Would you consider moving your stovetop to the counter (where you don't have uppers) and the sink DW to the island?

Thanks for the input Laura!

We've thought about it, but we prefer having the range on the island. In a previous house we had the range in a prominent location and we really liked it. This aligns with how we see ourselves using the kitchen better.

I think I'd be uncomfortable with the range so close to the end of an open-ended counter.

You seem to have a lot of counterspace where I'm not sure it will do you any good. Do you have plans for that counter under the windows?

At the least, I'd want to get the dw away from the stove and would put it on the other side of the sink.

It doesn't look like you have enough room for back to back seating between the table and island.

it looks good, but saying this is a backhanded way of saying your architect like to make things look good while disregarding other considerations. It's suboptimal in many ways, all just to make it look good.

What is the space between the garage and the kitchen? Is it available for reallocation?

Remember that a fridge needs several inches more depth than ovens or a DW.

Remember that drawers in the cabinet bases are far far more useful, and they look good too.

A staircase runway and a dining room table don't belong so close together. In the remodeling forum you might get a few more hints about the "lookgood versus practicality" dilemma. I am not sure anyone will enjoy a staircase runway and a dining room table so close together.

It sounds like you're planning on quite the project! Glad you're so thrilled. It looks like you'll have a nice space but I really think your kitchen layout needs some changes IMHO.

You have a fairly large space but I'm not sure why everything is crowded into one area and then you have a lot of counterspace that really doesn't serve any purpose.

Your range, oven and DW are all right across from each other and it seems that area would get very congested. Anyone using the oven would be crowding whoever may be working at the range. And the DW would crowd both those areas. At the very least, I'd swap the DW to the other side of the sink. As it is now, I think you'll end up doing most of your prep over the DW. The range, oven and DW are also between the fridge and the only sink. Imagine people wanting something from the fridge and then having to cross through the congested work zone between your range and oven to get to the sink.

Also a concern that you really don't have any landing area for the fridge. The only landing area is the small space you have to the side of the range. I see that space getting really tight and busy as it becomes the landing area for the fridge as well as a working area for the range.

You have all that open counterspace to the left of the sink that won't really get used in your current plan. What if you place the fridge at the end of that counter so it is convenient to those using the seating area or the backyard? That also gets the fridge closer to the sink while it keeps traffic out of your work zone. Then I'd move the oven down where you had the fridge. If you swap the DW to the left of the sink, that gets the DW out of that congested area near the range. That also opens up a nice run of counter for you to prep between your sink and oven which would be across from your range.

I agree that the back to back seating between the island and the table looks really tight.

I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice about your layout. Keep in mind people want to help! You're going to spend a lot of money on your new space and it really pays off to spend the time now to make sure it will be a space that works for you. :)

create more of a galley setup instead of the L with island-narrow and shorten the island a bit-and bring it in closer to the kitchen....move dining table setup up to top position since the short arm of the L of kitchen gets eliminated....you get to reconfigure the seating in living area as table is no longer in the way. The jam up between stair descent/table and island seating is eliminated. Dimensions are needed-didn't see any,but with lots of sq footage,make sure the open plan is maximized-people move around and back and forth....I would definitely put the table up and out of the way.....much more time will be spent in the seated areas and cooking/prep than actual sitting at the dining table-the table needs a nice position but not central,and actually blocking everything up.

Agree with Rhome that the seating at the island is too close to the seatign at the table. Chairs will be constantly bumping into each other.

My current kitchen is arranged very similarly to your layout. I have a long run of counter space followed by sink, DW, range, fridge all crunched together like yours. If I was the only person using my kitchen it would be just ok. But since many times my husband is helping with clean up while I am preparing it is a difficult layout. If I am cooking he cannot be loading the dishwasher because I am standing in his way and vice versa. Your layout has the same issue.

Also, is that a pantry between the garage and kitchen? I'd love to see the garage enter thru the pantry, it would make unloading and storing groceries a breeze!

All of the points made above are more than valid. There isn't room for the table. The island cooktop as pictured will be crowded and unsafe and won't really have good prep space beside it. Adding a single garage adds almost no value or utility to a home, etc. This plan will WORK pretty badly for the $250K+ you plan to spend here. If this house or location is pretty special in that it's worth almost completely remaking from the inside out, then you need to chuck most of this kitchen and start over. (I'd also chuck a lot of the rest of the plan as well, frankly.) If the location or home isn't architecturally significant, then really take a look at putting that money together with the current value of the house and moving. A remodel like you are talking about will take over your life and be the most stressful and costly thing you've just about ever done and current home values and mortgage rates are insanely low. Think about that before you go down this road too far. If you want a 3000 square foot open concept house, taking an 1100 old closed in one and an architect and a builder is the absolute poorest use of your money to arrive at the results that you want.

