becca,
rather than the walk-in pantry, have you considered making that whole back wall floor to ceiling cabinets?

And then doing one of those 2 island layouts?

Just trying to think "outside the box"... ;-)

Becca06,

I really like #1 as it gives more counter space and you can never have too much even when you have a large island like you're planning. Looking at the space between the island and the adjacent counters and range, you may want to see if you can equalize it as much as possible. So instead of having 4' between sink and island and 4'7" between fridge side and island, you may want to do 4'3.5" on each side. The walkway between the island and the sink side of the kitchen where it merges into the diningroom seems a little tight at that corner. You also may want to lengthen the island to 9'. Almost 4.5' is a long distance between the range and the island. I'd be tempted to just expand the island in all directions to leave 45-48" on all sides for work space and walkway.

Another thought on the design would be to install a door on proposed plan #1 where you enter the desk area instead of at the pantry (or you could add it in addition to the pantry door)--you could do one of those decorative ones that is has full length frosted glass and has 'Pantry' etched into it. That way if you ever had any overflow of bulk items that didn't fit in the pantry or you just needed a temporary "dump" area that whole area could be utilized and closed off from view when needed. During your normal routine, you leave the door open and can see through into the desk area.

Love the idea of using the back wall of desk area as butler's pantry and window wall as office space for printer, phones, etc. I saw this done in a Parade of Homes house and it worked out really well.

You talked about putting the freezer in the pantry...but you've got a ton of wall space on the refrigerator side of the room. Why not get 1-36" all refrigerator and 1-36" all freezer and place them side by side on that wall. That way you don't take up pantry space and the freezer is within easy reach.

With a family of 6, have you considered adding a 2nd dishwasher either in the island or on the other side of the sink?

That's all I can think of right now. The changes I mention above would be personal preferences of mine. Looks like you're off to a great start! Good luck!

I can't tell how much counterspace you have beside the stove in option 2. If it's enough, I prefer that one. I think it's 2 ft, which would be my minimum.

One thing I'd sure change is to have the island closer to the stove. Mine is 3 ft away so that I can chop at the island next to the prep sink and turn easily to the stove...Not run back and forth. Since you have a range, I'd likely have the aisle at 42".

rhome--On the stove wall, I have 18'. If I subtract out the two end cabinets, I am left with 13'7". Taking roughly 3' per door entry, that leaves me with 7'7". Assuming a 36" stove, I should have about 2' 3.5" on each side of the stove.

We do need a second dishwasher and it will go in the island. We can change the length and position of the island to get it closer to the oven or cooktop. My husband is tall (6'8") and needs extra elbow room. We are probably going to go with a cooktop and double ovens, which are not on the plan yet.

I am thinking through the idea of a full size frig and a full size freezer. I need to figure out the cost of this.

Why a dw in the island? I would put one on each side of the sink...Of course, that's what I have now and love, so am biased. I split dw's in different locations before and it didn't work as well.

Why I like Option 2 is that I see the counter by the pantry entry as a great place to set up a baking center and use the mixer. This worked particularly well when I thought you were having a range and it would be close to the oven. I think it still works, and I'd put a wall oven where you show the fridge and the full size fridge and freezer across from the island on that same wall. (Have to watch to make sure the oven handle isn't a problem if you put the freezer next to it, though) The other option (and one I think I'd prefer) would be to put a broom closet, cookbook shelf, or something for the first 2 feet or so by the pantry doorway, then the freezer and fridge, then the baking center with oven across from the island, so you can use it for rolling, kneading, and space to fill cookie sheets, etc. Again, that's a set up I have that works.

Becca, is there any way you can do your next version on graph paper? It would really make it easier to understand.

I don't like option number 2. A big walk-in pantry like that is for storage, not daily use, so that door isn't mandatory, and it's in the way. I actually like the little desk/sitting area in option 1, but I don't think it's big enough to do Willowdecor's thing full on, and it will feel cramped. A sitting desk isn't a great thing to put there either, because the chair will be in front of the pantry door, though I like the window seat.

For your purposes, however, how about fitted cubbies underneath a window seat that wraps around the corner, with a printer pullout tray, a cubby with a couple of shelves, plus wiring, for the router, paper, etc., and a lateral file drawer on the other leg? Then hang a phone, cork board, white board, calendar, etc., on the rear wall, and maybe add a drop down stand-up writing surface. It could be done cute or chic, colorful or minimalist, but for some reason I'm seeing red and white broad striped cushions on the seat. :)

Where in the plans you show do you have upper cabinets? Where are the counters, and are there any floor to ceiling "pantry" cabinets?

BTW, my freezer is in the kitchen from necessity. It would useful to dislocate it to a pantry or something (it was in the laundry room of my previous home). But it's very nice having the freezer that convenient.

