Poor baby! You just got taken advantage of. (I know. Bad sentence structure. Don't care.) That $4,000 could have bought a board or something. Regroup. Get rid of all that stuff he put in that you didn't ask for. Then cut a bit more. THEN see what the bids are. Can you put the room on first? And then keep going on finishing it the way you want it when you have the bucks? I've pinched pennies my whole life. don't give up. Bare bones is still the beginning of your dream.

I'm confused - admittedly, our remodel was forced upon us by a fire and we slammed through the architect/drawing/engineering process pretty fast. What I would do is take those bids and then mentally edit out the upgrades you don't need. Like replace the steel beam with an engineered truss. I believe that before any contractor gets started you'll have to have a set of engineering drawings with a structural engineer's stamp, and the construction drawings don't do that, do they? You can also go back to the architect and tell him to revise the stuff he put in before you finalize the plans and contract. Revising drawings should not cost anywhere near the $4K he charged you for the complete set.

I think it's good to know what the price of the top notch project would be. Now you just need to figure out where you're going to cut, and it sounds like the first bid you got gave you some really good information.

Keep at it, I'm sure you'll come out a winner in the end.

Pinch_me: Well, we COULD add the kitchen as planned and have the French doors open onto a two-story drop. :-) Not ideal, even if we bar them closed. But it's an option, adding the deck later.

Karen_belle: These drawing did include a structural engineering consult which the engineer signed off on, and my architect signed and sealed two copies for the town. I had to pay the $4000 upon receipt of those drawings. I don't know how much he's planning to charge me for revised ones, but I'm angry that he didn't give me a few preliminary ones just to get bids, and then revise those as needed after the initial contractor bids came in.

I'm waiting to hear from the other contractors before I call him, but I am definitely going to call him. I'm really astounded over this because he came so highly recommended by so many people.

At least I didn't have a fire to deal with though! Thank you for reminding me to count my blessings.

Wow, I am so sorry for you. I would be totally pissed and depressed as well. There are a lot of really negative stories about architects out there.

Oy vey! i've waited 9 years for my remodeled kitchen, can't imagine your frustration! do you know anyone who's dealt with qualified ASID's who could revise the drawings to reign things in a bit, at least for bids' sake? i've worked with one as KD who was as qualified as many architects, and not nearly as expensive, full of lots of practical advice. some ASIDs lean more towards just decorating, but many might be just what you need to get you in an affordable direction. so don't be discouraged, you will find a way to have the space you want! best of luck to you!

Thanks, twosit.

Jossfan, one of the contractors bidding has done work for me before, and I really trust him to tell me where we can safely cut back. I just don't know what the town will require as far as drawings...though when this contractor put in a bathroom for me a few years back, he sketched it out and took it to the town for permits. They're probably pickier for something like a bump out, should we decide to stick with that plan--and have no cabinets for a year, hah. Maybe I'll do one of those Euro kitchens with open shelves and tabletops till I've saved up more money. Aaaarrggh!!!

I am so with you! I don't think you can depend on architects to really know costs; unfortunately you can't really have competitive bidding without full documents and specifications. I spent $8000+ on plans for bumpout of kitchen;family room and screened porch, and the bids came in about 50k over my top expected number- 155k vs the 100k max that I expected, not including the cabinets/appliances/counters. SO about 200k once everthing is counted. I spent a few weeks being nauseous, then chose the middle bidder to do value engineering with. Out went the wood windows, azek trim, the dimmers, the skylights, etc. Altogether he thought he could cut about 25k but the residual 175k was just too much still. So I asked him to give me a rough estimate on just adding a breakfast room out the family toom sliders (keeping existng walls intact), and expanding the kitchen into the current eating area (keeping most electrical/plumbing intact). So much for that $8000, an expensive lesson. I don't begrudge my architect one penny since she is very good and thorough and worked a long time with me, but do wish that we had a better idea of the cost as we were going through. For those reading this, be warned that additions (without the cabinetry) can easily cost $300 psf for average finishes (vinyl siding, wood floors), not the $150-200 of new construction.