Your architect doesn't cook, does he? Or park a car, evidently. Or watch TV. And why does there appear to be a bathtub in the garage???

As David said, it's pretty. But completely unlivable in the real world.

It might help if we could see the existing space. If this were my space and this is where I had to place my kitchen I'd do it differently. That is a very large pantry for the space. Does it also serve as a laundry room? I too have a space challenged home and we did a whole house remodel. Piggybacking on what LWO said; we decided to forgo the extension and remodel within the existing footprint. Our decision was based on ...well...life. It's just 2 of us now, the notion that we did not want to incur debt at this stage of life as we strive to be debt free within a few years, and the area in which we live. What that allowed us was the ability to put in whatever we wanted. We don't know enough about your situation to say whether or not a remodel of this scale makes sense of not or if this is your best use of space/money. Given what you showed; I'd definitely find better use for all that counter to the left of the sink. Off the top of my head and starting from the short L i'd probably do DW, sink, blind cab, drawers, range, more drawers, frig, and place a speed oven in the island.

Though I'm no expert, I see a lot of issues with the layout as well.

Definitely suggest relocating the door from the garage into the house into the pantry(?)...it gives a wonderful way to bring in groceries right to the area where they are going to be stored. Also, it can serve as a small mudroom area. Not certain of the full space, but this looks like it could serve as laundry area as well with a stackable unit. Don't know what the bathtub is that is in your garage.

I know you said you like the range in the island. I like the look...I like the idea of being able to talk with people while cooking on the range, but ultimately decided against it - the grease splatters alone kill that idea for me. There's a reason why we have backsplashes. I may be wrong on this because I've never worked with an island exhaust, but it seems to me that having the back wall to help "capture" the fumes/grease/smoke helps to contain it to an area where the exhaust fan can more adequately eliminate it.

You do need an area to set stuff you are getting out of the fridge. Right now, there's only that small space in the island by the cooktop. It will be fine when you aren't cooking, but not so good when you are.

Where are your dishes/flatware/glasses living? Ideally, it should be very near the dishwasher and sink.

I'm not sure that the short leg of the L in your kitchen is really serving you well and I wonder if it would be better to widen the island, possibly shorten it a bit, and put the table where the short L leg is so that it's more along that wall. The seating for the island and the table appears to be too tight right now and it almost seems like you have too many "barriers" for it to look open flow since you have double parallels (the island and the table).

Wow! Lots of good feedback and points to consider.

I think it's clear that the dishwasher needs to go on the other side of the sink. The dishes will go in drawers right next to it. The place where the dishwasher used to be will be where the garbage/recycling will go.

I'm thinking I should move the wall oven to be under the counter on the "L" side, if I did this, then we'd have more counter space next to the fridge.

The space behind the garage is a pantry, we ruled out having a door there (the architect originally had one) because we didn't want two points of entry to store coats.

The current location he has the dining table isn't where it's going to end up, the furniture in the living room isn't what we actually have and was put there as a place holder.

The Garage:
The city limits us to a single car garage, we're actually converting our carport into a garage.

The bathtub in the garage is actually a dog wash station (like what groomers have, stainless steel standing height).

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments! Do you think moving the oven would help? I don't plan on using the 2nd oven very often (holidays mainly).

SeaKoz

I would definitely move the wall oven to the other end of the L...and maybe use something like this for your hood. I think it would look good with your style :)
{{gwi:1910267}}From Kitchen plans

Hi, SeaKoz. As usual, information is enlightening. :) Your design really does look wonderful stylewise. If I had an open plan home I'd want it to be something like this--in looks

Tell me, do you guys cook for a hobby? I mean, are you among those for whom being home largely means being in the kitchen? I ask because the space and importance allocated to it, I'm guessing according to your wishes, is everything such people could wish, while the dining--wherever the table goes--and living areas are quite small, and limited. Your architect knows that if the unusually low lines and light scale of the chairs shown are anything to go by. If so, this sort of kitchen-centric design may satisfy you, even if you do have to keep a can of paint under the sink for frequent touchups where the chairs are banging.

If you're like most of us in this respect, though, I really think the allocation of such an extravagance of space to the kitchen should be questioned, including the pantry. It really looks like it was placed at the end of an existing space and then expanded until it finally filled the wall. Too long an area, as it turned out, ergo the pantry to fill in some of the space.