"A big walk-in pantry like that is for storage, not daily use"

This isn't true in our house, but I guess it depends on the person/family. We certainly go into our walk-in pantry daily...many times daily, in fact, even though we have most often used items at point of use. Our pantry not this large, but if it was or if the freezer was in there we'd access it even more. Besides bulk/excess/refill items, we also keep things in it for snacks, pets, etc. so find the opening in option 2 more appropriate where people are less likely to interfere with working areas. In the Option 1 location I can imagine people tromping through the prep/cooking area from the fridge or baking area to grab a snack or baking ingredients. Plllog and I evidently envision different approaches and different uses...So things to consider for your own use of the space, Becca.

I'll try and track down some graph paper and redraw it.

I didn't draw any upper cabinets because I wanted to get my walls and placement of major appliances figured out before I started on the cabinets. Also, I can make the desk area whatever size I want. And, I'm not opposed to putting a dishwasher on each side of the sink. If that works best, I'm all for it!

I think I prefer option #2, but I still need to tweak the desk area. Does it need to be larger? I can draw that wall wherever I need. I can also go with a range rather than a cooktop and double ovens. I should also mention that we would like to have seating on the island.

I know I need a lot of help and I REALLY appreciate everyone's contributions!

Rhome and I make a good pair because we generally see the opposite sides of things like how to use the pantry and where to put the door, and agree on the basics that make a kitchen function. :-D

What I meant by "not for daily use" wasn't that one wouldn't go in on a daily basis, but that one would generally use it for storage rather than the stuff one needs on a daily basis, because there's so much room for storage in the rest of the kitchen....though a bit less than I thought, because you want seating at the island.

The fridge where you've put it is in a pretty good location for the stove and prepsink, but it's a big thing to have in the middle of a counter run. I'd be tempted to make the length to the corner there "pantry" cabinets, that is, without a counter. That whole corner with counter could be useful, but who wants to work facing the corner when there are so many nicer places to stand? In option one, if the counter next to the stove ran all the way across, you could put an appliance garage there. For me, it would be a perfect place for the slow cooker.

My desk is 42", so your space looks great to me!

More thoughts on the desk...

Mine is too small (and it doesn't help that it doesn't have its upper storage yet). I not only wish for more width (5 or 6 ft would be fantastic and a dream), but also some work surface beside me...Like an L shape. As another reason I prefer Option 2, that I didn't think of before, I would NOT want to walk, or especially, have others walk my desk area whenever they went in and out of the pantry. I really envy that yours could be tucked back and out of the way (and out of sight) like that.

I have 3 teenage boys who eat me out of house and home. I can pretty much guarantee the pantry will be accessed multiple times a day. It will also serve as long term storage.

Rob--thanks for thinking outside the box! The dividing wall between the kitchen and pantry is a support wall. Enlarging the kitchen into the pantry space won't work.

I see the differing viewpoints as indication that I can't go wrong either way. That's a big relief!

I'll redraw it today using graph paper. I think I'm going to focus on design #2 for now.

As promised, here is my proposed kitchen (layout #1) on graph paper! I really do prefer layout #2. I think it might be the lack of corners. While drawing it on graph paper, though, I realized I really didn't have enough room to make it work. At minimum, I need an oven and a half. So, I need a range of at least 48" or a 36" rangetop and a spot for double ovens.

I placed an asterisk in a spot DH is thinking would could put the double ovens, which would allow enough space for layout #2 to work.

I do notice that the island won't work as is. There's a pinch point that I need to eliminate. We do hope to get seating for 4 in the island. One square = 1 foot

{{!gwi}}

In case it is helpful, here is the architect's starting point for the kitchen. I've changed a few things in my sketch: no view through, pantry wall to make more accessible, and location of prep sink.

{{!gwi}}

I don't understand why #2 won't work? Because you have the oven where the pantry doorway would be? In this #1 you've drawn, to be blunt, I don't like your oven location (makes the corner into a cave), or your dh's, since it will open across a doorway.

What is going on to the side of the fridge, where the 'view thru' was? Is there a reason you aren't utilizing that area for your fridge/freezer set and dbl oven?

Where are you planning the seating on the island? Not seeing it designated in the plan, I didn't realize you were trying to fit that in. In the architect's plan, the only aisle wide enough is between the island and the sink, but I sure wouldn't want seating there...

rhome--thank you for taking the time to respond. I need help!

I want #2 to work, but I can't figure it out. I need more than a single oven. That leaves me with either a rangetop and double ovens or a 48" range. If I have a separate entry into the pantry, I don't have the space for a 48" range. I can go with a 36" rangetop, but where would the double ovens go? I guess I can put them to the right of the frig, but is that too far away?

