bmore - Well, I know what you mean. I just dont know what we could do about it. What would you suggest? I really hate to close up the NW side of the kitchen.

I don't know. Rhome is the brains, I'm the trouble maker. I wish we could call up sweeby, too.

Is this all still just paper plans?

Hopefully, Sweeby will weigh in. There've been a number of good layouts posted, the question being what really suits you? If this is it, and potential traffic irritations are the biggest drawback, how about training your family to bear left and stay out of cook's territory? You could tape a line on the floor for them to follow.

Have you seen margieb2's kitchen? She has an angled peninsula similar to the one bmorepanic drew.

Here is the link:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0722383431827.html

Its still on paper for now. Im going to finalize it today though. The one that works best for me so far is this one...

As rosie said, people would just have to make a left. Its not the shortest route to the family room through the kitchen and it may not feel the most natural, but I dont think a few extra steps will be that bad.

If I put the peninsula on the left side it kind of looked like this...

Which makes the kitchen space a whole lot smaller. About 7-7 1/2 ft of floor space with no island. Like rhome said earlier, only a 1 person kitchen.

Yes I have admired Margieb's kitchen. I even printed out her layout. I would need to put my U on the left though and by doing that I wouldnt have as much space as her.

So far, Rhome has approved the two L's. I think because the island works to direct the traffic and protects the cooking area.

Any other ideas?

Builder just called an changed our appt to finalize the kitchen from today to Monday. I have 3 more days to drive myself crazy now!!!

I wouldn't mind about the left turn, except for the fact that this is the major route to tv!

Please forgive if you've already rejected this, but it's another orientation of kitchen in the space. Sorta shows choice of two different large islands, a square one in the traditional black and a more swoopy, bigger one with gray lines.

{{gwi:1927976}}

bmore - There will be a TV in the great room to the left. Its not meant to be some formal space. It will be mostly where we hang out. The family room space beside the dining area is going to be mostly for the kids. A playroom/hangout space for them. That way the adults can have a hang out space to themsleves when needed :)

Let me study what you just posted. Its a little more open to the great room than what I may be comfortable with. Id like to maybe have a little more privacy in the kitchen. Its definitely a fresh idea, so let me look...

bmore - The biggest problem I see is the distance from the fridge to the cooktop. Also, wouldnt people be prone to walk in the space in front of the cooktop from the great room? I dont see a place for any type of pantry storage. Or is that on the north side of the fridge? And when washing dishes I would be facing a wall.

It is a fresh perspective. I though about completely opening it up like that, but Im just not sure I would like being that exposed. I could also make a big island with seating running the length of the kitchen. Im not a big fan of a raised bar, so it would have to be all flat. Just gathering my thoughts here....

Keep on gathering them thoughts! This time you're spending, sifting and refining and sleeping on it, is all helping you figure out what you want and need in your kitchen. I see a whole lot of progress.

I like bmore's latest, although I understand your wish to keep the kitchen a little more hidden from the more formal of your living spaces, as I feel that way, too. I do like that the stove is protected from view, and the main sink is on the opposite side, so also not as obvious, visually, from the great room...and that would be a cool-looking island. :-)

My plan...way back up at the top...tried to utilize your wish to keep the peninsula and give traffic a straighter path through. I voted for the L's once you expressed the need for a coffee bar location and better dish storage on the wall, and it provided you that. It's just one of those things where you have to consider which is a bigger priority, and I thought you'd enjoy more having the storage and counter than you would be aggravated by traffic snaking through. Most plans require compromises and only you can judge which you're willing to make.

As far as appearance of the shallow wall, since you've indicated an interest in a Craftsman look and white and inset, I can see the lowers being maybe 15" deep with counter, then the 12" deep uppers with glass doors coming down to the counter...looking kind of hutch-like.

"As far as appearance of the shallow wall, since you've indicated an interest in a Craftsman look and white and inset, I can see the lowers being maybe 15" deep with counter, then the 12" deep uppers with glass doors coming down to the counter...looking kind of hutch-like."

This is exactly what I was thinking. I dont know why, but Im drawn to this plan. I think because of the hutchlike storage feature, it would really make the kitchen feel like Im wanting it to feel. I dont want anything really modern and Im afriad with having it completely open it will feel like that. Also, I think the view from the great room to the cook top wall could be very attractive. I still get a nice size island, still get to overlook the great room when cleaning up, have a nice little coffee nook, and I have the seating at the peninsula.

