If you are changing the lighting or electrical layout, this should be decided early on because this will be done before cabinets are installed. Are you doing a total gut down to the studs?

Maybe it would be helpful to know the general order that things are installed (this is assuming a total gut):

demo/gut
rough plumbing
rough electric
insulate
drywall
spackle
paint or at least prime walls and ceiling (I prefer to prime first and paint after any wood floors are site finished)
install floors
finish floors if they are wood that will be site finished (you may decide to save the last finish coat until after everything else is installed)
cover floors with kraft paper and cardboard (no tape directly on floors)
install cabinets
install window, door, base trim, crown molding
install appliances
install sink (if apron front and undermount)
template counters
install counters
install sink with counters (if undermount and not apron front)
install faucets
install backsplash
paint walls, trim and ceiling
install finish electric (ceiling fixtures, undercabinet lighting fixtures)

Some of these can be done in a different order, such as the backsplash. It is important to install the floors before cabinets, however. Hope this helps.

Countertops and cabinetry go hand in hand. You'll want to know the counter material to make sure it looks good with the color of cabinetry you have selected.

Plumbing fixtures and knobs- these came last for me. They are all almost interchangeable unless something about your layout determines something specific. Appliances need confirmed before cabinets to make sure you have allotted enough space and the configuration will work. Determine your lighting early on as in location and spacing and amount. The fixtures came come later as long as you allow for the correct kind of fixtures up front. Flooring ties in with the cabinet material and should be installed prior to cabinets (if possible). Backsplash comes last.

In order:
install electrical for ceiling lights and undercounter
paint walls
install floor
order cabinets and place slabs for counters on hold
install cabinets
install moldings and trim
install countertop (have plumbing fixtures selected and on hand)
install lighting fixtures
install backsplash (you need light to select the tile for the backsplash in your space)
Install plumbing fixtures
touch up painting
finish electrical *undercounter

Kitchenkrazed09 and Brianadarnell - this is exactly what I was looking for. Great advise! Thank you.

I am currently only on step #5, oh the fun that I have awaiting me!!!

So, here is what I have found out in my very limited time and experience. I thought that I was doing something nice and simple since I wasn't changing the existing layout so much. However, even minor changes seem to involve big work. Are you adding any lighting? I am just "popping in two pendants light" and lighting a couple of cabinets, apparently that means that my entire popcorn ceiling may need to come down. I want to get rid of my "desk" and just have regular height cabinets. Well that means that I have to move up the phone jack and electrical outlet so may need to patch up the walls. Anyway, you can see where I am going with this. Unless you want to manage all the moving pieces, you might want to talk to a general contractor because all that will need to be done before the cabinets.

Have fun, I have already found a liquor store that is offering 20% off cases of wine. I visited them....twice. Since I haven't actually had to put any money down yet as I am still in the bidding process I haven't had to resort to robbing them, but it is good to know that it is in my future.

I'd laugh, but I'm so scared.

live wire oak.....This was SO funny~~~but kinda true at the same time...I wonder if the "nice white staff" were in the same "nice white room" as the "nice white kitchen"!
Acutally, did you make up this or not? If you did, you need to be writing a column because you did a heck of a good one. Thanks for the laugh this morning :-)

tashamh2,

Earlier today you posted about a cabinetry quote you got.
(Did someone tell you it's too early for that now?)

You are right that many big steps come before your
"Step #....: Pick out cabinetry"

Your layout thread is a good place to concentrate your energy. This includes discovering what your walls are made of, how they were built, what you electricity is now, what your plumbing is now, etc.

This is atypical advice but I think the first thing is to think about how you use the space now and how you want to use it in the future.

Then ask yourself if you will really change your habits?

Then spend some time thinking through the path of your food preparation from storage to prep/cooking to plating to table and back for clean-up and storage. Thinking about the food (and dish and cookware) pathway is critically important to creating a clear picture of your functional needs.

Notice that at this point I have not suggested outlining all the features (decorating and otherwise) that you want, or are dreaming of. Nor have I suggested collecting a lot of pretty pictures in a file. (You will probably be doing that, but it's at your own risk.)

The next step is to carefully measure your space, including all items like windows, doors, outlets, gas, drains, appliances that are to be re-used, etc. Making a measured drawing on graph paper will help you start with an accurate understanding of your physical space, and its limitations and possibilities.

Next start to play around with layout ideas (ask for help here as you begin to refine your plans). This is where the ideas about aisle widths, islands, prep sinks, appliance types, etc. start to come into play. The point is to design the best work flow pathways within the space, taking into account how you intend to use the space.

Once you have a layout in semi-final form, now you need to start thinking about your budget. How much is a good figure to plan on? This has nothing to do with what you want to have in the kitch, but everything to do with what you can afford to, want to, etc., spend on the project. Make sure to allow for a good emergency cushion within the budget number. You will need it.

OK, now, at last (!) you are ready to start populating the layout with kitchen eye candy regarding materials, styles, colors, fixtures, specific appliance choices. etc. Surprisingly, this is actually one of the toughest points since most of us have to reconcile our tastes with our pocketbooks (and often to our spatial reality.). If you do this step too early in the planning you will have a harder time letting go of some things you have mentally adopted which either don't work with the final layout, or can't be afforded within the budget. That's why layout work and budget determinations should be done first.

But don't worry, nobody does this perfectly in the right order. Just be aware that the more, and the earlier, you fill your mind's eye with how you want the kitch to look before you've settled on a layout and budget, the more anguish you are in for when reality starts to bite.

