Amazing floors!
Love the front doors!

have to study your layouts more.
Amanda

Thanks, huango!

I just updated the post to rotate the layouts and hopefully make the proposed plan a little more clear. I know it didn't scan very dark and was hard to read.

This may seem like a weird question. Which seat does the DD use at the peninsula for homework? Does she sit at the end by the wall?

I think that your current peninsula is a bit tucked away from the work area of the kitchen proper. In the new island it will all be out in the open, and I am concerned that the island won't seem as cozy. In fact the island may seem less inviting for DD to use for homework pushing her to the table area. If that happens, then the table area becomes far more important in the layout and functional design.

juliekcmo - DD does her homework and eats breakfast at the second seat in from the aisle, just in front of the sink. If she has a friend over they usually take the 2 center seats.

I wouldn't mind having a cozy kitchen table for her to use instead, because I'm always worried about water from the sink getting her artwork and homework wet. She doesn't sit at the bar height table and chairs we have now though.

No one ever sits at the seat closest to the wall, even when we have several people over and I move the pile of school paperwork that usually lives on the counter there. They all sit and stand around the outside corner of the peninsula, and sometimes at the table and chairs next to the slider.

In our previous home, we redid the kitchen with the able help of GW posters. We also had a U shape and island, although smaller than yours. What I wanted to say is that our layout was very similar to your proposed layout - fridge and ovens at the top of the U, cooktop on the long side, sink and d/w on the bottom of the U. In our case the prep sink was not on the island but was between the ovens and cooktop where we had a second fairly large and much more-often used prep space (better lighting than the island).

Anyway, I am here to tell you it was the PERFECT layout. no one was in anyone else's way. The d/w could be unloaded and the table could be set while I was making dinner. People could access the refrigerator without interfering with anyone else. Just PERFECT.

(FWIW in our kitchen, the d/w was on the other side of the sink, glasses were in an upper cabinet where you have a doorway, and the dishes and cutlery were in drawers in the island facing the sink).

sjhockeyfan - thanks so much. It helps to have input from someone with a similar layout. Do you happen to have pictures of your previous kitchen or a link to a post with pictures that I could look at?

I think my island would be more narrow than it appears in my drawing - was having trouble with measurements for that plan. That's one of the things I'm worried about - that it will be too small to be very funtional. I believe the cabinet company that measured said it would be around 4' by 5'.

This post was edited by juddgirl2 on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 13:01

My island was 4' x 5' on one level and it was fantastic. We even had two stools on the back for casual "perching". I'll see if I can post some pixel or row when I'm on a regular computer.

What's the little stub wall sticking into the peninsula?

Can you do a full depth fridge, and make the cabinets on that wall deeper, so the fridge doesn't stick out? Perhaps instead of a lazy susan in the corner, you could access the corner space from the living room (depending on what's in that corner). I'd use it for photo albums, board games, blankets - the list is endless!

The space you would gain with a deeper counter (and deeper uppers) might make up for losing that corner space in the kitchen.

Or, if you have your heart set on a lazy susan, just make the pantry deeper end deeper, so you only have a difference in depth on the left side. I have an angled corner cabinet, with a super susan and a drawer above (I had a local cabinet maker build mine, so I could get whatever I wanted). I used easy-reach cabinets for the uppers instead of an angled upper cabinet, and I'm happy with the way that turned out.

I like the island layout, but with prep sink in the corner...between fridge and range. This would give you more prep space on the island and seems like a better flow, IMHO.

Maybe butcher block on island? At least across from range? Just an idea :)

I am a bit confused about your dimensions, but I guess the long side of the island would be across the counter on the LR wall. If that is so, I think it would be better to have the range there, and the prep sink across from it. If you have 100" on the DR wall, 36" fridge and 36" pantry can go there (using corner from the LR side as annkh suggested). But if you do that island seating would have to move to bottom right corner, so you can have prep space in front of the range.