The negatives Im seeing are the possible traffic flow issue and the fridge being on the south end. Do the positives out weigh the negatives? Does anyone else even like this plan? Or is it just me LOL

It seems that we could never get the fridge out of the south end and keep the peninsula that was a 'must have,' so that was pretty much settled with that decision early on. Also, you've heard the negative and seem to be content living with it to have the other things. You are really 'feeling' this plan, which the others you haven't. That's a big plus and a big clue that you are on the right track. You realize the negatives and can deal with them, it seems. (ALL kitchen plans have compromises and possible negatives.) I happen to love walls like you're planning and don't think you'll be lacking counter space to have it instead of regular uppers and lowers. If I was ever redoing my kitchen plan (hopefully will never have to), I'd try to have one of those walls for dish storage.

The only thing you're taking away is landing space right across from the fridge, so because of that, I would probably opt to stick with a one door fridge that hinges on the right, rather than a Fr door so you can easily move things to the island without a door in the way.

Based on the functional layout, the fact that it includes your highest priorities, and your excitement, I give it my thumbs up, and think you have come a long way from the original plan.

Well instead of the french door fridge I could get something cool like this...

You do make a point about landing space. The island isnt too far away, that will have to be the spot. I think its going to work

Now, would you somehow put the microwave in the shallow area or the island? I dont know if I want an ugly microwave in such a pretty hutch. I could stick it on the end of the island facing the south wall?

Where would you put the silverware drawer and trash cabinets? Can you put a trash cabinet under the prep sink? I think I would like one trash cabinet in the island or peninsula and one over by the DW.

You have been SO much help rhome, I cant believe I got your seal of approval! All of you have been very informative. Im so glad I found this place :)

Please don't think of it as my 'seal of approval'...makes me sound too important and it's your kitchen. Only your final seal of approval counts.

I have always loved that fridge.

I don't think you can fit a pullout trash under the prep sink because of plumbing, but could have a trash bin, probably even one that fastens to the door so is there when you open it. I think I'd probably put one trash on the right of the sink, and put silverware in the top drawer to the left of the dishwasher or put drawers in the top of the base hutch cabs.

How did we miss the microwave? That is one spot you lost when you switched the fridge and made the shallow hutch. Do you use it much? Do you mind having it low in the island? Would you get a regular one or a drawer unit? Having it close to the fridge and a sink is a good plan, so the island location would meet those criteria. I like it higher and use ours a LOT, so if it were me that might be one thing that made me go back to the other 2 L's plan. For you, it's back to considering which things are most important to you and which compromises you want to choose.

Well I can put the microwave on the end of the island facing north in either a 24" or 30" cabinet. Then I could have an 18" cabinet facing the cook top for trash and an 18" cooktop facing the cooktop for the prep sink.

OR I can put the microwave in a 30" or 24" shelf above the cabinetry that runs beside the DW.

I think in the island it would be more convenient to the fridge and stove. I dont think I like the Sharp MW drawer beacause I feel like liquid would spill when you open and close it and it sounds also as if its shallow. Id prefer it above the base cabinets but I think it may be too far away in the main sink area. Im short, only 5' tall so it might not be a big deal to have it in the island. Better for the kids too.

I cant figure out what to do with the left hand corner. I was thinking about running upper cabinets straight to the end on the left side run. Then having a little seperation between the last upper and where the hutch uppers start.

For the hutch I was thinking two 36" bases, a short 15" on each side sitting on the counter and then two 30" uppers above that. So it would leave a 30" space in the midddle on the counter.

Does any of that make sense?

I think it'll be fairly uncomfortable to actually use.

Imagine sprinting to the kids to break up an argument by navigating around the island and peninsula. Imagine trying to cook with the girls when your aisles are too narrow for multiple cooks. Imagine trying to entertain with everyone in the kitchen. Imagine your kids endlessly wandering from tv to play area to ref to bedroom to play area to micro to play area...

I'm not too worried about lots of storage in the kitchen - you have a seven foot wide, twelve foot long hallway you can fill with storage.

