Thank you rhome410, I do like that island. It might be a little big, but I definitely like the L-shape. Maybe if I shortened up the part with the prep sink--it looks like it might become a barrier if it sticks in that far. I like the seating end--would it make sense to put a seat on the foyer side too?

If I went with the L-shape, which I'm really liking, I'm not sure how the cabinets underneath would be configured. Could anyone give me any tips on this? There is 10'6" of space in the middle of the kitchen, although I'm not sure how far the fridge would stick out--so lets say 10 ft. to be safe. What are the rules about clearance space between island and surrounding cabinets? Would there be enough room to put storage cabinets/drawers on both the fridge and oven sides of the island, or would that make it too big? Yes, I like the look of a bigger island, but I don't want it to interfere with how the rest of the kitchen works.

Thanks for any and all input on this! I've been a renter my entire adult life, and am so excited to have my own kitchen! The problem is that I'm not entirely sure what is going to work or not, and what I'm going to like or not, because all of the kitchens I've lived with have been very small. However, I love to cook and bake, so this is very important to me. I just want to make the best use of my space, so I truly appreciate all of your advice.

Alicia

I have no idea what colors, styles, etc. you want, but here is what it looks like, including a plan that might show possibilities for the island cabinets. I didn't think much about them, but others might give input on how to utilize that storage best.

Because of it's proximity to the DO and the fact that it's a giant horizontal surface I would store all my baking supplies like the several boxes of cookie cutters, decorator jimmies, sprinkles, icing colors and cooling racks in the seating stretch of the island facing in to the kitchen. I would put party supplies like paper plates, napkins, party picks on the end of the seating stretch facing the desk and frig.

There's so much storage space in the Rhome designed layout that you could customize storage for exactly how you would use the room.

I don't think the island is a barrier at all, because the only things opposite each other are the frig and DO and you rarely walk between the two except for chilling dough, maybe you could throw a frig drawer in the island somewhere if that is a concern.

Great job Rhome! That looks perfect in that space.

Great job, rhome!

All I did is map out her already finished design, and the L island she wanted...Nothing very special, but I'm glad it's helping the vision.

I'm a little concerned about base cabinet sizes. With the sink centered, there is about 33" between the sink cabinet and the corner cabinets on each side. With the dw on one side and maybe a trash pullout on the other (which I didn't show), it leaves a 15" on one side and a 9" cabinet on the other. I'd like to see her get more out of that run. But at least the 9" is handy to the oven, so could be vertical tray storage, and I guess the 15" on the other side could be for towels and things? The island and the stove wall cabs are also cut up pretty small. No big drawers except those under the cooktop. Everyone think that'll serve her OK, or should something be moved around?

WOW! That is a great looking island--thank you so much, rhome! Looks like there should be room for lots of storage, lots of seating, and lots of workspace--three key things I was looking for. It is definitely a solid starting point. Also, thank you for creating all of the different views of the kitchen. Now I have actual pictures that I can show my hubby!

I'm so thankful for all of your help and for everyone's input. I don't think I could've come up with this great design on my own! I'm so glad I found this forum. Now I know where to come with my questions...and I'm sure I'll have a lot of them! Thanks again!

Alicia

So I posted my last message without seeing rhome's last message (didn't refresh my browser). All of my thanks still hold very true--the island design is great! It helped so much to actually see it laid out. But I am curious to hear everyone's thoughts about the rest of the layout, based on what rhome is saying. I will definitely be the first to admit that I know nothing about cabinetry size and options, and would love to hear other opinions.

As much as I like the idea of double ovens, I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of them other than the times I entertain large groups (which is maybe the whole point of the DO). However, I'm not opposed to either a single wall oven, or maybe even a free-standing range. Would either of these options fit better in this kitchen?

I guess maybe it is hard to get too specific until I know the exact size of the appliances I'd like to get. Actually, we are hoping to do a little wish-list appliance and cabinetry shopping this weekend. But it would be nice to go into the store armed with some of your expertise!

