LOL. Too funny!

As an aside, is that one of those induction units I see? If so, which one is it and do you like it?

So funny -- I was thinking the same thing yesterday in our miniscule apartment kitchen, where I can reach almost everything without taking a step. Of course, I had to buy those burner covers so I can use the stove as a prep area, and all dishes on the counter must be put away before starting . . . naah, I won't miss this place AT ALL!!

LOL!!! That's so great! Do the little mirrors over your sink make the room feel bigger? LOL! It's almost like cooking in a camper, eh? The hot plate plugged in next to your sink looks dangerous! And is that carpet on the floor? Why did people ever think carpet in a kitchen would be good?

My old kitchen wasn't much bigger and I almost always had a 104 lb goldendoodle and 3 kids under foot!

LOVE your hoosier though!!! You will be incorporating that into your new kitchen, won't you? If not I'd be glad to make room for it at my house for you!;o)

Pbrisjar, the induction is a Mr. Induction. It has been used as my primary cooktop for about 18 months. I am sold on induction. I am planning a 36'' Miele. It has the features I like and bigger size burners than the 30" (or I would get the 30''). I didn't have any ferrous cookware. Over time I've gotten mostly cast iron that I just love. A couple were Staub pieces on sale. The rest are Lodge Logic and Chefmate (at Target). I've read lots of complaints about the weight of cast iron. It has not been a problem at all.

My coil stove still works, sort of. I've collected lots of other plug-in cooking appliances in the last 18 months, LOL.

hostagrams - burner covers, I didn't think to do that! Some the coils I've just taken off the stove and put a cutting board over the hole. How soon till your new kitchen?

Our kitchen almost quadrupled in size, so I know where your worries are coming from. Trust me, the adjustment to a well planned, well zoned kitchen like you're going to have will be a pleasure, and you'll wonder how you ever functioned in the old kitchen.

rmlanza, the little mirrors were purchased one winter when we lost power for about a week. I hoped they would reflect candle light. It didn't work very well, LOL. I had a little TV on the counter behind the sink for a while. I could watch it while doing dishes. Now the mirrors are so chic, I just left them. They are easier to clean than wallpaper. The carpet is 22 years old, YUCK!/@*&^%$ DH insisted because the floor was cold. I get to choose this go-around!

The Napanee Kitchenet was DH's grandmother's. They lived in West Virginia all their lives. I was shocked to find the same company made our kitchen cabinets-the ones I will be replacing - in 1930s or earlier. That the Kitchenet have a place in the new kitchen was a priority, and made the layout quite a challenge.

We have a golden and sometimes foster goldens. They ARE underfoot, just hoping something drops on the floor. But it never makes it to the floor, does it? LOL

If you go to the website for Harp Gallery they have a Napanee also !! WOW I wouldn't have known what it was if I had not seen your wonderful one. so rm if you are interested they have a wonderful selection of antiques. They are in Appleton WI. c

Caroline, that is a beauty! It is actually a Hoosier, and must be made in Napanee, Indiana. Hoosiers are much better known, and probably more valuable. Mine was made by a company named Napane-Copes in Napanee, Indiana. It still has the flour sifter, too. I wouldn't trade it for a new kitchen. It's so easy - twirl the crank and sifted flour fills the measuring cup.

LOL, it's good to remind yourself why your getting a new kitchen. I really like the size of your flour bin. Do you know the dimensions and how much it holds? It looks like it hold 10 pounds. Mine holds so big and hold too much flour that I'd get bugs if I filled it up. I wonder if I could find a smaller one and rig it up so that my bin doesn't take up so much room.

The flour bin holds 20 pounds, more or less. I have never had it get buggie. Here is one source of replacement parts for baking cabinets. It says not to be used for flour storage, but I can't imagine it would be a problem. The flour bins are so wonderful, I don't understand why folks don't put them in new construction or in remodeled kitchens. The bin has bread flour and the small tin has AP flour. I've been making english muffins, flour tortillas and pocket bread more than loaf lately. I may switch and put the AP in the flour bin. Unfortunately, DH hates whole wheat flour; I can't use it in anything. He doesn't like the white whole wheat either.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kennedy Hardware

You're not getting rid of your Napanee - are you?!?!?!?!
Will it have a home in the new kitchen?

Also, I hope you'll be donating your old cabinets to a reuse/salvage place. Plenty of folks would love to have them.

