full first floor plan

also this is just the main floor. There will be an upstairs with 4 bedrooms/laundry/3 bath and a basement level with a guest room/rec area//bar/

I have literally never heard of someone actually using the desk in the kitchen. Lots of kitchens have them, and the desks end up just being used as a junk-collector until they are torn out during remodels.

I'm not sure why this is so consistently the case. Perhaps it is because kitchen desks are always pretty small, so they are never as attractive as large work surfaces elsewhere in the house when you really want to sit down, spread out, and get things done. (For example, in your plan, I think the breakfast table would always end up being the first choice.)

It also might just be that there is so much happening in the kitchen usually that it's a pretty disruptive place to work -- your papers get wet/dirty, people walking by, noise, etc.

Unless you have a really strong reason to think your family would be the exception to this rule, I'd say just have a kitchen, a breakfast area, and a great pantry.

In conclusion, I don't understand your question about the dining room entrance. Which way do you want traffic to flow?

Think hard about whether the kids would actually use that space. Mine both had desks in their rooms they rarely used. They always wanted to do homework in the middle of everything which meant our dining room table (which we eat dinner at every night) or at the kitchen island. I think of the kitchen island as my "desk". My laptop is there but can be moved easily. I usually have a few papers there but those can easily be moved.

I was excited by your description of a homework area near the kitchen. But, when I looked at it as drawn, I have questions as to how useful it would be. I think that might work well as a get away spot for an adult to do their work, especially if they are the chief cook. I could see it being an office, a place for cookbooks, etc.

It doesn't look like it would work well for the morning dash out the door, where is my homework, where are my shoes, gym clothes, etc. I'm not sure it's super useful for a few kids to be using at the same time. Picture their chairs being pulled out, with their growing bodies in them, and someone trying to get past them. It might be tight.

Maybe your climate is much different than ours, but I'd find incorporating some type of mudroom area into the house more useful for everyday ins and outs. I would use a mudroom as the spot for parking school detritus. Ideally, it would be located nearby the spot where homework is done.

Will all of the groceries be coming in the front door? How about the trash and recycling, will they be leaving by way of the front door?

An option I might consider if this was my house, would be to include some sort of storage in the dining room for the school supplies. This way, the dining room table could be used for sprawling school projects. Most of the time the table wouldn't be needed for meals, so projects could linger if necessary. Formal dinner coming up? Clear everything away into the storage area.

Maybe the pantry could go where you've got the designated school area, and you could do a mudroom in the spot where it is currently labeled pantry, with a door to the outside. I'd shift the dividing wall so that the pantry got the smaller portion and the mudroom got the larger portion, and I'd connect the mudroom to the dining room as well as the kitchen.

As far as your island goes, I suggest shifting the sink to one edge or the other. Having it centered is nice for symmetry, but terrible for uninterrupted work space. You'll appreciate having one large area to work at rather than 2 small areas with a sink in the middle.

Just some ideas. : )

I can't see any kid being willing to use that homework area. On the off chance they did use it though it looks as though anyone sitting in there would be in danger of being hit in the head with the door. I'd rework the plan to eliminate that, push the kitchen all the way to the outside wall and add either pantry cabinets or find another location for the pantry.

Is the front door the only entrance to this house? Where will you be brining in groceries from?

Do not care for the timeout room at all. Also do not at all lime the fact that the lesser used spaces like it and the pantry are occupying outside walls where the is a chance of a window to let in natural light into the home's most used spaces. The space needs to be organized so that the storage functions occuy interior positions, and the occupancy spaces occupy the perimeter.

The kitchen layout is awkward. For an island to get optimum use, it should be oriented with the long axis to the range, with the cleanup zone on one of the shorter legs. It's also not clear where the family entrance/grocery entrance is located in relatinship to the kitchen.

I don't see this as a ''home''. More of a floorplan exercise from someone who doesn't understand the heirarchy of home functions and lives alone and doessn't cook.

Here are a few ideas. I moved the powder room...mainly because it looked kind of 'plopped' in that location. It also makes the entrance into the breakfast area/family room more obvious.

I flipped the doorway from dining room to kitchen and made the current pantry a butler's pantry. This allows the former 'kids' space to be the new pantry.

Hope you don't mind...but I also moved the bay window to the breakfast area...which gives you more space for the table and an area against that wall for a 'study area'. This could also be a built-in hutch/serving area and phone/laptop charging area.

The kids will probably want to use laptops or tablets at the kitchen table, but charge them at the hutch. When you have a party, move the tech and bring out the food...and this gives you storage below and display above, for dishes, etc.

I also changed the stairs slightly (slow day) but I hope this gives you some more ideas :) {{gwi:2109307}}From Kitchen plans

Hello Everyone,
I wanted to first express my deep appreciation for all the very helpful comments/ suggestions on my house plan.
I have taken much of what was suggested and reworked the plans as posted below. Some specific responses.

1) I agree with the vast majority who did not like the homework center/office and have completely removed it. I am thinking of using pantry cabinets as suggested by Christina222.

2) I moved the island sink to the side to allow for a single large workspace as suggested by Laughable. To answer your questions, we are in the Northeast so definitely need a mudroom but the main entry for everyday will be through the basement under-house garage. Groceries will also most likely come up from the basement which I know many people donâÂÂt like but my current house has an underhouse garage and I donâÂÂt mind it too much.

3) I wasnâÂÂt sure how or if to incorporate HollyspringâÂÂs suggestion to have the range be set up oriented to the long side of the island. I felt that moving the range to the lower side of the kitchen (where the fridge is) would add more problems than what would be gained by having the range across from a 7â side rather than a 5â side. Namely the fridge wouldnâÂÂt be as accessible if placed on the far right and a traffic path would be created in front of the range where as now it is set in a safer more isolated area.