I'm actually going to take back some of what I said. There is room on the island to have wider drawers if you want them (on the back side of the seating bar...facing the aisle and oven side). Also a good sized cabinet to the left of the prep sink, and 24" cabs: 1 to the left of the range, 1 facing the fridge, and 1 by the oven. I thought about my own kitchen, compared to the number and sizes of cabinets I have and how they're used, and I think you'll be OK.

You have room for the dbl oven, so I say, keep it. Not only will the 2 ovens serve you well when cooking for a crowd, which sounds important and fairly frequent, but it separates your cooking and baking zones, so someone can bake and tend to their project without overlapping walking path or workspace with the main cook...and both of you can easily reach a sink and not have to share those either. I love having the ovens away from the cooktop like that, and like to be able to keep an eye on something in the oven from across the room, rather than bend low in front of the stove to check things.

Good work, Rhome.

But I'm simple minded. Still hate corners too. And I'm not sure I like how the traffic will snake around that island. (Think of the doorbell ringing.) Not keen on the end person's butt being almost in the hallway either.

Thinking outside the box, I suggest doing an 'L' with island rather than starting with the 'U' and trying to work the island in from there. Lose the wall oven run and place the wall ovens at the end of the cleanup run, to the right of the DW. Then go with a larger rectangular island with seating on the two outer sides.

I think there is room for wider aisles and a large island, somewhere between 4 x 7 and 5 x 8 in size. The island could seat up to six comfortably. Or seat 4, if the cook wants full runs of cabinetry across from each leg of the 'L'.

Much simpler plan.

With options to tweak that front window placement. Be good if it played nice with the window above. An "L" doesn't demand a centered window the way a "U" does. I'd consider a wider window with exterior window boxes below. But then dish storage needs might mean flipping the DW placement.

Ok I'm officially babbling... anybody following this reasoning?

I'm definitely following, Celticmoon. I much prefer rectangular or square islands myself, so can see pluses to what you're saying. I will try it...but later, since people keep asking me what we're having for dinner and I don't know yet!

I have absolutely nothing helpful to contribute other than to say - WOW, rhome, I was reading down through this and am amazed at what you "just whip up"! Alicia has some wondeful ideas to ponder.

Alicia, as you have already discovered, there is a wealth of information/wisdom on this forum and very generous folks willing to share their knowledge. Welcome, and you will find much support and encouragement here.

Alice462, I cannot agree with you more. I just found this forum a couple days ago, posted my question yesterday, and have been blown away by the knowledge and generosity of everyone who has contributed. The time that people, especially rhome, have put into helping me out, without receiving anything more than a heartfelt thank-you, is amazing!

I will most definitely continue to seek others' expertise through this forum as the construction process goes on. I have gotten more useful advice in the last two days than in the last 6 months of planning! Thank you for your welcome.

And rhome, I hope you enjoy a relaxing dinner! :)

Rhome, what are you thinking feeding your family?!?

OK I'll scribble it the old fashioned way.

Made the desk narrower and would recc a narrow stand up message area instead of a wide desk. Cf desk threads...

Rhome's "L" is perfect for your space. Sets up a great traffic flow and offers visual interest. Takes advantage of the available width of the room.

I would suggest that you keep the double ovens. When you start using them you'll never understand how you lived without them. We are only a two person household and we use them all the time.

You are very lucky to be able to start from scratch - I envy those 15' ceilings. :)

Here's the computer version of Celtic's idea. I'd have to think long and hard about giving up the more dedicated baking area, but I do like this island better. But as I said, I'm partial to square or rectangular islands over shaped ones. I think this one might be more appealing to most people, as far as appearance and not feeling a little awkward.

Rhome you are a wonder!

Tweaking options include extending the foyer wall further (see, Alicia? You can have it all!). Explore shifting the window with consideration to the exterior. I'd slide the prep sink to opposite the fridge, so the main prep run is then opposite the cooktop. Baker can use clean up sink; visiters can access prep sink without getting in the way.

True, Rhome, a dedicated bake center is great. I was seeing the island run opposite the cleanup sink as the baking center. I do agree it is nicer to have it adjacent to ovens rather than across, but...

Compromises, compromises...

I guess the larger rectangle is more practical but I must say that the "L" has a lot of visual interest..