I wish there was a route to dining and a route to play area that didn't require a hallway through the kitchen(actually two hall ways). Wish the kids bedrooms could slide north and the playroom slide south.

While I don't think 12" deep is enough for a micro, I was thinking you could put build it in just at counter top level in that hutch area, maybe on the far left side and then for that section have the glass cabs above it. I saw a pic like that in a magazine and it really wasn't offensive at all. It wasn't an enormous micro, but it really did blend into the hutch cabinet.

I'm going to have to go hide under my bed or at least have a good, long time out for being an idiot. I admit to not looking past the kitchen enough. I got too involved only in kitchen wants and not the rest of the house, because of starting this thread only looking at the kitchen. Bmore's right that the mud room can take a lot of storage and it looks like you might be able to reconfigure the mudroom and laundry to do a lot for you that way. I had made the straight path in the original island plans to protect the cooktop area from traffic in a previous thread, but completely forgot that there are bedrooms over there by the time we got to this discussion. I was thinking of all that end as being utility area and of traffic coming in from the garage, but not at all thinking of traffic from bedroom to family room and back. That was a huge oversight on my part and I apologize. Good thing bmorepanic is paying better attention.

I am totally flaking out on you, but I'm back to preferring my island plan above, but with pantry storage across the hall and dish storage and coffee counter where I had pantry...and with the dw on the left side of the sink. (You still have to route around the peninsula to get to the family room, but with that exterior corner north of the kitchen, I'm not sure how to fix that) Bmore's plan from yesterday without the island is good and addresses that, but I'm not sure if you can get to the family room around the peninsula from the great room.

Bmore, you think the the aisle widths are too narrow? I thought 3'6" was the recommended for multiple cooks. I have 4' aisles and think I could definitely do with 42" even with my crowd.

bmore - Ive had the suggestion to change the playroom to the south before. Heres the thing. I really want to keep the family room facing the back of our lot. It can be used for many things in the future. A sunroom/sitting area, an office, a playroom, a family room, etc. If I switch it with one of the bedrooms, that space only becomes a closed off bedroom. The only thing I could do to change that would be to make a hallway along side the kitchen wall from the bedroom wing to that room. It would make our largest secondary bedroom quite small. Unless I made the width of the family room smaller and gave that to the bedroom we created a hallway in. But the family room is already at 14' right now.

What would you do?

Im glad I didnt meet with the builder today LOL.

Your ORIGINAL island plan. Looking at that, here is what I dont like. Ok so we move all pantry storage to the hallway. Thats ok, I guess I can handle that. I would like to have some storage "inside" the kitchen, even if its small. Also, Im not sure I like the view from the peninsula looking south. Going to be staring at half a wall and a mud room. It bugs me.

If we are trying to perfect this, we still have the fridge in the unpreferred south. I dont know what to do.

Now, I realy dont care if I have a peninsula or an island or both. I just want to be able to have some sort of seating somehwere for atleast 3 people.

Bmore's plan gives us the fridge in the north, but I can see people wanting to walk from the great room through the cook top area to the fridge. And the fridge seems really far from cooking.

HELP!

You have quite a bit of storage in the peninsula that, as far as I know, has no particular assignment yet. In this size kitchen, unless you open it up the way bmorepanic suggested, I don't know how to get you an island with seating for 3, so that's why I kept working with the peninsula.

I don't know how to have perfect views out every side of the kitchen. All of the focus is toward the great room, the windows in the dining room, and any people at the bar, plus concentrating on the tasks at hand, so I don't know why you'd ever really look toward the mud room. The half wall could have photos or artwork. The mudroom will probably be dark most of the time? I don't know what to say there. It's the family entrance and will probably look like one. The good thing is that with good storage units and maybe some lockers or something, it should be able to look fairly neat...The advantages of it being wide and connected to the laundry area.

In some plans you show the doorway to the mud room narrowed with the pantry beside it, facing the kitchen. This would give you a view of the blank wall (as I said usable for art or photos...We like to hang maps), the doorway, and whatever doors you put on the pantry. Utilitarian maybe, but not unsightly, I don't think.

I see what you mean about people coming through from the great room in Bmorepanic's last plan, but I was saying her earlier plan had merit, if you can pull back the peninsula enough to get the path you need to the dining and family room. I think you can, but it might mean moving the pantry across the hall again.

