Wow, your kitchen is the closest I have seen (space-wise and layout) to my new one (our doorway is the back door).

A few tricks we used:

We narrowed doorways (the main one to 32", and the one leading to the small office to 24") to allow for more cabinets. We used tall pantry cabinets instead of a built in pantry (to save space).

We used a larger single bowl sink instead of 2 (works for us), and I really like the DW to the left of the sink and the trash pullout b/n the sink and stove.

One of the things we really wanted was more light, so we opted for a wall of windows.

Putting the fridge at one end will give you an expanse of counterspace (In your space, I would say by the DR, and you could possibly use the back side of the fridge for books).

How tall is the ceiling in your room?

Here is a link that might be useful: rubyfigs kitchen adventure

Did you see the READ ME FIRST topic that lurks on the first page of threads? It includes instructions for embedding pictures.

The books on the stair enclosure sounds great! Re the "possible pantry", if it's going to remain a bathroom, check your local building code. Many require two doors between a kitchen and bath (e.g., hall door and bathroom door).

I like the trash by the door. :) Just for comfort, I feel like the sink should be a little to the right, though unless you want to put a little towel hanger slot between the sink and trash that wouldn't really work. But I really do think that the secondary sink is a waste of cabinet space unless you're currently always elbowing each other to get sink room. It would be easy enough to wash veg at the main sink, then cut them on the counter across the way, using a bowl or compost can for the ends and peelings. Or maybe put two faucets on one large two bowl sink? (Just an idea...)

Where are your ovens?

I also think there's a problem with the locations of the stove and fridge. When someone is actively cooking whoever comes in to open the fridge is going to really disturb her.

Can you vent up? If so, I'd move the stove to the middle of the bottom wall and the fridge to more or less where the stove is--or farther toward the DR if possible. That way all the appliances that open don't open into each other, and people can zigzag around them.

Since you're opening into the DR, it might also be nice to turn some of the end cabinetry. It opens things up, and cabinetry is often more attractive from the front than the side. It seems to me that the beverage area (coffee and ice), facing into the DR, might be much more convenient for the users, keep them out of the kitchen, and be better looking than the slab end. Assuming the ice is panelled or behind a cabinet door. (Just making sure...you know those icemakers don't chill the made ice, right? It's a large appliance for a small kitchen, so be really sure what you want.)

Is the baking center lowered? Marble topped? Or just a place for your mixer and supplies? If it is lowered, you might consider making the butcher block a cover for it, and combining the two functions.

Galley kitchens are by far the best to work in.

Hmmm... I think your ovens are next to the baking center??? That smaller shape that has the message center in it?? What about...

sink lineup from your entry door...

upper shelf unit that is 15-18" wide for cookbooks

lower cabinet could be cabinet or trash rollout as indicated

sink underneath window... possible shelf above window for knicknacks
DW and upper cabinets
cooktop--- do you have space underneath? could be pots and pans here OR could be warming drawer and one drawer for pots and pans
15" minimum landing space on counter
oven stack with microwave and warming drawer included

Other side lineup...

Frig with built in icemaker and water filter, then your butcher block and baking center and coffee area. and whatever upper cabinets that you can fit in. Possibly putting your microwave above the coffee area??

I would consider using the side panel to the frig cabinet as the start of your message center.

Why... this gets your food storage and prep area at the end nearest your entry way for easier putting away and keeps the frig traffic out of the way of the cooktop. If the kids need to use the microwave, then they can step in from the other entry way if needbe. (of course they won't always remember but... ;;) And this gets your baking center nearer your ovens but not too far from the frig or sink. You can use the frig water system for your coffee water.

Can you bring that far wall down to parallel your other end giving you lots more counter and cabinet space?

You could also do as we are doing (and others before us!) and bring the frig almost down to the end by your entryway. Leave enough room for a 12" deep pantry closet that has its back to the side of the frig. The pantry doors actually would open into your entry corridor instead of the kitchen corridor. You can also use that for cookbooks and small appliance storage space. If you make it deeper, you could possibly squeeze your mw in here behind the door. And the message center could go on the pantry doors either inside or outside depending on your needs!