Alicia, rereading your earlier posts, I see the main view is through the DR and LR to the back. Something to consider, for both the cook(s) and visitors. As Sailormann says, the L island shape is unusual and does have 'visual interest', but the sight lines for folks working and sitting don't access that back view so well. Might be nice to have the option to face the LR and that view as you work.

Can you tell us where the midline of the upper window falls on that sink wall? Maybe there's a way to get the kitchen window lined up better. That would be important for me.

What Celtic drew and Rhone digitized is almost a perfect visual of my kitchen!! I have had my new kitchen for 4 months, and like the layout very much.

My sink, stove fridge and desk for my computer are in the same place, total dimensions are very close, my DW is on the other side of the sink and have a slide in stove so i have a pantry where the double ovens are. The isles are 42 inches (a must) my island in "P" shaped, it is 36 inches wide at the sink end and 48 inch round at the other end (going away from the sink), visually very nice and helps ease the flow of traffic at the round end. The short wall adjacent to the outside door I cut down to a pony wall, opens up the space very nicely to guests coming in and is a great perch when entertaining.
If I could figure out how to post a photo and drawing I would.

Wow--another layout that I like very much! Thank you for drawing that up, rhome. Like I said, it really helps me to see it all laid out and to see different views of the kitchen. I didn't think I would like a rectangular island, but after seeing the visuals and hearing the input about traffic flow around the kitchen, I can see how it might be a very nice option.
Just a question--do you think it will look odd to have the dbl oven butting right up against that wall? Just seems like it might look a little awkward...any thoughts?

Celtic, the peak of the vaulted ceiling and those upper windows is to the left of the sink on the drawing I originally posted. It is midway between the west foyer wall and the east kitchen wall, which puts it in a very awkward position in the kitchen--way off to the side. To be honest, initially the kitchen window being off balance really bothered me. But after working with the plans and not seeing how it could be changed, I've come to accept it. I'm definitely open to any suggestions...but for me it is no longer a huge thing.

Also, I guess I never really thought about having the option for people seated at the island to see the view to the back. The rectangle would definitely provide more of that view to those seated, and would probably make it easier for those seated in the kitchen to converse with those in the DR and LR. Definitely something to think about...thanks!

Tbugera, I would definitely like to see photos of your kitchen. The P-shaped island sounds interesting, and it sounds like you really like your kitchen! But I have to ask, what is a "pony wall"?

Just to answer your question...No, I don't think it will look awkward to have the oven against the wall. It should have a scribe piece in between it and the wall, and you could make that into more of a spacer if you want to bump it out just a tiny bit. A scribe piece is usually about a 1/2" piece shaped to your wall, so depending on how straight your wall is, it could vary in width to anything less than the 1/2"...But you could put in a wider piece to accomplish the scribing and get you a little space.

I would love to post some photos and will try (again) when i get home from work.

A pony wall is one that is only 36" from the floor. So in your case you would remove the wall from the ceiling down to 36" from the floor, put a narrow piece of countertop material on top and you have your perch. Also known as a knee wall.

Is the upper window midpoint 5'6" from the foyer wall? That's the best I can guesstimate. Exact inches matter if you want symmetry.

Here's another thought. I am a big fan of dual use rooms, especially a dining room/study/project room combo. Your DR space is 16 wide. Don't know the size of your DR table, but seems there is plenty room there for a storage wall for books, china, craft supplies, etc. AND your desk area. Closed or open is up to you. It can be as formal or casual as you like.

Giving over that 4 feet of prime real estate counter to the kitchen really opens up options for you.

Here's one with 13'6' to the end of the fridge and the 5' X 7'6" island.

I tried angling the ovens in the corner but that robs you of the baking center. I don't mind that two ft square recess/appliance garage - great for storing the mixer, big dough bowls, etc. And as I repeat constantly: I hate corners. This is as good a use as any. Will need work to look and function right. Hmmmmm....OOOO - OOOO this could be better but I don't have time to redraw it. Flip the ovens and baking center: 1)Better light from the window toward the baking center and 2)the baker is less wedged in and can spread toward the cleanup zone - that's better than spreading toward the cooktop. The cooktop then would have 21 inches either side. Enough?