4) Lavender_lass. Thank you so much for taking the time to rework the drawing. A) ItâÂÂs funny I had just moved the powder room closer to the door and was pleasantly surprised to see that you had suggested the same idea. I had also added another closet (and shelves) to where the powder room previously was since IâÂÂm concerned that the small closets by the door would not be big enough (each only 2 feet wide). Do people think it adds to the design or does it crowd the foyer/breakfast entry too much? B) I do like the bay window in the breakfast area but IâÂÂm leaning towards keeping it where it is mainly because I like the bay for the second floor master (above the Family room), I think the new breakfast bay might divide the patio two much and I think the two current sliders allow a more continuous connection to the indoor/outdoor space. C) I actually also changed the stairs but in the opposite direction adding a tread to the front to make the opening to the breakfast room slightly bigger. D) I like your idea on the BP entry to the dining room but decided on using pantry cabinets per others suggestions instead of a dedicated pantry so I could incorporate two more windows to the kitchen.

Again thanks so much for everyoneâÂÂs excellent input. Please let me know if IâÂÂm on the right track.

Mary (and Jim)

kitchen close up.
Finally, in looking at the island sink I'm wondering if I should place it in the lower right corner facing the back rather the facing the living room. I'm thinking that you would still have access to it from the range area while gaining a little more work space across from the range as well as allowing my husband/kids to prep/wash their hands without getting in the way of the real action at the range;)

{{gwi:2109309}}

A few comments that others may or may not have made (I skimmed the previous posts)...

Homework Room...In theory, it sounds like a good idea but in practice (speaking from experience), it doesn't work. First, you can't easily see what's going on in the room. When kids are on the computer, you want to be sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing and, especially, you want to be sure they aren't doing something forbidden. Second, that room is far too narrow. Our computer room is 9' wide and it's just wide enough to handle a desk and bookshelf behind the desk - I wouldn't want any less space. To make it usable I would add at least 2 feet to the width - if you keep it. Bottom line - I recommend against it!

As others have said, I have found that kids usually prefer to do homework close to the action. In our case...our DD on the peninsula and our DS in the LR. The LR is off the Kitchen & DR and was quieter, but we could easily monitor what was going on b/c it was still in the open.

Garage/Family Entrance...Since the garage/grocery entrance is via the stairs, the Pantry is best placed as close to the stairs as possible but still easily accessed from the Kitchen. Refrigerator placement is relatively important as well since many groceries go into the refrigerator/freezer. However, it's more important that the refrigerator be placed functionally for prepping and cooking - just try not to make it too difficult to get to the refrigerator with groceries. (You also usually have fewer bags of refrigerated/frozen food than bags of other groceries - at least that's how it is in our home.)

Built-In Pantries vs Pantry Cabinets...you can store far more in a built-in Pantry with ceiling to floor shelves than you can in Pantry Cabinets in the same space. In addition, you can have shallower shelves in a built-in, making it far easier to see what you have and to access items - and things won't get lost with shallower shelves! You also can see everything in a built-in pantry without having to pullout various shelves, etc. Just open the door(s) and everything is immediately in view.

With Pantry cabinets, you usually have two choices - pullout or the "fancy" inserts that pull out and around. In a pullout, once you get above face level, it's difficult to see anything else on the pullout shelves. With the "fancy" inserts, you lose a lot of space with the mechanism, the various shelf walls, and the spacing of shelves to make it work properly.

Some pantry cabs are a combination of stationary shelves above a certain height and pullout trays below. However, then you have the problem of 24" deep shelves that you can't reach the insides of. IMHO, the best use of pullout pantries is the narrow ones (say, 18"W) with the shelves attached to the door that pullout all the way when you pull open the door. The 18" width means you can see everything by looking at the contents from both sides. ...

Forgot to mention the counters at the "top" and to the "right" are 3" deeper than standard - which means the base cabinets and upper cabinets are 3" deeper than standard. This gives you:

(1) A bit more workspace and storage

(2) Adds space behind the cleanup/main sink so there will be enough room for the faucet and anything else you decide to put behind the sink.

(3) Aesthetically allows you to get a standard-depth refrigerator instead of a counter depth. The deeper counters help make the refrigerator look counter-depth. Standard-depth refrigerators are a lot less expensive and with 3 children, you will need the extra refrigerator space!

If you cannot get deeper base cabinets, then pull the base cabinets out from the wall by 3". You should be able to get 15" deep uppers, which I highly recommend!

Oh, and the windows are counter-height.

Buehl, thank you so much for the amazing work you have done. I am truly blown away and am working on incorporating many of your suggestions.
I hope you could answer a few more specific questions.

1) I would like to have a one level island that will enable more than one person to stand around the island and prep (or just talk ) while being at the same level. It also allows for those times where you may need a very large flat area to spread out. How should I arrange the sink so I wouldnt need a splash guard. Perhaps move it over to the right so it is farther away from the sitting area.

2) The best view will be out the back window (looking at a wooded area and the patio) as opposed to the right side where I would be looking at my neighbors backyard/house. I am wondering if moving the cleanup sink to the right side I am moving the larger windows to the less attractive view and placing a less time intensive area in front of the better view. Is having the range alongside the long part of the island that critical?

3) How much more would the 3inch extra width cabinets and countertops cost as opposed to the savings from a standard refrigerator?

4) Finally what software are you using? It looks a lot easier to use than autocad.

Thanks so much
Mary