Interesting sidenote: the poor finish work you are describing is exactly the sort of thing we saw all over China in "high end" hotels and restaurants, and in general. I suspect the Chinese think we are overly fussy.

Hope you haven't paid in full yet.

Kitchen Craft is an American owned company that manufactures out of Manitoba Canada so I am rather confused by the follow-up post.

Kitchen Craft is a frameless line and in my experience the installation of filler and moldings is done after the boxes are set in place.

Before:

After:

It would be nice if it were done right the first time but it is part of the process to do a walk through after installation and identify deficiencies. Your KD hasn't even seen the finished job so I'm not sure why your impugning his\her reputation s\he may be as unhappy as you or spot other problems you have missed. I'm sure his\her reputation is based on completed jobs and yours does not sound finished yet. As you get to the finish line it gets tougher so hang in there, don't assume the worst, yet.

Caryscott , you do have a valid point but this installer does all her cabinet work so I have to assume this is not uncommon. Also, I work around a lot of construction contractors and see the workmanship of todays skilled laborers and it's something not to be desired. It seems most have the following attitude "just show me the money".

Definitely bring it up with the installer/KD, but for what it's worth, we had gaps where our cabinets abutted the walls until the very last day of install, when they were all caulked (and they look great now). Our cabinetmaker (who did assure us beforehand that the gaps would be filled) leaves a very small gap that then gets filled with caulk that can flex so that the cabinet wood can expand or the walls can settle without causing cracks. (Dunno if this is unique to having painted vs. stained cabinets or not, but ours are painted.) We only have filler strips to cover the gap in one place where the wall was so uneven that it would have been showcased by the caulk line, so his rec there was to use the filler strips to hide it...and even those were installed the very last day, when he did the caulking. So it's possible that if you are at 95%, the last 5% will involve addressing all of those gaps.

Not sure I'm totally clear on the light rail issue, but that sounds like something different if it's uneven. I'd just ask nicely, and if in fact it's just places they haven't finished yet, they'll reassure you. If it's things they need to fix, then they'll know you've noticed. Good luck!

I may be extra cranky because of our experiences, but I would document what needs doing and take pix. We have a half house reno that looks like your kitchen sounds, inside and out. I figured they come around at the end tying up loose ends. I pointed things out as they came up but figured the finishing touches would be done at some point. Our gc has decided our job is finished and left behind lots of messes, including things not working. I found the mistakes and sloppiness snowballed at the end, but YMMV.

Your cabinet installers need to install scribe moldings where the ends of the cabinet runs meet the wall. It's not unusual for there to be slight gaps and the scribe moldings give the cabinets a nice, finished look.

Here's what I think. I think that contractors and designers perform work on multiple quality levels which are generally different price points. Are this KD's award winning kitchens on the same price point as yours? If so, then yes, it should have already been acknowledged (by the KD or the installer along with an assurance that it will be corrected.) If those designer kitchens are in show houses or in homes many times the price of a regular kitchen, then you will probably have to do a lot of insisting to get things completed.

I speak from personal experiences. The last house we built was built by a high end exclusive show home builder. My house was the size and cost of the show homes' garages. I'm pretty sure I was a charity case. However, we found that if we stayed on the sub-contractors and even the superintendent, then we got a high quality product as well. But it was definitely up to us to notice the little things and perhaps even a few of the big things.

caryscott, footwedge wasn't complaining about the quality of the cabinets, she was saying the finish work sucked: "Visible cracks still remain between the wall and cabinets at end runs," "The...light rail is not flush with the sides of the cabinets," "2 pieces of crown molding have visible cracks."

She also indicated that this project had progressed to finish work, not that it was an initial installation day. My comment was that this sloppiness is pretty standard and accepted in China. I hope we never get to the point where we think this is OK, that we will always expect a quality job, not just a "finished" one.

For the cracks between the cabs and the walls, what paulines said, there need to be moldings there. These are generally thin and flexible, and can be attached with a pin nailer (and therefore are easy to pry up later). I made my own scribe moldings by ripping thin strips off of 3/4" maple, then staining it the same as my cabs.