This one has full 48 inch aisles. You could go narrower to pull the island in toward the corner or to make the island bigger. Counter runs are allocated well for tasks. Work flow is good. Multiple things can occur (emptying DW, baking prep, taking out trash, etc) without collisions. You can curve or angle the island seating, or trade seating for more base cabinetry. Cabinetry would fall out in standard sizes - nothing too weird except that corner garage.

Oh, and your window is centered :-) I think.

If the ovens go back to where I had tham, that would leave only 20 inches between stack and a centered standard 33" sink base. A 27" cleanup sink/cabinet would just about give you the reccommended minimum 24" counter to the oven stack.

Comptomises, compromises...

Love the ideas here.. we are in similar dilemna, bought a home.. we knew the kitchen had to be "changed" but are looking at a huge remodel.. smaller kitchen but similar design so this post has helped a lot... anyone know of brand of stainless steel farmhouse kitchen with apron...we want one. but haven't seen any available yet.. thanks for the help
linda

Linda, I hope you saw the message I posted to you regarding software.

I did a search on faucet.com for stainless apron front sinks. The results are linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: stainless apron sinks

Celtic, thanks so much for the suggestions--I'm still trying to work through them in my brain, but my kids are yelling to go outside...so just time for a quick post.

I just wanted to quickly clarify the window situation. Sorry I wasn't clear the first time. The width of that wall with foyer and kitchen is exactly 20 ft. The foyer is 5 ft. wide--then 6 in. wall--then 14 ft. 6 in. for kitchen. So that puts the exact midpoint at 4 ft. 6 in. from the west kitchen wall. So I guess moves the sink from your drawing another foot to the left. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer.

Okay, gotta run out with the kiddo's...

Rhome,

Sorry, I did not receive your reply.. i just changed my profile settings.. would love to know what s/w you used.

thanks for the s/s apron sink link.. you are terrific !!

I made a post on the forum (see link below). I had no way to reply to you personally.

Here is a link that might be useful: my message to you.

4'6" to the foyer wall is even better! Really. Now cleanup and baking zones are properly proportioned. Yay. Zoning is very very nice now. Island can still be tweaked many ways.

I popped in cabinets and used standard appliance cabinet sizes : 33sink base, 27oven, 30 cooktop, 36 refrigerator. You may end up with different sizes. You will know more after you check out appliances and cabinet options. If you come away with 'sticker shock', consider IKEA. But with IKEA, cabinet sizes are more limited, e.g. 36 sink base, 30 oven cab, fewer drawer base sizes etc. Can't beat the price and quality though.

Good luck.

Thanks, celtic! I really thought that centering the sink under the windows above would just make for an awkward layout--but you've made it work really well. I'm trying to picture what it would look like from the inside to have that sink and window so far off center, but I guess it would look much more balanced as far as the windows go. Maybe I should consider doing something different with that foyer wall...shortening part of it, or doing a pony wall (thanks, tbugera!) I just don't want it to cut off the visual continuity of those big windows.

I'm coming to realize that I have a hard time picturing things in my mind. I see one thing, when in reality it will probably appear totally different. But I guess that's a definite benefit to this forum--you all have made me think of details that I never would have otherwise. Much better to think it through now than when the building and installation are complete!

Thank you all so much for your advice, drawings, and expertise. It has given me a lot to think about!

And tbugera, I'd still love to see your kitchen if you get a chance to post photos.

Alicia

Rhome, how do you generate those 3D images? They are sooooo good. I'd love to see if I could do the same with my kitchen. I'm still struggling with my kitchen and wondering how it would feel to actually be in it. I think the 3D program would help. I'm so amazed by the folks on this forum. Not only the great suggestions, but how kind you all are to take the time to offer up those suggestions.

You are very welcome!

I am totally into function and zones and flow of work. Others here are better with the visuals. That said, this draft does have a lot of good symmetry and balance I think - especially on the cooktop wall run. The sink run seems OK too because the upper run has those 3 30 inch cabinets. It isn't weird or busy.