That's so disappointing; I'm sorry that happened to you. We got huge sticker shock when we did our addition. Once you change the footprint, there are soooo many new, high costs: roof, foundation, etc. etc.

Our cost per square foot was about $250, and that's not adding in costs like the appliances, lighting, sound system, architect fees, and some other stuff we paid for separately. Prices probably fluctuate by region, and this was in 2008... but it might give you a ballpark to start with. (Or better yet ask your local builders what cost per square foot is 'average' -- then mentally bump it up a fair amount.) Maybe in this economy they'll be willing to sharpen their pencils a bit. And they should be able to tell you where you can save money.

You have done a great job saving a large amount of money and should be really proud of that. Try to keep that in mind and keep working with builders to find out what you can get for your budget. I hope it all works out well for you.

How disappointing - but look on the bright side (after a glass of wine, sob, or whatever it takes :)

The good news is you now have an opportunity to see how the contractors you are considering really work -- how creative they are, how sensitive to pricing, do they have a working style you are comfortable with -- by having them go through the challenge of downsizing your project for the estimate. This should give you great insight into choosing a contractor. Additionally, they will have some sympathy to what you have experienced AND know your finacial limits are something serious.

This might sound obvious, but the advantage to having drawings and specifications is it is clear to both you and your contractor what you are paying for. Any proposed changes must be outlined and priced before you sign off - make sure you work with someone who at least manages that way. I have a buddy who just got an unexpected 7K additional bill from the electrician because they didn't price up the changes before hand.

Hopefully the experience with the architect will save you additional expense later because you are on guard. Plus you never have to worry that you are short changing the renovation - you know what it would take to "do more" and are choosing not to.

Good luck.

You can put some temporary steps down from the French doors for now and add the deck later.

"Disappointment to a noble soul is what cold water is to burning metal; it strengthens, tempers, intensifies, but never destroys it."
~ Eliza tabor

I wish I had words of wisdom. I hope Ms. Tabor's words
comfort you.
:*(
~boxer

Chana, I understand sticker shock. It's exactly that, a shock. But, kitchens are the most expensive room in any home to renovate. And small additions are more expensive per square foot than larger additions. New construction costs are around $150 a square foot. Remodeling costs usually add 50% to 150% of that. I think you're being given some pretty good quotes if you can get your kitchen addition (without the deck) done for 50K.

I wouldn't cut costs on either lighting or the steel support beams. Engineered wood can't span as long a distance and with the same size, and will either intrude into your space or need support posts. The architect is creating the open space with the steel, and the lighting is making sure the space feel bright and light. Way too many people skimp on lighting, and that's the #1 determinant of "mood" in a home. WIndows are great, but they are black holes after dark, and you'll need to be able to have the same feeling as you would during the day if you want to enjoy your space. That can only be accomplished with lighting. So, I wouldn't skimp on the specs for the addition.

Now the deck is another story. THere are many types of decking out there today from ipe to Trex, and none of them are exactly cheap. I'd personally check into building a wide stair from the doors down to a ground level patio that could be DIYed. It won't be exactly cheap either, but it can be a fun family project that can help you realize the more important and functional kitchen project.

Scrappy...wow. I'm sorry you had to go through this as well, but since misery loves company, I'm perversely glad I'm not the only one. Nausea is exactly what I'm feeling now--but I'm trying to get over it and move on. It's interesting that my boss told me he had the same thing happen to him, and wrote the architect a nasty email five years later when he wanted to get the plans for the buyers of his house, and the architect's response was: "Gee, I wish you'd told me this earlier so we could have worked something out." So maybe there's hope that I can recover some of the money.

Chicagoans: Thank you for the kind words and helpful info.

Sparklekitty: You're right...and I think that one of the lessons I'll take away from this is to work with the contractor that I know and trust, who's done quality work for me in the past and never sprung any unpleasant price increases on me.

Warmfridge: That is a GREAT idea and I may end up doing just that!