The thing is, adding scribe molding is one of those really easy things that makes a big difference. If you are cabinet installer, you would want to do this, because it doesn't take very long, and it cleans up the look of the install.

Sorry but it still seems like a non sequitur to me. Does footwedge live in China? Is footwedge or his\her installer Chinese? If they were should we really be making generalizations about their perceptions of quality? While I'm not one to overly romanticize a free market economy the quality of workmanship you encountered in China may have more to do with the absence of a free market\choice(perhaps this was your point - sometimes I can be a bit obtuse).

@caryscott, what you said, exactly. I'm guessing the kitchen and its installers reside somewhere in the western hemisphere, and the cabinet manufacturer is not culpable for the absence of QC in the installation.
I am OTOH, usually to blame for things fitting too tight. It was here on GW that I finally learned the 3/32" rule for inset door tolerances. Before that lesson, I had been building inset cabinets way too tight for over 20 years and not understanding why I always had to come back and plane off "a little more". I love the look of the tighter door margins, but the material won't tolerate it.
Well, duh!
Casey

If the install isn't finished, then hold your horses. The issues that you describe are all part of the absolute last bit of tweaking. Yes, document your concerns, but until the installer tell you he's done, you really don't have any issues. He's not done!

I understand the need for emotional support, and that you have questions about the process, but you're putting yourself through stress for no reason, plus you're posting negative things about him in a public forum. Not cool.

To the OP -- I agree with those who have told you that you don't have a problem until your installer is finshed. But do make note of deficiencies and make sure they are addressed.

And -- pardon the "hijack" --

@Cary Scott -- what is the paint color in your kitchen? I love it!

BTW, light rail is supposed to sit proud of the cabinet box. It should either match the door depth (3/4" past the box) or extend proud of the door as a decorative detail. If it doesn't sit flush or extend past the door, it will look recessed which is not the look you're going for.

Hey Live_wire_oak,

Thanks for the info about the position of the light rail. We are using the simple 1.5"x3/4" light rail, nothing fancy.

The front position below the cabinet doors is flush on some cabs and is slightly proud on some others. I can live with this but it's the sides where I have the problem. Some are flush with the cabinet side and some are 1/8" proud of the cabinet side wall which will be a constant dust magnet. Not knowing the correct way to install the rail, I probably would have let it ride if all matched which they don't.

Assuming the "proud" is a trade word, are you a cabinet maker/installer?

Live_wire_oak,

Bump

footwedge, footwedge, footwedge,

Web search using terms like this

"Live wire Oak" site:ths.gardenweb.com

Copy and paste as is.
Include the quotations and the word site with the punctuation

Web searching you will get your answer about who Live_wire_oak might be or what qualifications he/she might have. YOu will see Live_wire_oak has years (decades) experience in the business, knows the terms, and knows how to use the terms so that you understand them. But footwedge you don't want a yes/no answer about whether l_w_o is a cabinet person or something similar; no, no, no, what you want is to ask another question to the crowd or both to the crowd and directed more to l_w_o than to others: A Question which will deal with some point you want to know about the installation you are facing.

In the sentence that "proud" stood tall, so did "flush". Web searching flush proud along with a 3rd key word like cabinet, you will learn more about that subject. My writing this out for you footwedge is to help you learn how to web search on the fly so you ask fewer simple questions that you could get answered all by yourself on your own without turning to the crowd and saying the equivalent of "golly gee instead of opening the encycylopedia that is on my desk could someone enlighten me".

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/proud
= Standing out or raised; swollen. E.g. "After it had healed, the scar tissue stood proud of his flesh."

Hth,

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to learn how to find things out. A big part of the job is to learn terminology and to achieve that end, you have to learn how to web search.
= About your initial problem: as mentioned by everyone else so far, part of the problem is in your head.
= Your OP is vague; it does not use terms; it is unclear; it does not describe things well.
= When people post on your thread, figure out what the new post is all about before posting again to be disputatious or argumentative. Web searching in the background will help you to Differentiate between those things that you will call problems and those things that are not worth pursuing.

Hth

davidrol,

Your post does not deserve response. Next time do not join the CONVERSATION unless you are invited.

"Your post does not deserve response. Next time do not join the CONVERSATION unless you are invited."