All in all, this comes down to your priorities. We can only point out possible problems and offer up suggestions of the ways we might do things. We don't want you saying, "Why didn't they tell me?" You will live with the pluses and minuses of the plan and should really think them through and prioritize them for yourself. It doesn't matter if we're happy, but if you are...and that's our goal in helping you, even if it isn't always good news.

If your plan is from an architect, as opposed to a plan service, I'd explain the issue to him/her and see what they thought. It looks like there could be a bump out to compensate for the passage by the smaller bedroom.

Exchanging the spaces makes the most sense from a space perspective. You don't have as much of a hallway through the kitchen and the dining room and the kids have a place to hide out while you're entertaining with good access to kitchen. It can become a dual study later for the young women.

It gives the kids a place "of their own" when they have guests - without driving you crazy. Its second big advantage is that the kid clutter, school clutter and teenage clutter isn't on full display from the dining room.

42" is the minimum suggested aisle for a single cook kitchen, 48" is the minimum aisle for a multi-cook kitchen. Lots of people think they're perfectly comfortable with less and lots of people would rip out a kitchen with less.

I'm the latter type. I rented an apartment once with a kitchen that was "U" shaped around a three foot center aisle. I like about to died - as my mother would have said. It must have something to do with arm reach and personal sense of space.

Oh my sister Two!! I totally feel your pain. This sucks, huh? Of course, then we have to remind ourselves that if planning our kitchen is the worst of our problems then our hell is another woman's heaven :o)

The two L's plan you have reminds me alot of the plan I am looking at. We had talked about doing the two entrances on the same side of the room like you did in one of your layouts, but I just can't "get it", ya know. Then I went to a friends house for help (because I seriously have kitchenitis) and didn't even remember that her kitchen is layed out very similiarly - well except for the fact that it's like a mongo mansiony house... Anyway, she said she loves her double L with island. 42" space around. Island serves as kind of a barrier for cook zone. Lived with it like that 20 years, wouldn't change it except to maybe raise the bar area.

That made me feel soooo much better. I think just seeing it in real life helped alot. I had to just put it down for a little bit and decompress. I realize that you may not have that luxury, but, like all of the wise ones have said, this is YOUR kitchen. You've gotten so much great advice here (wish I could add, but I'll probably never know what rhome, bmore, buehl, and others know) and lots of awesome ideas - and I'm sure more are to come. If you let the stress get to you, you are likely to make a decision out of frustration to just get it over with (well, if you're like me that is) :o)

My double L with island makes sense to me. It may not to everybody, but I think I'm going to go with it because I can see it. I want so desperately for everyone here (who I've never met, nor probably will...lol...I'm such a dork) to approve because I so respect their opinions, but at the end of the day, it's my decision to make, and like you that scares the pants off of me :o)

Now, as a woman, I'm free to change my mind right up until the day my cabinet guy orders my wood. But I've decided I've got to believe in my ability to make a good choice for me :o)

Now, back to looking at both plans side by side for the 100th time...haha...

Oh for goodness sakes I cant take it! I need to breathe. Breathe in.....breathe out....

rhome - The plan you like is basically the one I like with the precious hutch removed. I know its weird for me to be worried about views. Im just thinking of the people sitting at the peninsula and what they are looking at as well. I may be able to put a pocket door on the mudroom entrance for its not so well kept moments. Im mourning the hutch.

bmore - I am laughing because you seem to tell me all of the things I do not want to hear. You know like when your parents would tell you stuff "for your own good". Its all completely logical. The drawings are done by the builder himself. I sit down with him in his office and we change things. And believe me we have made MANY changes. I cant change the square footage of the plan. I have to steal from somewhere else to make changes. That family room right now has a beautiful cathedral ceiling and view. I really hate to make it a bedroom :(. If I created a hallway it would make the other bedroom 11 X 11 instead of 11 X 13'8. I could change the family room to a 12 X 15 instead of a 14 X 15. I just think that may be too small.

jnjmom - Thank you for your support! Yes, this is waaaay more stressful than I could have imagined. When does the fun begin? Its good to hear you like the two L's. Do you have the same situation with bedrooms or other room access?

