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My next kitchen war.

15 years ago

This is one of the next kitchens I will be doing.

Roughly 10'6'' x 7'. Bounded by two exterior walls with no possibility of expansion, the front door, and the living room.

It *might be possible to gain a few inches at the LR end, but it might *also be possible that a few inches are lost to the LR with something else that may happen.

It's not on the program to walk right into the kitchen, so the separation from the front door will remain in some shape or form. It will be used by a serious cook.

This particular kitchen was only installed in 2007. The cabinets, the range and fridge will be repurposed in the basement for storage and a back up oven as needed.

The project is slated but it will not be started for some time.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Comments (32)

  • 15 years ago

    What is the owner's aim for the space? Upgraded finishes only, or a change in functionality?

  • 15 years ago

    Both, really. There is probably budget for a true counter depth fridge and a good 18" DW, which should suffice, so those will both add extra inches which are crucial.

  • 15 years ago

    If the wall must stay, could you change it so it is more like what shanghimom has with her passthrough?

    Here is a link that might be useful: shanghaimom

  • 15 years ago

    It is probable that the wall will both stay but be reconfigured in terms of opening(s) Some kind of obscure glass as a wall or window is even a possibility.

  • 15 years ago

    What about the corner where the MW and toaster oven are? Does that little corner have to stay? Can they go with real base cabinets there?

    Can the windows move down? They seem really high. I wonder about lengthening them down? They were honestly the first thing I noticed, thinking to myself that I could probably not see out of them and they seemed to sit oddly in the wall.

  • 15 years ago

    It can probably be reduced but it is the stack and probably a trunk for the HVAC.

    You can't see out of the windows, except "up" but based upon the house's location this configuration is probably best. They will be replaced with something nicer quality, but essentially they are a clerestory window.

    The house is modernist/brutalist. The front facade is relatively blank and solid, but there are two entire walls of glass. There is an interesting balance in the whole exterior of solid and void.

  • 15 years ago

    This isn't that modernist/brutalist rowhouse you were looking at before, is it? Nice challenge you have here. I'll be looking forward to following it.

  • 15 years ago

    No, it isn't but it is of the same era. It is a completely different expression of brutalist, but still spare.

    The thing I did not like about those others was kitchen and powder room in the basement.
    The best of those had a walkout basement--and one of these sold in a matter of days, I didn't even get to look. The worst of those don't even have a window, and most have a lightwell to the glass wall in the LR above. But I really don't want a basement kitchen--maybe in a historical house, but not a new (40 + yo) one.

  • 15 years ago

    I think that is a one-butt kitchen, but it must be nice to have everything handy!

  • 15 years ago

    It is one person now, but I hope it can be made for two. It is "not small" taking into consideration the age of the house, the overall size, and the neighborhood. A one person kitchen here may have floorspace as small as 3 x 3'6" or so (between counters and appliances of course.) Here at least all appliances open without interfering with each other.

  • 15 years ago

    I always thought you were a KD until I read some of the threads over the weekend where you mentioned being a teacher and some medically-related patients with which you deal. Not that it matters, but are you a part-time KD as well as a teacher?

  • 15 years ago

    Are those soffits or are they support beams? If they are beams, then I'd love to see them look a little more brutal.

  • 15 years ago

    Okay, I am sometimes a serious cook, and on those occasions a kitchen that small would have me stacking bowls on trays on bowls in a precarious teetering pyramid . . . so I would be looking for a wee cabinet with a rack to hold a dozen half-sheet pans of prep in progress.

    I would also be super happy for some integrated steps to let me reach the uppermost shelf of the upper cabinets. Maybe a strategically placed recessed toehold in the lower cabinet face. You know that every last bit of space will be precious.

  • 15 years ago

    Yikes! I was just whining about the size of my kitchen which is only 4" longer in one directions and 10" longer in the other than this one, but mine is much more open - an L with a peninsula parallel to the longer side. That'll teach me to knock off the whining.

    How does a true counter depth 'fridge save inches? I thought they were wider.