LOL...your sink reminds me of what ours looked like in our old kitchen! I so enjoy the wonderful amount of work space I now have and the 2nd sink!

Is that your new kitchen layout I see tacked to the door above the sink?

patser, the old cabinets will find a new home in the laundry room and old garage. They are probably 60 or 70 years old, and not sound enough to reuse in the kitchen. I tried! I am keeping the Napanee Kitchenet.

buehl, If my kitchen turns out as beautifully as yours has, I will be thrilled. Yes, that is the new kitchen layout on the door above the sink! It's much better than thinking about dirty dishes :D

Wow 20 pounds, I guess it's bigger than it looks in the pictures. I have gotten a few things from Kennedy and I saw they say not to use it for food. I think the reason is they can't guaranty the soldering doesn't contain lead.

You probably bake enough or are in a better climate to not get those little bugs, but we get them after a while if we don't keep things in sealable containers. Maybe after I get done with grad school I'll have more time to bake, LOL.

So do you have a final layout with pictures? I'd love to see them.

cotehele... you will love every square well planned tweaked and re-tweaked evaluated accessed redrawn re=evaluated questioned reconcilled posted and re-posted inch of your new kitchen!!

I love this thread! Because I have had the same thoughts - but this leads to a serious question I have about the so-called "work triangle"...

We had friends over for dinner last night who strongly objected to our plan to move the fridge - even though our fridge is currently TOTALLy in the way - but my friend who is a chef thought that I would regret moving it to the opposite side of the kitchen, because I would not be able to pivot and grab from the fridge while cooking at the stove...

Currently, we have the perfect equilateral triangle - exactly 5 feet from stove to fridge, from fridge to sink, and from sink to stove. And btw, just TRY to get two people in there working at the same time - it's do-able, but barely, and only cuz the DH and I have almost 35 yrs practice, pretty much always in small kitchens! Anyway, the current (still in process - we haven't demo'ed yet) plan is to move the fridge directly across the room from the stove, a distance of almost 9 feet. What we will gain is counter space (which we have woefully little of currently).

Anyone want to tell me what they think of this plan from your vast experience? Stove is staying in the same place, sink is moving about a foot....I'm all ears. Thanks.

ps to cotehele - thanks for bringing up the elephant in the room, and your lasagna sauce looks awesome....

Elyse, so will you when your kitchen is finished. It has taken as much time as yours will eventually take. And, the end will be sweet.

Mom2lilenj, the layout is conceptual at this point. I am getting final designs and bids from a local custom cabinetmaker, a Mouser dealer and one from Lowes. Once we chose the cabinetmaker, the layout will be fairly certain. It has a U-shaped work space. The pantries, frig and Napanee Kitchenet are on the 4th wall. I will post when I have something certain. Also, I went to the Kennedy shop looking for a replacement latch. I am sorry to say they were nasty, acted like they didn't want to be bothered and didn't need my business. I was very disappointed, and I left without buying anything.

momorichel: I will pipe in and say that we have abandoned the triangle concept and are very glad we did. As you may have seen in this forum there is a big move to work stations. It allows more of what you seem to want, DH in his area and you in yours with good space to perform . The concept of the triangle is OK but most of us that gave it up have found that we walk to the fridge and get all of the things that we need and then place them in our zone and work from there. If you need something else it just isn't that hard to walk a few feet and get it. Most cooks today are into "mise en place" ...you can check out all the Kitchen at Work and Kitchen in Action threads to see how that fits with prep of your station and reduces greatly the need to travel repeatedly to the fridge/freezer. Hope this helps you with your decision. I think most folks would say counterspace is a BIGGIE...more is almost always better. c

Ditto what trailrunner said. Layout is a bit frightening. How do we really KNOW if everything will work out? Work flow is more important to me than a triangle. Tasks should have a logical flow from beginning to end without walking a distance or crossing back and forth.