For single cooks 42", and for multiple cooks 48" aisles are recommended (http://www.kitchens.com/Design/Layouts/NKBA-Guidelines.aspx), so island dimensions may be determined keeping that in mind, although some are happy with narrower aisles.

Thanks so much for the input so far! I was able to get accurate measurements and updated the initial post with new drawings - to scale this time - of the proposed layout as well as just the kitchen layout (keeping copies of this for future ideas!). I'll also post them below.

I just got my first cabinet quote from the custom cabinet company (for the frameless cabinets) - $24,000 to 26,000 depending on the door style. It was a bit higher than I had hoped, but I know we have a lot of cabinets. For some reason, the quote included a desk where I want my kitchen table to go, so it could come down a bit once that's eliminated. I still need to get a quote from the Shiloh dealer.

sena01 - sorry about the confusion. I was having trouble with the graph paper and my division skills :) I think I have it now. I'm interested in your idea to move the range to the upper LR wall. I actually asked my DH about putting it there or perhaps on the outside wall where the sink might go (might not be good here because main walkway into dining room). That way, there will be enough room for the uppers/lowers and the furniture style hood will be on display when you walk in the room. However, I'm wondering about having the having the refrigerator and pantry deep in my kitchen on the DR wall. Might that bring more traffic into my working area when I'm busy prepping/cooking?

Thank you for the aisle info - I was keeping them at 42" on the inside aisles for now to allow for a bigger island but DH would like to keep them wider.

lavender lass - I like the idea of keeping the island open for more prep space. I'll put the sink on the perimeter in my next drawing and see how that works. Butcher block is a great idea - especially since DH is saying he'll use the walnut counter on the island as a cutting board!

ankh - the little stub wall might be a problem. I thought it was just drywall put in to hold the one upper cabinet facing the cooktop, but just found out the back part of it is actually hiding a support beam. DH thinks he can get it to where it's flush with a slightly deeper cabinet, and then we cover the 3" or so of dead space with some filler cabinet trim. If I do a 26" deep cabinet on this wall it will hopefully be flush with the cabinets. Thanks so much for the Lazy Susan idea - I definitely don't want to lose storage with the remodel and I do use mine to store a lot of my serving pieces now.

sjhockeyfan - thanks, that would be great to see pics if you can post them when you get a chance!

These are the drawings I posted above:

Current Kitchen Layout:

Proposed Layout:

Also, please feel free to tell me if you think the peninsula is just a much better layout for my kitchen than the island is. I think an island will help prevent the bottleneck that happens at the peninsula corner when we entertain but I'm not sure how functional it may be for everyday living. Also, I'm not sure I can live with keeping the oven/microwave combo in the walkway if we keep the peninsula, but maybe there's another option.

I'm only going to get one chance to completely remodel this kitchen for the next 20 years or so, and I want to make sure I get it right the first time!

Thank you!

Just a thought here:

- You have a gorgeous diningroom and instead of having triple seating (island, corner breakfast table, and DR), I thought of this. It didn't sound like a lot of people use the corner table.

DD has a big island to do her homework/away from prep sink.
most people stand around island at parties/gatherings.

sorry if this layout doesn't work for you. it came to me because I don't use the oven when I use the cooktop; DH uses the oven so he'd be over there, while I'm at cooktop.
or he'd be at sink while I'm at prep sink.

and your DD will grow up and help cook so everyone will have a spot.

the fridge may seem far but I usually grab the stuff I need to cook (like Rachel Ray). And it's good that the fridge is not in the cooking area; I don't like people near me when I'm cooking and they're reaching for ketchup or cream for their coffee, or yogurt snack...

store cups/plates at end of island (see arrows facing slider).

I went through many iterations to get my perfect layout.
And I really appreciated everyone's ideas. I was stuck/obsessed w/ MY idea when a few people's suggestions finally pushed me past what I thought was right and when I accepted their ideas/parts of their ideas, the best layout came through.

huango - thanks so much for the idea of putting a bigger island there instead of the kitchen table and for the drawing that gives me a visual!