Also keep in mind that many cabinet manufacturers have a standard depth of 24" and charge extra for anything different...

The double ovens are right next to the baking center, it is hard to read in the diagram. They are recessed back about 15 inches, there is a recess there in the wall, which makes them less obtrusive. My celing is only regular height, 8 foot high. I did read the "Read Me First" instructions, but I am computer challeneged about scanning stuff and my computer savvy husband kept saying "this is fine!" LOL!

Is there a reason the cooktop is on the same side as the sink? I wonder if it would work better if the refrigerator & cooktop switched sides.

Much as it seems natural to put the trash next to the door, I would consider putting the DW there to keep it out of the work aisle as much as possible. If it's open, it'll be in the way b/w the sink & cooktop (or, if you switch the Ref & cooktop, b/w the sink & refrigerator).

Are you thinking of replacing the small bathroom w/a pantry? Can you "afford" to lose a bathroom, even a small one?

How about this?

Sink wall...201"...
Bases: 24" cabinet + DW + 33" sink + 18" trash/recycle + 40" cabinet + 37.5" refrigerator + 24" cabinet
Uppers: 42" cabinet + 6" space + 45" window + 6" space + 40" cabinet + 37.5 Refrigerator cabinet + 24" cabinet

Cooktop wall...144" (not counting ovens)...
Bases: 42" Baking Center + 24" Maple Butcher Block + 36" Cooktop + 18" Prep Sink + 24" Coffee Area (Puts the sink next to the coffee pot for filling ease as well as next to the range
Uppers: 63" cabinet + 42" hood + 39" cabinets

I'd also like to see the trash & DW swapped. Trash btw the sink & cooktop makes it convenient to both cleanup zone and prep/cooking zone.

Here's my try.

I moved the frig over so that snackers wouldn't get in the way. Easy access for drinks to the outdoors. The prep sink is btw snack zone & baking zone.

Hey Alforfun!

Your kitchen is taking shape now! I totally understand about the scanning and hubby since I am in similar situation.

I guess I am wondering why you want to use cabinet space for your ice maker when you can get that with your frig?

Also wondering why you don't want to include your warming drawer with your oven stack? By doing those two things, you would gain valuable cabinet space.

I agree with the others on the dw and trash switcheroo. The trash will still be close to the door for ease in that step.

Check out some of the pantry organization websites for information on how big your pantry needs to be and for inspirational pictures including the one that I can't quite figure out yet how to paste in here. I know I need to finish reading the Helpful Hints page!! LOL!

2 sinks, 2 ovens, microwave and a warming drawer, fridge and icemaker. That is a lot in a kitchen that size. Could any of those items do double duty? Do you need them all?

If the door is your only door, where does everyone drop coats/handbags, etc? Is it possible to make the bath into a walk in (pantry on one side, and coat closet/message center on the other? Not sure if that would work for you.

In my kitchen, there is a narrow (about 26") wall between the outside door and where my dishwasher is (very similar to the layout posted by laxsupermom above). I like it for a number of reasons: 1) it makes the kitchen and "hall" areas seem separate without blocking much light and 2)it gives me a wall on the backside by the door should I want to hang a few pegs (for jackets, dog leashes, etc). If you used this setup, you could even recess a msg center in the wall there. Cookbooks could be on the side of the fridge (again, in laxsupermom's layout) where the msg center is shown now.

Alforfun, I totally get the tech challenge, but you're almost there. And your husband was right, what you had was fine, but it's just easier for people to help you if you embed the layout or whatever in the discussion thread.

Open Photobucket in a new window or tab (choose File at the upper left and "new tab"). Then you can click back and forth on the tabs under your menus, between Garden Web and Photobucket. When you look at your images in the album in Photobucket, there's kind of a box underneath it that has different kinds of code for embedding the image. If you hover your mouse over the HTML one it'll copy the code you need (including a link back to your album). A little yellow box will show saying "copied". Now click the GW tab and right away click on the Message box (where you write your post) and paste (hold down the Control key (Command on a Mac) and tap the V key once. That pastes the code into the box. You'll see a whole sequence of gobbledegook. When you click on Preview Message you should see your picture.