Im clueless. Right now Im looking at bmores open island plan. How can I change it to make it more of what I want?

Go with what's important to you, Twogirls. You're designing a kitchen for yourself. Nice that you have a couple more days to percolate some more. (For what it's worth, having nice views in all directions is high on my list too. Satisfying that need was an important function my home had to serve.)

Many of us have lived with kitchens over the years that were not ideal. Even now, in my own remodel, we debated for months knocking down the back wall and expanding the kitchen. It would have helped so much as my kitchen is narrow (13ft), but after getting estimates and thinking about how long that particular remodel would take and how much it would cost, we decided to work within the existing space. So, I will live with another, less than ideal kitchen. But I have a beautiful home with lovely views, and a wonderful husband and children, so LIFE IS GOOD!

Tell yourself that as you feel the pressure of your impending deadline and have to think through all these plans. Sit down for a few minutes and clear your head. Ask yourself what is important to YOU in a kitchen and all the connecting rooms and then make a list. I did that with my kitchen designer and together we came up with what works best for our family in our kitchen. Ideal would have meant expanding, but when this is done, it will be a very nice kitchen.

I think if you do that, the talented people here on GW will be able to zero in on what compromises need to be made to help design the best kitchen for you and your family.

I do have the same issues with traffic patterns. The fabulous GWers have pointed that out to me - and it makes perfect sense what they are saying, I'm not discounting that AT ALL. It's why I'm struggling with my decision so much, when before I posted my layout, I thought it was perfect...rofl...

But I guess in my mind's eye, I can see the traffic coming in and going around the non-cookzone side of the island and out, never disturbing the cook (me). Now, my little ones are 9 & 13, so they are a bit more 'trainable' (although that's debateable..haha) to not go to the left side of the island to pass through - seems like that makes perfect sense, if someone is standing at the cooktop, wouldn't you choose the path of least resistance? DH is the one I worry more about as he will always choose to pass through where he might have the opportunity to rub, squeeze, or stroke :o)

I'm also concerned with making all views pleasing and I'm the first to (sheepishly) admit, I'm making some decisions in favor of form over function.

Will I regret that? Only time will tell. You could wait about two years and I'll let you know :o) However, either way, I'm so glad to have this forum to discuss these issues, because even if I choose the least preferred plan, I have a clue of what to expect and I know that I made a well informed decision.

jnjmom - I searched for your layout and I have actually compared yours to mine before LOL. You have a little more width than I do, plus you can make your left side longer. Anyways, similar situation with traffic. Im definitely debating the form over function. Ive never had a nice kitchen. Especially not a sizeable one. Every kitchen I have lived in has been NARROW (like 8-9 ft wide) and closed off from the rest of the living areas. I hate them. You cant get other people in comfortably. It really doesnt work with parties. My kids are 4 & 8. Hoping for one more, God willing.

pluckymama - You're right, I need to reorganize my thoughts. I really liked my veto'd plan and Im still mourning it. Not that I cant just go with it anyways, but there could be something "better". I think I need to go walk through some kitchens and see what I like. They are having a parade of homes today in our area, so maybe I'll go check out their kitchens. My kitchen just seems really difficult to work with for some reason.

rosie - Thank you for your kind words. Im glad I have a couple more days yet :)

Ok lets look at Bmore's plan...

I like it BUT I think the fridge is just too far from the cooktop. I could switch the cooktop and the sink which would be perfect for the cook (fridge to the left DO to the right)except the line of traffic would be right through the cooking area, right? If I was to make an L there to protect it you couldnt put a DO oven at the end.

So what else could I do? Any ideas?

Here are the things I would LOVE to incorporate in my kitchen...

1. Open to great room and dining room. Doesnt have to be completely open, but would like a view.

2. Seating for 3-4 inside the kitchen with a flat surface no raised bars. Be it island or peninsula, whatever.

3. The usual appliances - DO, REF, DW, SINK, MW

4. A coffee and/or breakfast area which could contain a coffeemaker, espresso maker, coffee supplies, mugs, toaster, some food storage.

5. A dish hutch for my cups and dish storage with glass doors on top.

6. I would prefer to have a sink facing something other than a wall, but might not be able to achieve that. Id prefer not to have the main sink in an island b/c of space, water splashing issues and having nowhere to set the dishes I just washed to air dry. I dont want to clutter up the island/peninsula.