It's something I've considered every time we have a get together. I do think it makes for a better use of the space for entertaining and DD using the island. I actually thought of doing a long, narrow island across the width of the kitchen but I also like the deeper one that you've drawn.

Two things I'm worried about - 1) resale (do people want kitchens with room for a table even with an island? I'm not sure) and 2) losing my comfy perch for my morning coffee that I have now on the sofa - I don't care for island seating myself, although everyone else in my family seems to like it (totally selfish!).

This gives me something new to consider - thank you!

few more points:
1. I would skip the glass uppers at sink wall and put in huge/gorgeous windows.
sorry for strong opinions, but I feel like your current kitchen is a cocoon of cabinets.
I am totally enjoying my 23feet wall of windows w/ the sun streaming in.
you can't store much in glass cabinets except for pretty things, and you have so much storage for that already:
- foyer hutch
- Diningroom hutch
- the other hutch (little picture up top).

2. w/ the fridge on this wall, you can get a standard depth fridge, which is less expensive while more capacity.
pull all the rest of cabinets flanking fridge to be same depth so it all looks built-in.

3. my gf had a similar/much smaller version of your current kitchen w/ the table and no one really sat at the table. parties/gatherings were difficult.
and she renovated to a slightly similar layout to my suggestion and parties flow so nicely and seamlessly.

Re resale: really depends on how long you're living there.
for my masterbathroom, i'm putting in a large great shower and NO bathtub (I already have 2 other bathtubs in the rest of house). My friends balk at the idea saying resale resale, but these are same friends who take 1, maybe 2 baths per year, BUT they take DAILY showers in the tiny/prefab plastic enclosures.

keep tweaking...
Amanda

Something similar to Amanda's, but unfortunately sink not in front of the window, because I have your sofa there instead.

I have a coffee table on one side of the sofa and a hutch on the other, and moved the beverage/wine fridge near the sliding doors. Main fridge and pantry are on the LR side of the 186" wall. I believe without a dining table you can extend the island to nearly 100" and still have 48" aisles on two sides.

I have 2 other layouts where the main fridge are near the DR assuming that anything needed from the LR side can be kept in the beverage/wine fridge

The first has a smaller squarish island. Fridge is on the exterior wall, and there are shallow cabs next to the main fridge. Pantry is next to the sofa.

The last. at last has the main sink in front of the window-))

Amanda - thanks so much for your input! I'm going to show your ideas to the cabinet designer. Re the windows - having more windows would bring so much more light into the kitchen and we would have a have a great view of our Canary date palm tree and pool. I'm not sure I want to sacrifice all these uppers though. That's where I was planning on keeping my everyday white dinnerware, glassware, and white coffee cups. I keep these in most of the uppers next to the range and inside the peninsula now.

I think the red hutch will have to go if we bring in a beverage center, but I do keep a lot of my larger serving pieces in the foyer hutch. The bins in the dining room hutch are filled with soccer balls and roller skates :-)

sena01 - thanks so much for those amazing drawings! I wish I could do that! I really like the idea of the range on the LR side and the pictures really help to visualize it. It's great to have different designs to choose from and I like that you fit my little sofa in too :)

What do you think about the island extending into the room more, as shown in the first and last drawings, as this relates to the traffic flow between the kitchen entrance and the slider to the backyard? I had thought of extending the wall of cabinets on the LR side further into the 110" opening (eliminating the small row of cabinets opening to the great room), and also extending the island a bit as you've shown, but didn't know if cutting off the clear path to the rear slider would work. Part of it might just be that I'm so used to established traffic patterns through the kitchen, it's hard to imagine how different ones might work.