We've thrown a whole lot of questions and a whole lot of options at you very fast. That's because you're in the "tweaking" stage. There are a whole lot of options at this point, all of which have tradeoffs.

When you have a chance, please let us know what you think of the various ideas and how they fit with the way you actually live.

Regarding WD....the ideal location for a WD is next to a cooktop/range. So, alforfun has it right...

When asked about WD use, the majority of people here who put their WD near/under their cooktop use them, the majority who put them elsewhere (like an oven stack that's not next to a cooktop) don't use them.

But, keep in mind 30" is a very decent size for a WD, so if you can put it in a smaller cabinet, it will work.

Wow, lots of ideas to think about! I definitely like the idea of swapping the trash and DW, was considering that myself but wasn't sure. The WD I would like to stay near the range near the DR, the idea being a "serving area" where I could pull food out of the drawer, onto the counter, and people from the DR could serve themselves. (that room is not too big either). We bought a 27" WD, so it won't be too big. We already HAVE the icemaker, as I had once in a refrig for years and it was nothing but trouble, we all swore NEVER again. And with six in the family, plus lots of guests, we truly use a lot of ice. The 2nd sink we will have to ponder, I love the idea but perhaps it is too much. The maple butcher block is an antique one given to us by DH step-father, it is actually 40" long! And we use it all the time, (lots of vegies), but my husband will consent now to cutting it down to a smaller size. This is currently mounted over the top of the dishwasher, you can imagine what traffic jams this causes! I have considered moving the frig down to the other end, but wonder if it will create more traffic, since everyone eats in the DR? The small bath perhaps pantry is a problem, will miss the bathroom but have always hate the location.....:)

I agree about keeping the fridge at the DR end. You're trying to keep extra traffic out of the kitchen.

Your husband is truly a good guy to agree to cutting down the block. If you were willing to give up the second sink, however, you might be able to save the whole thing. I don't need more than 2' for prep, but 4' would be so great!

More questions: Is the coffee area just where the coffee maker and mugs go? Or do you do the full on thing with the mill and beans? Espresso/cappuccino? Pods?

Rather than having your longest stretch of counter between the (main) sink and stove, perhaps the coffee/ice could go on the stove side, and the fridge could move down, leaving a long stretch on that side? The coffee/ice might be most convenient where you have them, but I'm looking for ways of getting the fridge and stove not to be back to back. That's the only thing in your original layout that's a real "problem", especially if you swap the DW and trash. If you did that, it would be easy to use the WD as a cupwarmer, right?

Also, you might consider putting in a small trough sink for a prep sink by the block, if a sink is what you really want. It could stretch the whole depth of the cabinet (I think the small ones are 22"), and would be easy to sweep stuff into. It would still take up just about as much cupboard space as a regular one, if you have a disposer in it, but it would take a lot less surface width--6"-8".

Rubyfig, FINALLY had time to look at your kitchen pictures, very nice use of space! And the light cabinets and soapstone is pretty much what I like too. I have lots of brown wood in the living room (knotty pine paneling and built in bookshelves) and want to lighten the look. I wish we had an area for coats, purses and stuff, but we have been here 25 years and have gotten used to it. I drew up Buehl's plan, which is a different take on the kitchen. Interesting thing though, I have never lived in a house that didn't have a corridor kitchen, and they ALWAYS had the sink and stove on the same wall, outside one of course. A small trough sink is interesting thought too Pillog, I'll have to check those out. Do you know, the refrig now is opposite the sink, it doesn't bother us too much, we're just used to it. I will really have to think next time I cook in there, whether this bothers me or not!

Admittedly the frig in my layout above is further away from the DR. Trips from the DR in my house are usually for last minute table stuff like ketchup or salad dressing, not while prepping/cooking is going on. Snackers in my house come from BRs(not encouraged behavior, but sometimes unavoidable,) FR, and outside. When it's hot out traffic to the frig is mostly from outside for drinks & popsicles. This may not be the case in all houses. If your kids sit at the DR table to do homework, I can see that afternoon snacking traffic being more of a problem.

