help me see what I'm not seeing.

This is taken from my kitchen sink, the laundry room behind that desk area where the water lines are on the desk wall, the support column at the end of my peninsula.

This is how it is currently with the wall moved back, and the dining wall down.

I put more current pictures on photobucket, but didn't think I should load too many on here.
Thanks for your help

How about this...Can you post a layout of what it looks like right now...so we might be able to get a fresh look or start new?

Other things I thought of while reading through the above:

I didn't put my fridge and freezer in the alcove to hide them...I really like how they look! Especially with the cabinetry around them. So I, personally, don't think you have to worry about them looking like too much. But maybe I just have a different viewpoint and you really won't like them. Have you seen them in photos of others' kitchens? That might give a better sense of how you'll feel about them when they're not just sitting there, out of place, and with no cabinets around.

The baking center and oven don't have to be in the same spot. The oven obviously has to be easy to access from where pans are loaded, but not necessarily connected. That's what I was thinking when I suggested putting the oven at the end of the stove run...You can keep an eye on it, but others can easily access it without getting in your way. They can work at the island or at a 'center' off to the side...Maybe even at the kids' table if it ends up being located right.

This is two-islands redux. A combination of kids cooking, full tilt secondary prep, move the main dishes over to the eating area, with one or two sinks in the cooking zone.

It puts the twins where your current oven/ref is - maybe with your cook books. Make the hole for the range a bit further down. Keep your existing sink base.

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Zowie, that's one ginormous kitchen! I can't imagine using a space that spread out even with my tribe at home. It's kinda cool, though. I have to say that putting the 3rd sink in the dining room is a "WHY didn't we think of that before?!" thing. Seems so naturally the right place for it.

I kind of want to run one really big island across the second prep island and the kids zone, and use the far right corner where the primary prep island is for the "kid" zone. Don't know if that would work though.

Rhome, I have seen pictures where I liked the look of them. I just wasn't sure how they would look in mine. But, the cabinets around them make a big difference, I know.

I'm posting a drawing of what the layout is right now. The added 6 feet is unfinished, the wall was removed between my dining and kitchen at the insistance of our GC, and he added a large support beam in its place. It does open it up for the table area I want.

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A stab at it:

Bmore, now, that is one COOL looking area! That's bringing the kitchen all the way across the house! But, It's COOL!
Do I want that much kitchen? Well, maybe! I think our posts crossed before I saw your design. What a surprise. The kids would essentially have their own kitchen!
What do you all think about that much? Half my house would be kitchen. One of my kids commented not too long ago that they thought it would be cool to have an island kind of in a piano shape! They even drew it out.

Rhome, I like this! A couple of questions....

What is in front of the pantry? Is that a sink, and did you move the pantry door to the side?

The lower part on the island...for rolling? Maybe a marble section? or for the kids?

The dotted lines in the island, is there a raised bar area?

Is that a proposed kids table at the end of the freezer wall, and what is the area behind that wall? Storage? Bookcases? Something to keep kids art supplies? Cookbooks.
You know, I have a spare bedroom that I intended to make their play room, but they never seem to go there, they are always in the kitchen underfoot, that's why the idea of kids area came to mind. With maybe a combination of my personal books and cookbooks.

So glad to have these to contemplate. I'll be showing DH first thing in the morning. He's already asleep. Oh wait, maybe I'll wake him up!

Thanks, I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

An exploration of what rubyfig said - adds a ref twin. Revisiting an older thought - you get a range enclosure.
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Mega kitchen! :-)

To answer your questions, that is a door to the pantry by the oven, with the filtered sink facing the dining table.

The lowered section of the island: yes, yes, and yes! Figured you could use it for any of those things. I like features that are built and situated for multi-purpose use. Could be marble or butcherblock if you'd like.

Sorry to confuse with the dotted lines on the island. Didn't intend a raised bar, just was outlining what could be cabinets/storage underneath that much depth.

Yes, a table for the kids off the end of the freezer/baking section. Also, yes, on storage behind it. I didn't really plan for what you'd put inside... ;-) But it could be cookbooks, art supplies, games, the vacuum and cleaning supplies...Maybe all of that and more. Depends on what you need it for. I could sure use something like that in my house...in a few places...for lots of things!!!

Thanks yall, I'm working on drawing the two plans on my program so I can get a birds eye view, and if I can ever figure it out, a 3D!

I love them both, and I am really thinking that it will be one.

Bmore, I like the last plan, but don't think it would work, there's no door to my bedroom. :) And, if I did something like that, I would have to put the door seemingly in the middle of the kitchen!

I like the two islands, different shapes, they could be utilized for separate things, the only concern I'm having about that is how the columns will look, one is in the middle of the primary prep, which I guess you could do something cool with it, just can't visualize it yet. Love the openness of it.

I was trying to visualize what rubyfig meant. It sounds like a pretty good idea. I know I've read on here a million times, but is the overhang for seating supposed to be 18"?

Thanks again, I'm really beginning to see a light.

The recommended overhang for seating at counter height is 15".

I'm sorry. I thought you had another entrance to the bedroom -- I misread something about another set of doors. Ha!

The Master has French doors to the outside....What's wrong with going around if it makes a great kitchen? ;-D