Thanks again!

tossing in 2 cents here... I find my EIK seating used about as much as the island seating. But, my kitchen is not connected directly to the formal DR (there is a foyer inbetween). Thus, casual meals and work is more comfortable at the lower height, but a snack and party conversation revolves around the island (based on T-day)

I like sena's plan because is better set of zones and no partial barrier in front of the fridge. It is also a much, much shorter leg on the work triangle. One suggestion would be to make the sofa a window seat with storage... not as comfortable as a sofa, but with pillows a good place for a break. Your original also works, with the seating.

I did some math. But as I'm no expert there may be things I'm missing.

You have 117+72= 189" on the slider wall. If you leave a 36" passage you are left with 189-36= 153" for the cabs on the DR wall + 42 or 48 aisle + the island. With 42" aisle island can be 85.5", with 48" aisle 79.5" (with 1.5" counter overhang for cabs and 15" bar). I don't know how islands are constructed, but I think with 85.5" you can have 15 bar+21 sink+48 cabs (with 1.5 overhang).

I hope that makes sense--))

sena - thanks for doing the math! That's been one of the hardest parts of kitchen design for me. I'm spacially challenged and always have more room in my head than IRL :-)

gooster - I think we would use EIK seating more too if it was more banquette style rather than bar height seating (our kitchen table now). Also, overflow guests do sit at my table and chairs when we entertain and there's no room at the peninsula.

Also - I just found out this morning that DD's favorite part about the new kitchen design is the banquette seating. Apparently, her friend has this at her house and my DD is really excited about it. Who knew? :-)

So, I drew up a new plan incorporating some of Amanda and sena's ideas to expand the island and move the range, but still keeping a small banquette. I eliminated the white cabinets separating the great room and extending the living room wall more into the kitchen entrance to allow for a longer range wall. It also allows for a longer island and for centering of the large range on the island (I like the symmetry of this).

The beverage center could look more like a stand-alone hutch, even though it would be built in. I used a smaller banquette with a round table. We just need a small space for my morning coffee and DD's snacks, plus extra seating while entertaining. I don’t think we’d have much room for a seat at the table because of the island seating, but maybe just one.

What do you think, it is too crammed in or okay? Does it look and function okay to have the island partially in front of the rear sliding door? I think there’s enough walkway space (without a chair at the banquette). There should be a minimum of 45" or more of aisle space everywhere except between the island seating and the round kitchen table.

I could make the island a bit more narrow at 42" and still allow for two stools, I think.

Another angle:

This post was edited by juddgirl2 on Wed, Dec 4, 13 at 12:33

Also, is this creating the "barrier island" I've been reading about, or am I okay since I have the prep sink in the island (I could also move the prep sink to counter between range and refrigerator, as suggested).

Just a few more moving the island seating to face the range to open up the space more between the island seating and the kitchen table. I could make the island more narrow if there's not enough room. It's 45" now only because my graph paper is using multiples of 9" :-)

Prep sink in the island, island seating facing range, and the command center opening up into the great room:

Prep sink on the perimeter counter, island seating facing range, and the command center/drop off zone incorporated into the beverage center cabinets.

It looks like you are making good progress, Juddgirl. : ) Your island in the last picture is not considered a barrier island. In order for it to be a barrier, I think the fridge would have to be located at the bottom of the page so that the fridge and stove would be on opposite sides of the island from each other. That's the sort of thing you'd want to avoid. As long as you've got a prep sink near the stove, you're good.

Having our clean-up area removed from our main work space in our current home a bit like you've got drawn has been an interesting experiment for us. I like it in the sense that it allows people to clean up without interfering with the prep space too much. However, I do miss being able to pivot and drop dirty items into the cleanup sink. And it's rather out of the way for turning and loading a few dishes in the DW or washing a couple of items in the midst of the cooking process. It makes clean-up-as-you-go a little more challenging.