7. Symmyetry is important to me.

8. Space. I dont want to feel cramped in the kitchen. Especially when we have guests.

I can either have 9 ft ceilings in the kitchen or I can continue the cathedral in the great room through to the kitchen.

Are you set on the DO's? If you did a range, you'd gain extra vertical space that you could use for a hutch like piece. If you want a hutch like cabinet with glass doors in it to store your dishes, it has to be near to the clean up area. Otherwise you're going to be doing a lot of walking to put your dishes away. Or, you could put the frig where the DO's are and if you eliminate those, put the dish hutch where the frig is, near the dining area. You could maybe also make that your coffee area with your mugs over there.

What if you turned the island so it's horizontal to the clean up area? Seating on the great room side.

Not sure if it would fit, but what if you did either a buffet type cabinet or a hutch like cabinet separating the kitchen from the dining area. It could mirror the length of the cooktop area.

malhgold - Great ideas!

If I did a range I dont think I would want it to be 36", which is what Im planning for the size of the burner area. I dont think I need to heat that much space for most of what I make. Ive went back and forth on the DO thing. I feel like if Im going to get them, the time is now. I could drop them, but Im afraid I will regret it. I host Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve along with other get togethers. Plus it would be nice to cook two seperate dishes at different temps.

I think Bmore was trying to get the fridge in the north beacause of its accessibility to the family room and dining room. But like I said, its just too far from the cooking. I could maybe put it beside the DO and slide the cleanup area north?

Then I could maybe fit a hutch like thing all the way on the north end. It would make the dishes convenient to the dining room.

I dont think I want to build any structure between the dining room and kitchen because the dining room is where all my natural light is coming from. No windows in the kitchen :(

You could do a range and a single oven, and install the single oven in the island. You could do a range and an advantium(speed cook oven about the size of a microwave).

Not really sure if you have space on that wall for DO, frig and a hutch. Guess you'll have to play around with it.

If you feel you need extra storage, but don't want a hutch like piece separating the DR and kitchen, you could do lower cabs(like a buffet) and maybe a column at the end from the counter to the ceiling. Might be a nice decorative element. Don't know if it would work with the style of your house, but would sort of "give a reason" for that buffet piece to be there.

How about this? I think it meets a lot of your requirements, but the dish storage, if kept in the hutch, is across the doorway from the dw. You could move the sink and dw down toward the dish storage, or use the hutch for pantry and the cabs to the left of the dw for dishes.

The cooktop is still in a centered type of position, but a little tight. You could possibly consider moving ovens or frig to the sink wall, but there are difficulties to weigh with those options, too.

Anyway, it's another try:

Wouldnt the fridge be veto'd in that position because its not accessible to the other rooms? And yeah that really makes the cooktop area tight. I tried drawing sorta that same thing out except I put the fridge on the sink wall and then thought it was way too far from cooking. That hutch sure does look prrrrty :)

What do you think of Bmore's plan rhome?

Here is the same plan with oven moved to give the cooktop more room. The frig could move, but then it gets far from the stove. I also adjusted the doorway and hutch so that when the oven door is open no one is coming around the corner into it.

As far as the frig 'being veto'd', that is completely up to you. If you're willing to give up other wants, that's your decision. I said before that if you want the peninsula, and want the openness to the great room, the frig doesn't have a home at that end. And I don't know how to get you 3 seats without a peninsula.

Bmore's plan: You dismissed at as too open and too contemporary, so I'm trying to stay within those guidelines. I said yesterday that I thought it was a cool island plan. I'm not into open kitchens so am less able to judge on things like that. I have the same concern you expressed about accessibility to the fridge while cooking.

I was able to get the island a little longer with this plan. I didn't change it in the first version, but did in the 2nd. Will give you a little more space around the prep sink.

I like both these adjustments Rhome's come up with to your own favorite plan. They're both very workable and very attractive kitchens.

I would like to point out, though, that I also liked your initial version and underline that you yourself never vetoed it--a big point. These new versions alter where the kids enter the kitchen a bit but don't make the journey any shorter. Which is okay--kids run around all day anyway, and they still have a nice circular flow through the great room to keep them close and happy in their perambulations. Training them to stay out of your cooking area would be a little easier with these changes (your husband's obviously a lost cause), but a firm no would keep them out on your original plan too. Since that's a hazardous area, it should be pretty easy to take a strong stand there.