We do want seating in the island. Obviously, it won't work between the sink and island. I can move the island closer to the sink so we have space for seating between the island and frig wall, but then it creates a pinch point.

Shortened and moved the island. Put the pantry doorway where you want it. Reduced the pantry to make fridge/freezer alcove as a compromise to squeeze in seating. Added the oven...I'm still not sure what you plan for the space south of the oven, so I may have other suggestions, and/or specific suggestions for the areas above and below the oven on this plan, once I know.

It sounds like your house if similar to the one I grew up in accept we have even more boys 6 total all 5 years apart.

in drawing 1, I would put the rangetop on the island and the fridge where the rangetop is in your drawing. Your current layout has you walking around the island every time you need to get to the fridge and creates a ideal traffic jam. If you do this you create an ideal area for cooking and an ideal area for people to gather in the kitchen w/out getting in the way and giving them access to the pantry and fridge at the same time.

And just to throw other expensive things at you a dedicated ice maker might be nice too.

Why not one oven under the cooktop, a second oven under the counter elsewhere?

Or why not the double ovens at the end of the run in the bottom right corner? Or the fridge down there?

Personally I like the refrigerator in the most accessible location in the kitchen (accessible from outside the kitchen I mean), especially with kids in the house. In the last permutation which is nice in a lot of ways, it is actually in the least accessible location in the kitchen.
I'd rather have the ovens back there.

I actually like something like this, but was worried about the cook accessing the fridge with people seated at the island, and was trying to avoid that in the plan above.

The other option would be to put the fridge where I show the oven in this one and create a baking center on the long side of that, but that moves the oven farther from the stove, and with seated people at the island, the potential situation of lifting hot things over peoples' heads if moving a dish from stove to oven. You also lose the ability to use the island as baking work space if people are seated between baking ctr and island.

Just throwing a thought out there as I look at rhome's latest plan. What if you were to put the frig/freezer where rhome shows the range top? Then the access would be right by the pantry and not in the way of others who are seated. That way you'd have a long beautiful space for prep/cooking/baking and still easy access to the prep sink. I love the separate clean-up zone.

Here's another edit: The idea of the full ref & freezer in the pantry area works well. We'll also need a standard ref/freezer in the kitchen area. We currently have an extra full freezer and refrig in the garage.

I added a place for a single oven to go under the cabinets. Any comments on placement? I want the space to the left of the ref to serve as the baking center. I also need to find a space for the microwave. I was thinking it would be drawer style and go in the island.

{{!gwi}}

I would be afraid the cooking area would become a major thoroughfare if the rangetop was on the right wall and the fridge and pantry were in back... Here are a couple of other stabs using Remodelfla's idea for the fridge and freezer location. I really like the one with the sink on the right, but island seating is a problem...

Am I understanding that you want the baking ctr between the fridge and pantry, but the oven is on the other side of the fridge? I would put them together on the side where you show the oven. This seems OK, and the fridge plan is a lot like my kitchen (fridge and freezer near the pantry, and another all-fridge near the eating areas), but I have to say that I really like having my wall ovens at a more reachable and seeable height. This kitchen is so big, it seems a compromise you shouldn't have to make if you don't want to.

I like the second one too (sink on right). I don't like the oven location.

Maybe a 4 or 4.5 foot island depth and then would have room for seating in the aisle between island and sink in that one? With a 5.5 foot aisle, you could still open the dw when the chairs were occupied...

I wasn't too crazy about that oven location either, Bmore, but was trying to get it situated so the baking area also had good access to the prep sink, which, of course, needs to be by the stove and fridge... I would like the baking area at the south/bottom end of the plan (left of rangetop) so that the island can be used as part of the work space, but it's hard to get to either sink if someone else is cooking. With the oven moved down by the end wall, could centering the sink on the island to give work area on each side of it work better?

I do think the island could stand to be narrower enough to give seating room, although, personally I'm not sure I'd like 'sitters' right behind me in a work area. But it's all about compromises, and which ones work for you, Becca.

Actually, trying to imagine it, this plan seems like it would be OK. I would just get backless stools or something that wouldn't be too big a presence.

I am so design challenged and out of my element!

The 4 kitchen windows have to stay. We live in the rainy pac nw and need as much natural light as possible. So, the rangetop won't work on the left hand side....at least as far as I can tell.

We do have some flexibility on the back wall. DH tells me we can move it back into the office/pantry space if necessary.

rhome--I'm not sure why I thought the single oven had to go under the counter. I think I've looked at this for so long I'm no longer thinking clearly! That entire wall on the right side can have upper and lower cabinets. The wall oven can be placed up higher. The only restriction is that the wall isn't full cabinet width near the pantry. It jogs out at the location of the refrig. Does that make sense?