Have you seen A2Gemini's window seat with her amazing storage on either side of it? I wish I could find a picture of the storage units when they are open. She designed some really neat features into them that you might be able to incorporate into your command zone. I'll link her kitchen reveal and maybe someone else could share some open cab shots. Or you could give her a call out. She still pops in around here.

Here is a link that might be useful: A2Gemini's Reveal. Her nook is quite a way down the page.

Thanks, laughable - I will check out that link. I'm actually really liking the last few drawings! If I narrow the island to 36", I might want to move the prep sink to the perimeter so there's more counter space available. Thanks for explaining barrier island to me. I had an idea of what it meant, but wasn't sure what components made it an obstacle.

I understand what you're saying about the clean up sink being a bit out of the way. I'm actually used to walking back and forth across this stretch of kitchen now, because my prep zone now is along the back LR wall. It's not too bad and I need the exercise but I'm practicing in my kitchen now to try it out :-) I was more worried about having the sink so far from the range because I make a lot of pasta and want a short trip to the colander (I like the quick pivot and drop I have now too), but I think I could use the prep sink for that.

This post was edited by juddgirl2 on Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 2:12

Are you planning to get rid of seating or to make shallow cupboards under the 36" deep island? To use standard cupboards, plan 24" for the cupboard depth + 12-15" for the depth of the seating overhang +another inch to 1 1/2" for the overhang.

Think about whether or not others will be using the prep sink when you are working in the kitchen. If you think others might like to use it, put it in the island. If you want to drain and fill pots without pivoting, then the perimeter will work nicely. But then there is also washing fruits and veggies for slicing, washing gooey fingers when baking, washing guck off when cutting up meat... Those are all things I'd want to do at that nice big island. : )

laughable - thanks for the info re measurements for the island. I definitely want to keep the seating for 3 at the island and would like to use standard size cupboards for storage there too so it sounds like I need to keep the island at least 42" to allow for leg room.

My adult DD and future D-in law do help me in the kitchen during get togethers and I could see them using the prep sink to wash veggies and fruit. DH would also probably use it to assist in his bartending when we entertain, unless we can put a small bar sink in the beverage center. (Is that strange to have 3 sinks in a kitchen of this size though?)

If you decide to move the prep sink next to the range maybe you should consider having 2 pantry cabs, with fridge b/w them, so the fridge won't be right behind you when you're at the prep sink. With 24" pantry cab + 36" corner + 24 prep sink and a 30" cab you'll have 8 3/4' b/w the fridge and the range (if my math is correct). Would that be too long? NKBA recommends maximum 9' if I remember right.

If you move the fridge across the island, island would move a few inches to the right (to keep a 45" aisle from the handle of the fridge to the edge of the island), but I think it can still be 81" or shortened if prep sink would no longer be there. If the range is not very deep, I think 45" depth for the island would be fine.

With the fridge in the middle of 2 sinks your DD and D-in law can easily use the main sink to wash veggies, and I already have a bar sink for your DH (easy spending your money lol).

I played with your banquet table a little. Started with a round table and ended with an oval one of 40x45 (or is it 45x40?) Just an idea....

This is similar to my layout, which I love. My sink is in the island opposite the rangetop and I like prepping there with a view toward people at the island, and at the table. If you really wanted your sink on the same wall as the rangetop perhaps it could be on the right side and function there as a bar sink? Prepping at it and facing into a corner as shown with it left of the range would feel claustrophobic to me and having people think about going past my cooking zone to get a beverage there would be not be okay.
I'm biased, but think the island sink, and seating on two sides is the way to go.

kksmama - I am really liking this layout also. I never thought I'd be able to have an island centered on a large range in this kitchen and am thrilled that it might work. I think I agree about the prep sink being on the island. One good thing about my clean up sink now is I can face people at the peninsula when I'm washing and prepping food, and I'd still be able to do that if the prep sink is here.

I'm willing to sacrifice some storage space under the island to allow an 18" overhang on 2 sides so I can fit 4 seats there. Prep space and seating are my main priorities for the island. I'll draw it tonight when I have access to my computer.