As buehl spotted, my layout and perspectives are taped above the sink. Each task I visualize doing in the new kitchen. My current kitchen has several movable pieces that allow me to simulate (sort of) the new layout. It's difficult, too, to balance budget and dreams. I can't tell you how many times I've tried something and decided, ''this won't work!" My layout is U-shape with frig and pantries on the fourth wall. Dimensions are 14'8'' x 13'7''. There is room for a very small island in the middle, but I am not having one until I know I need it. Gathered items from the frig and pantry are taken to the prep space. Be sure to have landing space by the frig and pantry. Once prepped, I can turn left to the cooking wall, which is located mid-way between the DR and the porch (most temperate-weather meals will be on the porch). Clean up is a turn left of the cooking wall. Clean dishes go in a snack and breakfast hutch on the fourth wall near the DR. I will post a layout once it is finalized. HTH

I also gave up on the "work triangle" concept. My kitchen is a 12' x 16' galley with a peninsula on one end. I decided to put the wall oven at the end, so I would not have the heat it produces in my work area. The refrigerator is also at the end of the kitchen, across from the oven and microwave. I thought it would be more useful to have it at the end, so I would not have to walk around it all the time. One wall of the kitchen is dedicated to cooking with the cooktop in the center, the refrig at one end and a prep sink on the peninsula. the other wall is for clean-up with the main sink and dishwasher (and oven a the end). Even though the layout does not follow the "triangle" guidelines, I believe it will be really practical and easy to work with.

Thought I'd chip in on the triangle vs. workzone discussion since I'm also a chef. I just redid my home kitchen based on the workzone approach as opposed to the triangle approach because it meets my families needs better.

cotehele - You're going to love the new kitchen. Totally agree with yours and trailrunner's posts about placing priority on workflow and mise en place. The workzones don't have to be in a tight circle as long as you're comfortable with the distances between sinks, major appliances and work areas. In some of restaurants I've worked in, we had to go into completely different rooms to get to the cooler & dry goods and while we didn't love it, with a little organization it wasn't the end of the world.

momorichel - While a little less distance to the fridge would nicer, if this is the only way to get the counter space you need, definitely go for the counter space. As long as it's a straight shot to your fridge, you should be be fine. (You might want to rethink it if there's an island or obstacle in the way.) Another factor in home fridge placement to consider is proximity to the dining area. It's nice to have additional drinks and assorted condiments close by.

For my kitchen I specifically wanted the fridge on the outer part of the main cooking and prep zone closest to dining areas so that when I get help setting the table, I don't bump into my helpers while they're getting drinks, ice, butter & condiments and I'm doing final cooking and plate-up.

I have been dealing with that same concept in coming up with new floorplan. My current U plan is actually very functional for me, but claustrophobic for 2 or more people.

Work "zones"are great, but you still often need similar access (sink and frig) for cooking on stove, for preparing salad. It's nigh impossible for everyone to have perfect access to all the same things unless you duplicate everything.

I think that's why proper counter space turns out to solve a multitude of sins--you may have to "collect" some items, but once you do, you can work away happily. If I make a salad or a stir-fry, for example, I typically select all my goodies and pile them where I want to work. So I need space for my bags of produce AND a nice wide area to chop, mix, or whatever. I spend a lot more time "doing" than collecting, so in my new floorplan I want to make my "doing" areas as nice as possible.

Here are what seem to me to be "paired" functions that I'd like to be able to have 2 people at same time: CLEANUP (load or unload DW) and some kind of food prep; refrigerator access for drinks/snacks (for us this usuallly means access to the main frig unless we were to duplicate ice and a host of foods in a second bar frig) without derailing either of those. So I like frig placement, while not acres away, somewhere on the perimeter and not deep in the middle of the kitchen. A common failing in layouts though is inadequate path space so that frig doors or DW door can be open and people still walk by.

I've been having the same thoughts, since in my current space I literally don't take a step from the sink to the cooktop, glass storage, dish storage, spices, and pots and pans. Fridge is all of three steps! In our new plan, I did stick with the recommended work triangle distance between my main sink, fridge and cooktop, because I had the space to lay it out that way, but I know many of my friends have kitchens in which they "broke the rules" and are very happy. In particular, I agree that having the fridge near the eating table area or a counter can work out fine. On the other hand, I've got the same concerns as the OP - the convenience has spoiled me (hard to imagine being spoiled in my current kitchen, but it's true) and I hope it'll be an easy adjustment. My main concern is getting used to an island, but everyone seems to love these and it will make a great serving/secondary prep area.

Our last two kitchens were galleys with tight work triangles (yay!) and woefully inadequate prep space (boo!). So, it was easy to do the action of cooking but so frustrating to have to clear off the counter and prep in stages!

The new kitchen went into the DR space, so we were able to plan the layout from scratch. We worked around some restrictions (exterior walls & the desire to retain windows), and ended up with a layout that has the fridge, range and sink all on different walls (in a U), with an island in the center.