Boxerpups: With everything that you provide on this forum to others, YOU are the noble soul. :-) Thanks so much for the quote. I'm going to print it out and paste it onto the fridge!

live_wire_oak: I'd never change the structural support without an engineer's okay, but believe me, the lighting he designed is WAAAAAY overdone. My current kitchen lighting has all the utility and charm of a cave, so adequate lighting is one of the things I'm most looking forward to!

The same thing happened to me. What did I do? I acted on my own GC. A three story addition that included an I beam and steel posts. Look into generaling your own project. The good thing about it for me was that I made tens of changes and do you know how many change order charges I got? NOne. Good luck!

Michelle, I'm beyond impressed! How did you learn everything you needed to know about the building codes? And how did you supervise the people doing the actual construction so that it was done correctly?

Update: My favorite contractor just called me! He said that he wanted to doublecheck with his electrician and plumber, but just as a rough estimate, for the WHOLE JOB (including changes to lighting and doors in other rooms) he's coming in at $80-90K. Which makes me feel SO much better. I asked how much for just the kitchen and deck and he said he didn't price it that way because there's so much work throughout the house that it would change the price to do it piecemeal. So I have one more estimate to wait for, and that's the guy the architect recommended and who is supposed to have very good prices. But if I can afford the guy I've used before, I'm going with him. IF I do the mega-plan. I'm going over to the thread about cost vs. market recoup thread and weigh in on that issue. :-)

Updating again: Last night the third of the contractors I requested a quote from came in with his numbers: a little over $56 for everything in the plans, excluding permits, painting and materials (first contractor had told me it would be that much for the kitchen ALONE). Wow! I know all the caveats about going with the cheapest bid, but my architect recommended him and a friend who used him was very pleased. So if his other references check out, I'll be able to afford my kichen sooner rather than later. :-) Thanks to everyone who listened and responded with hairpats and sympathy when I first posted...it was much appreciated!

I was away a lot when you first posted and missed it. I'm SO glad you've gotten a couple of reasonable bids.

Before you sign on with either contractor, please nail down in writing exactly who pays for which materials (do you pay for the wire, or is it included?) and what happens with overruns.

I always tell people I knew my contractor was the right guy because his bid was three times more than the other ones. That's overly simplistic, but he counted how many junction boxes he'd need, the amount of master plumber attention getting the new drains laid through slab would take, and all the other little details. He figures trades time by the half day or day, so that when the plumber didn't like the drain venting which was piecemeal, when he opened up the wall, he just fixed it. He was there and he was being paid, and there was no, "Hey, Lady, look at this. That's going to cost you an extra thousand dollars." There were extras, like when I asked for extra special cabinet materials, or added moving a light switch in the dining room, but there were no overruns to the contract. We made a contract and he stuck to it because he'd thought the job through and priced it accordingly.

I just don't want you to get stuck. If you have a firm budget, lock it down with the contractor to make sure that there will be no nasty surprises once you get started. And since one of the reasonable bids seems to be from someone you've worked with, and been happy with, before, I'd think that that would be a plus in his favor that would be worth a lot of peace of mind.

I don't want you to get stuck either with a contractor who cuts corners. Our deck just fell off our house, revealing how poorly and how far below standard it was constructed and fastened to the house. Just a word of caution to check out the lowest bidder very carefully so you don't regret your decision, and good luck!

Thanks, y'all! Plllog, I will definitely do that...the contractor I've worked with has been very good about sticking to his price, but I will get all details nailed down in the contract. Much obliged for that VERY important reminder!

Susanka, YIKES. Now I feel better about my architect's tendency to overbuild...the first, crazy-expensive contractor thought the deck supports built against the house were silly, but hearing your story I'm not so sure. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I will for sure get more references from this guy and check them all if I decide to go with him. My architect's recommendation of him is worth a lot because it's in his best interest to see his project correctly executed, but it can't hurt to be extra careful.

Thanks again for reading and responding...I'm so excited that my dream kitchen may actually be happening!!! :-)