Oops! Sorry, forgot to add the windows back in in the last plan. They would just be organized around the rangetop and hood, but you could still have lots of window. Would that work?

Did I know before that you're in the PacNW? Me, too! Not too rainy lately, though. What a fantastic summer after it finally arrived!

I think you are getting closer I drew up something close to what you have done so far maybe it will help you w/ more ideas.

{{!gwi}}

This gives you the ability to cook prep and enjoy your family w/out them being in the way and you not having to walk around the island to get to the fridge. Why you are cooking family and guest can easily access the fridge pantry and microwave.

Your island is roughly 45 square feet. The induction cooktop takes up 6sq ft physically but we will say 8 usable sq ft. You have around 12-15 sq ft for the baking area near the prep sink and roughly 25 sq ft of real estate for seating and decorating.

I don't know just some ideas.

The cooktop won't work in the island because dh is 6'8". The vent hood would be a visual barrier for him to talk to anyone seated at the island.

I'm curious, why the preference for the frig & freezer to be on the center wall rather than the range? The kitchen will be open to the great room and that wall will be more of a focal point than the other walls. A range with a custom vent hood would probably be prettier than a frig & freezer, but if it won't work what about this:

Basically flip the plan. Keep the frig/freezer on the center wall. Put range on the right hand side of kitchen. Put sink and dw in the island so that you are facing windows when cleaning up. Put seating on window side of island. I'll graph and repost.

The addition wall with windows is already framed so to change it at this point to place the range on the left side of the kitchen will be $$$.

I have 5 brothers so 8 people in one house and the fridge created a constant traffic jam. My idea w/ the fridge on the back wall was you don't have to walk all the way around the massive island to get to the fridge and makes it accessible from both the working side and the family side of the kitchen keeping the family out of the working side and giving them full access to fridge pantry and MW.

You don't need an extravagant vent hood just do a ventilation similar to what is used in bathrooms w/ an induction range. All you need to do is remove odor you don't have the extreme heat.

Becca, if I'm understanding that correctly, you'd have the sink on the opposite side of the island from the cooktop and you'd have seating behind the cook?

I wasn't necessarily favoring the fridge and freezer on the back wall, but taking a suggestion and offering another functional option. It offers more counter beside the stove, but I could go for either my last plan with the sink on the right (with windows), or your plan with the stove on the back wall (with the right oven). They each have their own sets of plusses and minuses.

I wouldn't want the range on the righthand wall, because I can see snackers and others tromping through the cooking area to get to the fridge and pantry, and that defeats the purpose of separate zones...and the cooking zone is the most important one to protect from interference. Because it's a busy place where timing and maneuvering is important, and because you are moving quickly, wielding sharp and hot things, injuries are most possible. That kind of cross-traffic is sometimes unavoidable, but not in a kitchen like yours (new and big with other options). It is something I worked very hard to prevent in my kitchen, and I am so very glad that I did.

(You definitely wouldn't want seating on the stove side of the island where you can trip over or back into it, and will be blocking your access to workspace.)

This is what I was describing:
{{!gwi}}

DH drew this up at work:
{{!gwi}}

OH! I misunderstood... sorry! I didn't realize the windows were on the left side of the kitchen. In your drawing does the 48" range also house the ovens? I see a potential conflict if you had to open a range oven door when someone is at the sink for sure.

With DH's plan... I really like the desk area though I'd worry about access to the frig/freezer if someone was sitting. Plus, I'd like some pantry storage in the kitchen work area.

The bad news? In your plan, only one task can be done at a time by one worker...If someone is cooking, no one else can really use the sink or access the dishwashers without causing great disruption. You have one whole wall of your kitchen that doesn't do much for you, and you don't have your wall oven, which also makes the cooking area and baking area in the same spot. I love that in our kitchen, one can cook while one bakes...And I don't have a hot oven against my legs while I cook, or have to get so low to the floor to get things out or check them. I also would hate to give up the drawers right under the rangetop for pots and pans. Just one woman's opinion, though.

In your dh's plan the corner range takes more room than it does in other locations, and forces the island to be so far away that it won't be much help as a prep area. The prep sink needs to be closer to the cooking area and fridge, but that's easy.

Neither of these are terrible, but just don't seem to give you the most of what you can achieve in this space.

{{!gwi}}

Even with a smaller island, this is kinda the issues with the dh version--

Pantry door is farther.
Orange lines are doors/drawers open. Notice the ref and freezer and the cooktop corner.
Backup from the cooktop and part of your anatomy can hit the corner of the island.
Off facing corner for cooktop guarantees that the cook will have no visual connection to others in the kitchen. That back is firmly turned.
If the stools are in the work aisle, the refs are impossible.