I resisted this initially, because I thought the fridge was too far (12') from the range. However, as this layout allowed us to recess the fridge, we decided to go for it. Once we cooked our first meals, I realized that the distance was no problem at all. I just grab whatever I need before I begin prep.

Oddly, the 6' expanse of counter on each side of the sink (up from ~2' in last two kitchens!) is where I have the "problem". I now think we should have put the sink off center and closer to the fridge to maximize the distance between the sink & range, as that is the area to which I gravitate for prep. I have a 4' x 4' island, and I never prep on it, although it is ideal for baking. We opted not to add outlets or a sink to the island (boo!), as we're on slab and didn't trust GC with channeling the floor. Still, the kitchen is SOOOO much better than what we're ever had before. And the moral of this story is that once we let the space dictate the layout, we ended up with a nice flow.

This is a post-remodel pic showing layout (fridge handles on the left hand side):

Cotehele, I've enjoyed this thread so much . . . you and I have a lot in common!

Our "Best Golden in the World" died last Christmas, and we'll be getting a puppy after settling in the new house. Smart, huh: New carpets, new hardwood, new puppy! I miss Sam enormously.

Your Coppes / Nappanee Hoosier cabinet was built just a few miles from where I grew up in Northern Indiana, and from where I lived before moving to Tennessee in the spring. Coppes has always had a wonderful local reputation for extraordinary cabinets. In the 70s, my good friend had a bright red Coppes kitchen with black appliances and countertops . . . very WOW back then.

This is my Hoosier cabinet -- it's a Sellers. I bought it about 30 years ago from the estate of the woman who had received it as a wedding gift and used it her entire married life. I can just imagine how thrilled she must have been to have this beautiful piece from her groom!! It's in the dining room of the apartment, extending my kitchen very helpfully, as are the shelves next to it. In the new house, it will be the communications center / key drop / charging station, etc -- in an alcove in the hall between kitchen and garage. Not showcased as much as it deserves, but hey, that's how it's gotta be.

We hope to be in the house by Christmas, but I think that's a pipe dream. Maybe January . . .

This is sooo helpful as we embark on actually drawing up plans. Yes, it's a straight shot from stove to fridge, with a nice landing spot near the fridge for the stuff we haul out of it (or put back in, for that matter). Also the fridge will be closer to the eat-in area this way, so that's all good...

The current problem is passage way, as both the fridge doors and pantry doors will be open into the main thoroughfare, but I don't yet see how to solve that...we would have to shorten the peninsula, which is already just large enough for the sink, dishwasher and a little space on either side to put things.

I am definitely going to steal cotehele's idea of putting the drawings on the cabinet and trying out the ideas as best as possible...also when we have some actual drawings, will bring them back to this wonderful site for feedback. Ya'all are AWESOME thanks so much! I think I'll be doing some drawings tonight!

I am so sorry to be so long in responding. The ISP cable went out, and will not be repaired until Saturday.

chefkev - itÂs nice to hear from a chef! I just play one at home, LOL. It takes a little practice to be organized; forgetting butter or eggs a time or two is a good trainer. Maybe one good thing about our inefficiently laid out kitchen is that it makes me think through what I need before I start.

Frankie  I would not know how to cook with two people in the kitchen. I think there is walking around room for the sink, cooktop and prep areas if ever the chance comes along to test it. Finding the right place for all the appliances and tasks is a big challenge. It is easy to get a couple of things right, but then I realize something else is in the wrong place to be convenient.

eastcoastmom  An island is a great connector, an in-between or temporary landing place from the frig, sink, and stove. I am loosing an island in my new kitchen. I hope the work flows as well as I expect or IÂll be trying to retrofit another island.

abbycat  you bring up a good point that working in a kitchen is different from imagining the work. You have a really nice, open kitchen. I love the windows!

hostagrams  You are getting a puppy-thatÂs exciting! You are an old hand at raising a puppy. I think the carpet and hardwood floors are safe. I am sorry you lost Sam. I understand how much they stay with us even when they are gone. We foster goldens for a rescue and are willing to take the old and/or sick ones, weÂve lost four in the last five years. Three were with us for a year. It is mind boggling how ill-treated, sick dogs can be so trusting and loving. You are an Indiana gal, too! WeÂve been in Indiana 26 years-same town-same house.

Your Sellers Hoosier is in beautiful condition. There are lots of options for an organizer and communications center with all the doors and drawers.

momorichel  do post your drawings when you can. IÂd love to see them.