Maybe Rhome will treat us with a mockup (?stack stock wall corner cabinets pulled forward to mock up the appliance garage corner?)

Pretty please?

I'd be glad to update the kitchen renderings, but you lost me back a ways, so I need to clarify. We are working within the same walls, right? If I'm tracking, I think the window is the only thing that moved? My tired and perimenopausal brain needs things spelled out v-e-r-y clearly sometimes! (sorry...TMI)

Please also explain "Stack stock wall cabs" exactly how you want them. I haven't been sure how tall you want the uppers...30", 36", 42", 48"? Celtic, if stacked, would we stack 2 @ 30", so they'd end up even with 42" uppers?

If I don't post a new drawing by about 11:00 (PST) it might not be until late tomorrow or Sat.

Gobruno, I'd forgotten I only did floorplans in Paint for you. If you email me through 'my page' I can do drawings and email them to you? But if you want to play with plans yourself, check out Better Homes and Gardens design software. It's made by the same company that makes the software I use. Mine is the pro version called Chief Architect (DH has it at home because of work, so I get to play on it!), but the BH&G stuff, which give similar results, is available on Amazon for various, much more affordable, prices.

Here is a link that might be useful: BH&G product comparison chart

Rhome, right there with you on the 'perimentalpause'. I can see it better than I can say it. My head about exploded trying to explain, so I sketched it. See now that stacking corner units wouldn't work right, but a regular corner wall unit and garge with counter run into the corner would. Alicia, don't know if you are doing custom cabinets. This would work with stock cabinets if the corner wall cabinet is firred out forward. Deep corners are the absolute worst storage anyway, so little is lost in usable space.

Window center is 4'6 from foyer wall. Looks like a 36 wide would fit.

Fridge creeped a couple inches into DR area. Worth it for the "most important room in the house", Alicia?.

Duh. The uppers either side of the stove would be set at normal depth. I drew them sticking out to the face of the oven stack cabinet.

Depending on the hood, open shelving might be attractive and very budget friendly either side of the hood. I see big serving bowls and platters there.

OK...Here's a start. Still didn't know how tall to make the uppers, so they're shown at 42", ending at 8 ft from the floor. Also, I made my own adjustments to Celticmoon's plan, so you can decide between...I made the window larger, so the uppers on that wall a little smaller. I also gave you a 36" sink cabinet, since I'd hate to see you skimp there. I have the island configured a little differently, but not much. If you want 30" ovens instead of 27", I think you have the room, even remembering you'll need a spacer to the right so the adjacent counter, door knobs, etc. don't interfere with the oven doors.

Also, if you know what colors and materials you might want, I can change the rendering to look more like your own preferences. This is looking like an amazing kitchen.

Here are a couple of the renderings. There are more angles if you click on the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Alicia58801 album of renderings

Very nice job, Rhome!!!

Some folks might not like the ovens breaking up the L, but I think it works well here. I have always liked a framed cooktop area. No intrusions by other tasks. Purely for cooktop work. And allows for a special backsplash treatment there. (Me, I can't figure out where to end my tile. Waaah.) I like the dedicated baking area, and that it is right next to the ovens, and love that the mixer can disappear into the garage. Marble insert for dough there maybe? That'd be a baker's treat.

I might ditch the island seat nearest the fridge to bump the prep sink further toward the DR. I am greedy and would want the uninterrupted prep run as long as possible. Alicia, it comes down to seating vs workspace. Will you have 5 squatters often? (I have either 1 to 3 or else 30, LOL.)

I can see plating/serving happening on the island opposite the cleanup sink and facing the crowd; plates etc stored nearby because the DW is over there. My favorite layouts seem to be ones where the plates etc never even come into the main work area.

Perfect world: "Help? sure. Empty/load the DW, and set the table." - and they don't get underfoot! Yay.

Alicia, this was fun for me. I think it is a good start, but of course the whole thing could be totally wrong for you. Curious what you like and don't like....

I think the oven is a good use of the corner. I actually framed mine in to get rid of it, and only gained a cookbook shelf, so this gives Alicia more purpose for it. I really like a separation of work spaces...No cooking stuff in the baking area and vice-versa.