  • 15 years ago

    In many ways, what's there looks like a workable kitchen, so whatever you do to make it moreso will be all delicious.

    Is the pass through wall structural? Because reading your description of it made me think of exchanging it for a big, rolling glass divider that could glide past the art on that living room wall. It would work as a door, but also could be completely opened up for when having a little extra butt room in the kitchen was more important than the separation of space. Might be even better to do this in two or three parts that stack so it wouldn't have to cover the LR wall. Not as gargantuanly impressive, more like glass shojis.

    Following on what Johnliu said (love those out of the box thoughts like the built in climbing wall cupboards): This is a kitchen, if ever I saw one, that's begging for an open shelf at top of backsplash/under cabinets. If it were a foot deep, it would be a great place to arrange mise en place, or set pies to cool, a place for a bowl of fruit and the salt and pepper, and a place to stick the bag of potatoes or apples while peeling. Where counter space is at such a premium, having a little extra flat surface is invaluable. Might need a Magritte-like label: This is not a bookshelf. :)

  • 15 years ago

    Breezy, yes, I only use my interior design degree occasionally. It's not my day job.

    Mcm, I think they are just soffits but time will tell.

    Suzanne, my current fridge is also only 27"w and they go down to 24" x 24" but I would like 30" if possible.

    John and p111og it will need some out of the box thinking, for sure, and it will need steps or something for the highest shelvs

  • 15 years ago

    That's one kitchen where I could justify an under-the-sink dishwasher. They're not ideal but they're OK; I had one.

    My old kitchen was actually smaller than that. The real obstacle to cooking isn't necessarily working prep space, it's where-do-I-put-this-down space. The mise, the hot pan, all that. I think a shelf only needs to be about 9" deep to be able to support the bottom of a dinner plate, though the rim sticks out. Maybe something that pulls down, perhaps.

    I should confess that in my tiny working kitchen I actually had a lot of cupboard space built into the dining room. In a space like that I might do a built-in console or hutch outside the pass-through, where you can put the dishes in from the kitchen side and access them from the outside. There would be no intrusion into the kitchen floor space.

  • 15 years ago

    I think recessing into walls, where possible, is worth considering. 4'' is material in that kitchen.

    The counter-depth fridge could be recessed and the neighboring cabinets made shallow and used as a pantry, a function for which shallow is actually nice. There would still be room for a usable counter on that wall.

    The portion of wall immediately under and above the passthrough is not structural, so cabinetry there could be built into the wall for a 4'' gain. Maybe that's a spot for the proposed sheet tray rack.

    Cooktops and wall ovens are shallower than ranges (24'' vs 28'' typically), so would seem worth considering, especially since the latter permits the Swiss Army knife ''speed oven''. A single dishdrawer might be an alternative to an 18'' dishwasher.

    Is the ''living room'' also the ''dining room''?

    The ''shallow-shelf-above-counter'' detail seems made for this situation. Going vertical where horizontal is scarce.

    I think it is very doable, I'm just not sure where you're going to fit the family eat-in and the trophy island.

  • 15 years ago

    I was going to ask where the trophy was going, but not island wise. ;)

    Can't wait to see what you do with it, Pal.

  • 15 years ago

    Could you put the sink under the pass through, and make the part of the kichen between the door and the window into a galley (that dead ends at the window)? Would the aisle be wide enough?

    I hope those are soffits. It'll be quite the war if they aren't.

  • 15 years ago

    The kitchen isn't quite wide enough for parallel counters along the narrower length. The floor space is, but it reduces the utility of the counter on the short run...trade-offs.

    The DR is the same size and on the other side of the door. As an open space right inside the front door I find it rather useless.

    I am going counter of what many would do, and closing it up a bit by putting a vestibule around the front door. Then the DR will be a "room" too--but probably a library with a sleeper sofa. My dad is 87 and doesn't do great on stairs.