That'd be fine with me, I'd like it with some tweaking of layout to my preferences, BUT, still, where would the table and chairs go and would there be enough room for them? Or would the entire space end up looking and feeling cramped and cluttered--with real furniture--because the middle of the room was? Remember, all view lines cross this space.

Folks are telling you truth.

As is, moving the ovens next to the slider & DW left of the sink opens up a wet prep space exactly where you need it: between the sink and fridge, en route to the island prep area and cooktop. Baking and beverage/coffee areas would make excellent use of that top run next to the slider. If the slider is not in yet, maybe shift it a little left to make the counter leg longer.

BUT - no way will that big table there be comfortable or practical. You say it won't "end up" there - what kind of dining do you need/want in addition to the island? If you want to seat 8, you may have to rethink the scale of the kitchen, as it is not leaving enough space for large living and dining areas... If you usually seat 4 or less, would you consider a booth or a banquette that tucks into part of the pantry space?

I'm guessing the whole area to be about 18 x 31. As is, and allowing passage around the island, there is roughly 18 x 18 to work with for seating and dining. You'll have to set priorities, and decide if that size kitchen/pantry is the best use of the space.

There are folks here who can help you rework the design. It is a rare architect who can design a great kitchen.

Hi Rosie,

We do cook as a hobby and the living room next to the kitchen is hardly used unless we're entertaining. We have a full family room in the basement which is where we spend most of our "us" time.

Ah. The bulb goes on! Putting your plan into that context really makes sense of it. Lots of people, many not overly thrilled with cooking itself, get so carried away with adding in features that the kitchen eventually gobbles the dining area up. There's a real fad on the forum these days for built-in seating, a large portion of which is either forced after the fact by not leaving enough room for dining or used as a means of enabling further cannibalization. So that typical problem is I think what most of us were concerned about.

"The current location he has the dining table isn't where it's going to end up, the furniture in the living room isn't what we actually have and was put there as a place holder." Will the rest of that space be mostly given over to dining, then? Maybe just an upholstered piece or two around the edges?

Whatever. Back to the kitchen, which doesn't seem too big at all. :) I like putting the oven under the counter, both to optimize work area and to open up the space. It seems right for the whole room visually.

Well...I think Davidro1 hit the nail on the head: the architect, as most architects seem to do, designed for looks/form, not function. I do have to ask, though: Did you tell the architect where some things had to go (e.g., the range in the island)?

You say the range works for the way you "see yourselves using the kitchen" and that you had the range in a "prominent" location in a different house - was that "prominent" location an island?

If so, was the island the same size in the other house as this one? Was there a sink in the island in the other house? I'm asking b/c most people spend 70% or more of their time/work in the kitchen prepping. This means the Prep Zone should be in the space you like to work at the most - whether it's in front of a window with a great view (or to watch the kids playing outside) or in an island so you can visit with others while working or so you can watch the TV from an adjacent room.

Only 10% of the time is spent actually cooking at a range/cooktop - the least amount of time - so don't waste the "best" location on the least used area. (Cleanup is the other 20% of your time.)

What you can do, is combine the Prep & Cooking Zones, if you really want the range in the island - then you would have your best location for 90% of your work...but, you need to have the right size island, an appropriate setup, and sufficient work space for both zones.

While a range/cooktop in an island (or peninsula) isn't necessarily a bad thing - it needs to work with the location of the other elements in the kitchen and the island should be sized appropriately. I am glad to see you did not put seating directly behind the range - a definite good first step in designing the island with a range.

Unfortunately, if you keep the island where it is, you probably cannot have seating on the table side of the island - there just isn't enough room. You could, however, consider one seat on each end or something similar. Without actual dimensions of the space, it's hard to tell if there is room for even that.

Regarding putting the oven under-the-counter...be aware that this type of installation puts the oven lower than it is in a range. You say you will not use it often, so maybe it will be OK there. But, are you a tall or short family? If the former, I don't think you'll like it there, regardless of how often you use it; if the latter, it might work....

I notice you have two microwaves in the pantry - would you consider putting your oven in there as well? Actually, I would consider moving one MW into the kitchen and keep the second MW and oven in the pantry.

Windows...are you changing the windows at all? Is the one over the sink area new or existing? If existing, would you consider changing it - either moving it to the left or making it bigger (I like the "bigger" idea!)

Others have suggested a "galley" style with a straight run of cabs along the sink wall (no "L") and then the island for the other side of the galley. For you, I think this is a good idea.

How about something like this?

{{gwi:1910268}}

This is really interesting Buehl and really helpful to see the image, we're going to have to give it some thought.

Thank you!