This is my argument for the prep sink where I show it in the plan: 4 1/2 ft is, in my opinion, plenty long enough for any prep space, and this way there is workspace on 2 sides of the sink (salad prep on one side, stove prep on the other), besides having the option of the seat there...Yet, I think it's still close enough to the end to be of use to people sitting at the island, making beverages, or kiddos needing to wash hands without getting in the way of kitchen work. :-)

Wow! I am so impressed, celtic and rhome, by the way you can just put together a functional and great looking kitchen in such a short amount of time! I am also very grateful for the suggestions and all of the time that you have put into helping me plan my kitchen--thank you so much!

I really like those renderings. And the way you both explain the way the kitchen will function, laying out all of the separate zones, really helps me get a clearer idea of how it would look and feel. As I said, I'm relatively inexperienced in the way of actual kitchens, meaning those more than 5 ft. sqare squished into an apartment. I've been able to picture myself working in that kitchen, and can imagine that I would love the way that everything has its separate space, and all of the space there is to work! Plus I like the way that several people could be in the kitchen without getting in each other's way.

To answer your question, celtic...no, I would usually only have about 2-4 people squatting (love that word!) around the island. And I like the way that the window is centered, and larger as well. Rhome, I agree with your ideas about keeping the prep sink where it is--makes sense to me.

A couple things I am wondering about. I'm not sure how it will look to have that foyer wall bare--without any cabinets on it. Will that wall now appear awkward or, as my hubby said, make the kitchen feel like an office cubical? Also, hubby really isn't crazy about the big rectangular island, says it has no character. I'm really liking the shape and functionality of the island, but do you have any ideas of how to add "character" without sacrificing workspace? Maybe raise the seating?...although not always practical with kids. Hubby is much more partial to the L-shape (which I also still like) but I can see how traffic wouldn't flow as well around that. And although I'm the one spending most of the time in there, he also enjoys cooking. And because I'd like to encourage this, it is important that we are both happy with the layout. I'm definitely open to any thoughts on this.

Overall, I'm really liking this kitchen layout. As far as the asthetics go, rhome, we are going for a slightly rustic feel. So, knotty alder cabinets in a natural finish (light to medium) and stainless appliances. I really like the staggered cabinet look, but have no idea how it would look with our vaulted ceiling. We were thinking about doing a little darker ceramic or slate tile on the floor (although definitely not sure about this) and a darker countertop to offset the lighter cabinets. I was also thinking of doing a darker stain on the island (maybe lighter countertop?). However, as far as feeling goes, I really like a warm and comfortable kitchen--I think my style is traditional to transitional, but definitely not contemporary. Sorry, not many specifics there. But as I said earlier, we are going to do a little shopping tomorrow! Maybe hubby and I can do some conflict resolution and come to a decision...although I'm not holding my breath. :)

Oh gosh, sorry about writing a novel...

I think the empty wall is a great place for some decor. I actually wish I had more blank wall in my kitchen to hang something fun, meaningful, and/or colorful. If nothing else, it's a good place for a calendar, and a board for keeping track of needs for a grocery list.

To go along with the rustic feel, I suppose you could add some beefy legs to the corners of the overhang to add some character to the island. I think of the L-shape as being more contemporary, the rectangle is classic and timeless. To me (warning: personal opinion coming here) the L kind of looks like a portion of the counter disjointed from the rest...and like Celticmoon, I prefer the straight paths the square one offers over the maneuvering necessary to get around the L. If you want to do something like the staggered look, I think the rectangle is more in keeping with that style, and the shape won't compete with what's going on up on the wall. Sorry to sound so biased...Just trying to share an impression.

I will work on some upper cabinet height variation, the colors you want, and, hopefully, some character for the island tomorrow...So check back and let me know what you think.

Your husband has a point about the wall risking a cubical-y look. A bigger challenge is that you will have that high vaulted ceiling and elaborate wide window at its peak. So the wall has to stop partway up, no? It's that open top and 'dead end' that concerns me more than whether there are cabinets against it.