    Sometimes a smaller house needs walls for space delineation and a wall is the narrowest way this can be done. Some people who have taken their vestibules out of even smaller 19th c. houses have regretted it.

  • 15 years ago

    Could you put the sink under the pass through, and make the part of the kichen between the door and the window into a galley (that dead ends at the window)? Would the aisle be wide enough?

    Ooo, I see that! And a floor-to-ceiling casement window at the end of the galley, translucent glass if the view dictates. Lose 1 or 2 blind corners. Gain a cool wall of light plus huge ventilation when needed.

  • 15 years ago

    If the front door swung the other way could a shallow cupboard be put below the pass-through? plunk space for entry and for serving food plus a place for less-used gear?

  • 15 years ago

    I am certainly no authority in layouts but I am sure whatever you do with this space will be fabulous.

  • 15 years ago

    Layout issues aside, I tend to also start considering materials and finishes. I will let finishes drive layout decisions/design in general to some degree.

    (The house is not closed on and it will also be a rental property for an indeterminate amount of time, but it's never too early to conceptualize :) )

    Because of the era of the house, and the size of the house, I was thinking that I might be able to get away with St Charles cabinets, budget-wise.

    They are built on a 0.25" increment (semi custom is 3"), so in a very small space that is key. I was able to do Kraftmaid with no modifications for base cabinets in my own kitchen, but had to go full custom on the upper to get what I was after.

    IKEA would give the right look, but the limited sizes would be a big trade-off.

    Since the house is modernist with brutalist leanings, expression of materials is good. I am *really* happy with the soapstone in my current kitchen and I think this small kitchen would be a great place for it functionally, but I am not sure I see a black countertop in this house. Hmm...

  • 15 years ago

    Very much looking forward to the changes and improvements you make! A challenging puzzle calling for your creativity and some inventive storage and work area solutions. The appearance is almost a blank slate with no where to go but up.

  • 15 years ago

    I see a flip up cutting board under the passthrough to give more temp counterspace. And 1960's style birch plywood cabinets with concrete countertops would work with the home style. A wall pot rack above the passthrough could also work to extend storage and act as a decorative valance to the passthrough. If the passthrough isn't full of plumbing, you could rip the drywall of thr kitchen side and create shallow open shelves in that space.

    For your separation wall, I'll suggeest something I've suggested for a couple of my friends who are apartment dwellers and who couldn't change their space. I had them hang old windows from chains from the ceiling and then hung more windows from them until there was a wall of windows. One person used "etched glass" applied glass film to create more privacy, and one didn't even care if the windows had glass in them. It might be too "thrift store cutesy" for the space, or it might work as minimalist whimsy.

  • 15 years ago

    I think the pass through as such is going to be history.

    Right outside the door is a one-step stoop, and then the sidewalk. There Might be 10 feet to the curb. This house is 100% urban. There is actually an extant trolley track outside the door although they rarely run a trolley on it (they used to at X-mas)

    So, the front door is getting a full vestibule around it, meaning a "box" that is big enough to come in, close the door first and then open the interior door, and that will take about to the kitchen door. So while there may be a 'window' there or some kind of translucent panel, the pass through will not be open and will likely be a different shape.

    Luckily, there is no plumbing on any interior walls and I think the heat trunk is in that corner in the kitchen. There are also no supporting walls except around the stairwell, and they only support the stairs. This is party-wall-to-party-wall joist construction.

  • 15 years ago

    Can you swing the former front door that becomes airlock door outward?

  • 15 years ago

    That would give more room to maneuver, but an outswinging door that was unsheltered in snow country and that opens almost onto the sidwalk is probably not too feasible for those reasons.

  • 15 years ago

    Great! Watching this be further developed for a serious cook is going to be fun. Johnlieu's thoughts are particularly thought provoking. Are you sure you can't start soon? :)

  • 15 years ago

    No, this project won't be started too soon. The house will be a rental property for an indeterminate amount of time, and then it needs to be 'lived in' first to see how it really functions overall.

    This is a case of right house, right neighborhood, right price, not quite right time.

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