So the question is: is most of the frig traffic coming from the DR doorway for snacking or is that traffic mostly just ahead of sitting down for a meal?

Okay, I am only speculating because I don't live there, but if that were my kitchen, one of the priorities would be to keep the bathroom, but block the view to it from the kitchen. Since you have an extra 15" of space in the depth of your cabinets on the side across the sink, you might consider clipping the corner end (or stepping it) on that wall to add a divider wall on the other side by the door (especially if the fridge is going on the side of the room near the DR). In my kitchen, there is a similar setup because of a loadbearing wall. It looks like this:

{{!gwi}}

and here is the other side (please excuse the carpenter's mess):

{{!gwi}}

This divider wall would not only block the bathroom view from the kitchen and establish a mini "entry" separate from it, it would also give you a place for some hooks for coats on the entrance door side (and a natural space for a msg center, perhaps next to the hooks), and if planned correctly, maybe a recessed set of narrow shelves on the kitchen side (could be used for spices, mugs, or platters placed on end).

Depending on how wide the stairway is, and where it is going, I would look to see if recessing some cabinets, or working in a pantry is possible there.

On the side of the kitchen across from the sink, for the section that has the extra 15" depth, I would consider lining 15" deep wall cabinets from the ceiling all the way down to the base cabinets (the bottom section either as flip-up appliance garage sections, or as open storage). This still leaves you the standard 24" depth on the base cabinets making stone installation easier), and gives you maximum storage (and a nice place to put all the bulky tabletop appliances like a mixer, blender, microwave maybe?)

Again, a similar setup exists in my kitchen. I only had room for the standard 12" cabs (and my ceiling is less than the standard 8'), but I fit in quite a large 4" deep spice rack on that "baking center" side (This space will double as a buffet when I entertain, and the shelves are tall enough to swap the spices out to glasses and coffee mugs for a crowd). You can see that I opted for a shallow pantry cabinet on the end closest to the stove for traffic flow (that has worked quite well):
{{!gwi}}

I hope these help!

hey Rubyfig!

Wow looks great!! Thanks for the suggestion on the divider wall. I was trying to figure out how to explain that when I was typing up an earlier email on this thread.

Love your spice rack and all that reading space for cookbooks! :)

Thanks for the pictures, Rubyfig, makes things a lot clearer for me. I love your idea of using the baking center for a serving area, why didn't I think of that? There is never enough room in the dining room, and I like the "double duty" idea. I would probably not do walls, but keep the area by the door as open as possible. One of the things we are desperate for is more light, and the big window over the stairs really helps with that, as well as the glazing in the door. I wish I had an extra wall like you do, for the range, that would help a lot. Unfortunately, the stairs head down to the basement, but I am definitely considering taking the railing away and putting in a 3 foot high 12" deep cabinet along it for more storage. Most of the traffic for the refrig is from the DR, as it also leads from the FR. We can also get outside from the FR, so I think the frig is better down that end. Is it better to have the range on the other side from the sink? Does anyone else have it on the same side?

rubyfig - thanks for the photos, I also have an external door that is right by the kitchen, and I can see how a divider wall would work. Do you have anymore photos of your kitchen setup?

I'm reading this thread with interest as I too have a kitchen with corridors.

allforfun--I totally understand the priority to get in more light. We had a lot of ideas that were on the back burner, and really, it was at the demo stage when we could see the guts that a lot of the decisions were made and tweeked.

In terms of the stove on the same side as the sink, although mine is on an adjacent wall, it is almost on the same side (just a tiny bit over the corner) and I really like it there. I don't think the same side is a problem provided there is enough space between the sink and stove (which looks to me like you do have).

canicci--there is a link to more pictures (in photobucket) further up in the thread. Feel free to let me know if there is a specific view/angle you are looking for :).

earthpal--thank you