One option would be to sort of box in the foyer area. Either just a beam across or an arch or some structure that marks the end of the foyer, or fully close in the foyer ceiling at a standard height. (Sometimes transitioning through changes in ceiling heights makes the higher open areas more striking.)

My house is also an open floor plan with vaulted ceilings, and there are cross beams and collumns that define the foyer, DR, hall and LR. The beams have uplighting in them which is kinda cool at night. The point is that a cross beam or arch changes the space and could help anchor that dividing wall between kitchen and foyer.

Good luck with the appliance scouting, as those choices drive what happens next with your planning. Budget reality may rear its head too and force some decisions.

And if you haven't found it yet, here's a link to pix of folks' finished kitchens. Lots and lots and lots of island ideas there. Hopefully you will find something you both like.

Here is a link that might be useful: finished kitchen blog

You might want to think about trimming the wall. It only postpones the view of the kitchen for about 3 feet - everyone still enters into the kitchen before reaching the dining/living space.

I know you think its preserving the idea of formal entry, but it won't actually do that - first vista of "home" is still the island and cooking wall.

So you might try clipping the wall back to maybe 42" and then lessening the depth of the island to 4 feet. That way the kitchen won't quite look so crammed in to the space.

OK...knotty cabinets with staggered uppers, dark counters and tile floors, dker island with lighter counter, some legs for the island for character, and a take on Celtic's suggestions about the entry...See what you think:

Please ignore the shadow above the entry in the first and third renderings. I have no idea what it is or why it's putting it there, but couldn't get rid of it.

Yeah Rhome, that's kinda what I was trying to describe.

But walls and trim rather than timber, and with a solid wall on the kitchen side.

Folks over on Home Decorating or Home Building could probably come up with other options for the 'cubical' concern.

Better, Celticmoon?

Yeah.

Still an odd situation. Not sure where the vault starts and how the wide upper window sits vis a vis the foyer wall. Don't know what I would do with it. Other than seek help from an architect, designer or the Building and the Decorating Forums as said. It is a challenge beyond my kitchen head's ability.

Alicia, hope the appliance scouting went well.

If I was better with the software, I could probably do it, because I'm sure the software can do about anything if it's run by the right person! I'm just too lazy to get into it that far. I get too involved in all of this as it is! ;-) My family thought they were tired of my obsession with kitchens when we were designing and building...Silly people thought it would end when we had ours.

Again, thanks you for the suggestions! I have so much to think about with this kitchen, I'm starting to feel slightly crazy! Our shopping expedition went ok, but it ended up being more about trim, flooring, and windows than anything for the kitchen--but that was good too!

Celtic, I would love to see your home. Would you be open to posting any photos? We have been thinking about putting up crossbeams on the ceiling, so it would be great to see how you used them to separate your spaces.

I actually liked the rendering with the beams defining the foyer, but I'm not sure how that would work with our ceilings. One thing I was thinking about after meeting with the window guy...the three windows in the peak above the sink wall are each 36" wide, so would I want to keep the window in the kitchen 36" wide? Is this enough light in the kitchen--even though there will be the three big windows above? Or would a 4 ft. window be better, even though it is centered under a 3 ft. window? Does this even make sense?

Okay, well thanks again! And rhome, funny you should mention your kitchen obsession, as my husband thinks my obsession with trying to plan our kitchen is bordering on insanity! I guess they just don't understand... :)

My house is not square and has a lot of angles. I have just a couple pictures from before redecorating - please don't look at the couch, etc, just the beams.

From LR loooking toward entry. Coat closet straight ahead. The entry door is behind that built in curio. I often wish I had a proper separate foyer. (Resizing is not cooperating for me. Sorry.)

Here's the view turning a little left toward the DR. The beams are defining the DR area and the hallway to BRs that wraps back and to the right.

Moving toward the DR, kitchen ahead to the left and BR hallway to the right.

There are skilights up there and the beams have lighting. Actually outlet strips tied to a wall dimmer and simple light sockets plugged in at intervals. Fun to plug in Christmas lights up there too. Maybe a train set one year, LOL.

Those are the only pix I have. HTH.