Sena - I love, love the drawing. Thank you! I will definitely consider a narrow oval table for the banquette. I usually prefer rectangle or round tables, but the oval will probably work better here - more table space than round and doesn't have sharp corners to bang into. Great idea!

I'm wondering, if I put the prep sink in the island, 1) where do you think the fridge should go on the DR wall - near the doorway or closer to the range, and 2) which direction should the prep sink face - the fridge/pantry or range wall (I'd like 3 stools facing the range if possible so I'm thinking this may affect placement of sink)?

I hope Buehl and Amanda will chime in here, I owe my island to them. Here is the layout

You can see that I didn't have any choice wrt to fridge, and sink was placed so that there was sufficient work room on both sides and trash on the right. I only recently saw the thirty-one design rules and was happy and not at all surprised that my kitchen mostly followed them thanks to gw.

Here is a link that might be useful: 31 design rules

I'd have the fridge close to the range. If you have it near the doorway that may require turning corners, if prep sink would be in front of the range wall (which I'd prefer). Besides, fridge is needed more in the kitchen than the DR imo.

If you won't have a bar sink, then I'd have the prep sink on the bev. center side, preferably after a narrow cab if no bar overhang there, otherwise, I'll have it near the fridge side, again after trash.

In either way you'll be working in front of the range (you can't easily escape from a 48" range now, can you?)

I assumed that MW would be somewhere in the island, but with 18" bar and 4 seats, I guess it would be on the perimeter or in the pantry cab. You'll have around 40" continuous counter on the island. Would that be enough for baking, or would you need more space (seems you have more now)? If you need more, which side of the range would that be? If b/w range and fridge, then MW goes to the pantry I guess.

3, or even 2 seats across the range can be difficult when DW door is open imo.

kksmama - I really like the layout of your island. I can't picture what the overhang might look like on the 2 sides. Do you have a picture posted on GW I can look at?

sena - good point about seating across from the range interfering with DW door. I hadn't thought of that. I eliminated the seat in front of the DW. Hopefully 2 seats will work.

I put the m/w in an upper (cubby maybe?) on the left side of the range, near the corner. DH is tall and doesn't want one below the counter.

I think the counter space on the left side of the range would probably be used for my baking area, but I might spread out on the island if it's just me and DD home. I just need a small area for my mixer but I don't roll out pastries or bread. Maybe I could keep the mixer in the corner between the fridge and range walls.

I moved the sink to the top corner of the island. Definitely like it better on the island. More perimeter counter space and I can visit with company when I'm prepping.

I also changed to an oval table - it does work better, doesn't it?

How does this look?

I just realized I now have 2 trash areas relatively close together. Should I just have 1 larger pullout for trash and recycling in the lower corner of the island, between the main sink and prep sink (pretty much where it is now)?

I think it would be OK to have a single trash close to prep. Did you see beaglesdoitbetter's trash that can be used both from front and side (post dated Feb 7, 12 at 12:33)?

I love my island and will be forever grateful to Buehl and Amanda for persuading me to make it one level. Do not forget to have a plan for electric everywhere you need it (ideally all four sides) before granite is installed! And give some thought to your corner radiuses. I really think you need trash and recycle in the prep zone, and small trash under the clean-up sink. Prep is where most of the waste is generated and more most time is spent. Here is one reveal picture, more on linked thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: kksmama reveal

Thank you for the link, sena. I've never seen anything like that before! I think I'll move the trash and recycling pull out to the lower corner of the island, and maybe have a small trash under the main sink, like kksmama suggested.

kksmama - love your island and your entire kitchen! You have wonderful storage - one thing I'm looking forward to if we go with full overlay frameless instead of inset. Thanks so much for posting the detailed picture of the inside post under the island. It's just what I was hoping to see - very nice! Thank you for the tip on the electrical outlets too. I definitely don't want to miss these types of details.