So it seems you have three excellent options to consider for their tradeoffs, your plan and two very close variations on it. You weren't mourning other plans when they were put aside, so unless you belatedly fall in love with one of them, I'd suggest setting them aside in favor of what really pings for you.

If you do go with the rounded peninsula on the dining side, you should make sure you have enough aisle space for both stools and chairs at the table. I'm assuming that will be the walkway to the family room. You should make sure that if someone is sitting at the peninsula and at the table that someone could walk thru that area.

Thank you rhome for showing me the two other options. I think I still prefer the original.

malhgold - yeah I do worry about that walking space.

What about this with Bmore's plan? Its a smaller hutch (I have it at 30", but its convenient to the dining space. Coffee would go on the counter space beside it, there's about 42" before you hit the sink. The fridge is closer to cooking and you can still walk from the family room to get to it without invading the cooking space. The only thing is I bet people will walk right through the cooking area from the great room to get to the fridge. Don know what else to do there. I could build a wall or something, but that would probably look stupid.

Heres another one I played with...

(dont mind my bad pics with shadows)

Have you ever thought of making it more like a galley kitchen. Long island in the middle(with clean up sink-I know not your first choice, but I'm not sure how it much differs from being on the peninsuala facing the Great Room), Frig in the upper left corner near DR, cooktop in the middle and double ovens at the south end of that run. You could do upper cabs on either side of the cooktop for glass storage. You'd have plenty of storage in the island for dishes. Do you think the majority of the traffic is going to that family room to the right of the DR or to the Great Room?

I guess that would eliminate your hutch though, unless you put a freestanding one where the cooktop was being planned on the south wall. If you moved the clean up sink further south on the island, you could use the hutch for your dishes.

Yeah! I got tossed - no fair going backsies!

I like rhomes latest except for the position of the oven. If that opening was a bit larges towards the coffee wall and the oven went to the north end next to a small pantry, then the closet with the hall way opening?

SOUTH, I meant south!
Dagnabit.

bmore - Im totally confused as to what you are saying??? Can you draw it or something?

I'm not sure if I understand Bmore's suggestion either, but I'm okay with the oven location as long as you have identified where you would work when baking. I would center the doorway in the wall space between the ovens and the hutch though. I have my ovens turned at a doorway similar to that and have only 3-4" of wall on each side -- just enough to not have the oven handles sticking out into the opening and to allow the crown to turn the corners.

I was thinking Malhgold might have come up with the same thought I had when I started reading that post, but my thougt was a different take. I was sondering about making the kitchen a galley with an open side towards the great room and instead of an island, create a hallway behing it with shallow storage -- kind of a shallow pantry and butler's pantry while takingthe traffic flow out of the work areas. I haven't drawn up anything, so I don't know if it works -- just a concept to throw out there.

malhgold - I think the greatest amount of traffic will be going to the Great Room. Im not sure what a galley kitchen would look like. I just dont want it to feel small and I want to be able to have multiple people "in" the kitchen.

lascatx - With the galley you are speaking of, are you saying have no island at all? I would want to have some sort of seating. Can you explain further? Where would the butler's pantry be?

{{gwi:1927987}}

I was trying to save the hutch wall, but Bmorepanic's version makes more functional sense...Especially if you're willing to cut the hutch to 30". 30" won't give that same look at all, so I'd only have it if doing a hutch style gives you enough more storage to exceed the benefit of having more counter. It seems that 30" of hutch is pretty limited for dish storage. I have almost 4 ft and wish I had a bit more for bowls and serving pieces, like platters and pitchers, the cake plate, etc. We do have a big family, but only have one set each of flatware and dishes (no china or silver), and don't have kiddie cups and dishes any more, so I'm not sure we need more dish storage than most other families.

Can I swap the oven and the pantry? And make the pantry the hutch? Or is that a problem with opening the DO in front of the fridge and vice versa?

No, I don't think so. You could try taking some of the sink wall for a hutch - it makes more sense there anyway. The reason is depending on your ref choice, it takes space to open its doors fully.