And yet, Footwedgie, you did respond. LOL.

Oops - I wasn't invited.

Sorry. (not really)

I don't think that craftsmanship ever existed in the sense that many people seem think of it. That is, there was never a time in which everyone completed work to an extraordinarily high standard. The same logic applies to most other things - cars, appliances, movies, art, etc. The things that are still around now are the ones that were built to a higher standard. All of the other stuff that wasn't built that well has long since been replaced and forgotten. So the only old things that people see are the ones that were well built and the get the idea that that was common, even though it wasn't.

Not that this excuses your installer. By all means make sure that he does his work properly. It just doesn't make sense to think that you could go back to some arbitrary time, grab a random person and expect that they would have done higher quality work than a random person now.

footwedge, I don't know if this will help, but...I cannot afford a KD or GC. I am doing most of the planning and DIY myself. That said, I trust my guys to do the stuff I can not do because we communicate. Sometimes brutally! He couldn't hang the cabs because the center beam was serverly sagging. He showed me the problem and fixed it. There is an issue with the ceiing did the best he could do with it. Perfect? Heck no! No way but nor is my house. I don't know the terminology, but I do know what the end result will look like. It's the finish kine. Not the process.

For me, at least it's all about trust. There are others who have posted nightmares, here. My soapstone guys templated today and were amazed at the levelness of the cabs. Serious man crush/contractor stuff going on here but it's working. I think it is more about personal integrity. The feeling of your people doing a job they will be proud of and LOVE doing. Jusr my 0.02 Good Luck!

Davidro1, please don't let posts like this put you off. Many people read and learn from your contibutions. You and other regulars are a great resource....thanks for your time.

Wow doc8404! I new when I planted this seed that someone would think they we're clever by calling out that I posted a reply when I stated it did not deserve one. So original and I hope you feel better.

Not sure why the attack. I thought this was a discussion forum where someone asks a question and you get a reply. Some of us who work a full time job and then work on their kitchen till midnight everynight might not have the time to search the web 24-7 looking for an answer that might be just a finger tip away otherwise.

If we can't ask a question and can find everything we need by searching the web then why does the great froum exist?

Footwedge, I'm a KD not a cabinet maker. :)

How you treat your light rail can vary from having it be flush with the cabinet door to maybe 1/2" beyond the door, depending on which molding you are using and how much detail you want. The same goes for the exposed box sides and the light rail. How you approach that also varies from flush to extending up to 1/2". Choosing how the light rail should sit is personal prefe rence along with design aesthetic. As long as the rail isn't flush with the cabinet box in front, anything you choose will look all right as long as it's consistant. However, whatever choice you make, the molding should be even and not 1/4" here and 1/2" there. That's sloppy if it's left like that.

Some of us who work a full time job and then work on their kitchen till midnight everynight might not have the time to search the web 24-7 looking for an answer that might be just a finger tip away otherwise

Nice.

Hint: The people you're asking for advice also have full time jobs. But your time is more important than theirs, I guess, so it's OK to use them as a dictionary.

Second hint: You're not the host here and it is well above your station to pretend to be able to "invite" people.

I think I see why you're having problems. Sometimes it's the contractor's fault, and sometimes people get the level of work they deserve.

Back on the original topic:

One of the things that impresses me about our contractor is that his finish guys are meticulous.

The crown and light rails are incredibly tight; the doors are all properly adjusted;the filler (where needed) is scribed tight to the wall, etc. I didn't have to point out a single thing. And if I do find something to call out, I have no doubt that they will apologize for missing it and do it right.

So there is craftsmanship left in the world -- you just have to know where to find it.

it's probably no surprise that they take *pride* in their work.

I sure don't understand the general not so nice tone towards the original poster here. I don't see anything originally said by this person that is wrong. I mean, come on, can't anyone say they aren't satisfied with the workmanship any more? I wouldn't be happy with the way the work was left either.

Thanks Live_wire-oak.

That's the point I thought I was making. Since I did not know the different ways to install the rail, I probably would not have said anything if they all matched but 2 of the 6 runs are flush while the others are 1/8" proud of the cabinet side.

See everybody, two can have a discussion on this site.