Reality's depredations are not entirely a bad thing however. They are what raises a kitchen from just a space with everything (including the the kitchen sink!) plunked in it. It is what refines a design and helps to avoid incoherence.

Now the plan, budget and decorative and appliance choices should be starting to all come together. Likely as not there will still be some points where you have to tack back and re-think your ideas or choices. My advice is to mentally go through these steps again at each of these points to make sure you stay on track.

Oh, and of course, spend some (even more) time here starting with the READ ME thread, and do the Sweeby test, etc. These are invaluable tools.

HTH,

L.

I am currently only on step #5, oh the fun that I have awaiting me!!!

So, here is what I have found out in my very limited time and experience. I thought that I was doing something nice and simple since I wasn't changing the existing layout so much. However, even minor changes seem to involve big work. Are you adding any lighting? I am just "popping in two pendants light" and lighting a couple of cabinets, apparently that means that my entire popcorn ceiling may need to come down. I want to get rid of my "desk" and just have regular height cabinets. Well that means that I have to move up the phone jack and electrical outlet so may need to patch up the walls. Anyway, you can see where I am going with this. Unless you want to manage all the moving pieces, you might want to talk to a general contractor because all that will need to be done before the cabinets.

Have fun, I have already found a liquor store that is offering 20% off cases of wine. I visited them....twice. Since I haven't actually had to put any money down yet as I am still in the bidding process I haven't had to resort to robbing them, but it is good to know that it is in my future.

This is all great advice!

live_wire_oak - thanks for the laugh. i'm actually scared now.

davidro1 - based on your advice, i'm bringing in contractors next week to help me understand the bones of my house and what it will take to remodel the kitchen...and other areas.

liriodendron - invaluable advise! i'm not much of a cook. i do salads and 2 pot max meals. so, based on your advise, i need to think through having enough room for prepping salads, for my coffee pot and soda maker, etc. as i have admitted in another posting, i'm a beauty over form kind of person, so i jumped right into the fun stuff of picking out cabinets and other finishes. but i now understand from many of you that i need to slow my roll and spend some time on the "non-sexy" parts so i can achieve the beautiful results i have in mind. thank you, everyone.

Good advice on all of the above, but especially LWO's point about the liquor.! LOL!

The budget point is one I"ll cover since it's the one that ususally hits the hardest. Most people do not have unlimited funding for a kitchen project, and everyone goes through sticker shock on what things cost. As a guideline, plan to spend between 10-20% of your home's value on a kitchen remodel if you are to stay within the range of your neighborhood values. And have a contingency fund as well. Most people have a hard time with this if they've become too attached to pretty pictures too early in the process or read this forum without having a plan in place.

You can be "convinced" that you need all kinds of things that you never heard of until you came here. You don't need half of the stuff you think you do! LOL! Make a priority list of functional changes that need to happen, such as under cabinet lighting, or plumbing for an instant hot, and those take priority over decorative choices that can be added later. When prioritizing, list alternative choices that you can fall back on to save some money, because you will need to utilize at least a few of those choices, and it's much better to be researched and prepared up front if you find that the gorgeous marble that you want is eating up 1/3 of your budget. What's second place for everything?

And, pick one thing that you absolutely WILL NOT compromise on. You're doing this to make yourself happy, and there will already be enough compromises along the way. It might be a hand crafted copper farm sink, or a art glass chandelier or a specialty wood for the cabinets. Choose one thing that you really love, even if it's darn expensive and you feel guilty about it.

"Reality's depredations are not entirely a bad thing however."

O the joy. O the pain. O the scales falling off my eyes. O the will to avoid incoherence.

Thanks, L.

I think picking out a backsplash, should be done at the same time as picking out cabinetry and countertops. Your backsplash is just as important and should not be an afterthought...like an accessory. See the many GW threads, to see how many people have difficulty, when they wait too long to choose a backsplash.

I suspect lwo is well into her cups. And we're all benefiting.

While you're fretting about budget and layout and night terrors, I strongly suggest you read each and every "Design Around This" thread. There are 10 by now (I mislabeled the last one 9, so there are two of those, sorry). That is how you design a space. Not by pointing at a random bunch of separate things you like and saying, "Ooh, one of those!" and then coming on GW crying because it all looks like *** together.

GreenDesigns advice is right on. It has had to be a little bit of a brutal awakening that your money doesn't go quite as far as you would have hoped. Plus it is a bit disheartening to also ask for advice/feedback on your selections and told that what you picked is crap so have you considered this much nicer, but twice the cost alternative. The reality is that people have different budgets so helpful suggestions about what is best may be fantastic, but if you can't afford it then it is not what is best for you. I also like the advice to pick one thing that is most important and stand firm, otherwise you will feel like you are compromising all over the place and may have regrets later on. In my case, I held fast on the fact that I wanted to have cabinets to my 9 foot ceilings. Everybody who walked in here has tried to talk me out of those (including my husband) but I just know if I didn't do that one thing, I would look at it and always wonder how it would look. I am sure everybody has that one thing that is the most important part of their vision.

So, getting to the "design around this thing", if I offer up in a thread all of my separate things that I want to put together, you guys be willing to give some advice on how it will look together in the end (and photoshop it all together too like people do in those threads, oh please please pretty please). And offer within budget suggestion too please. I know it isn't as much fun as picking things out from scratch, but boy would it be helpful to those of us who are kind of unsure about our "design" style.

lwo - frighteningly realistic. If I'd only known . . .

And marcolo's point about studying the Design Around threads is so good - they provide multiple "ah ha!" moments to those of us with scant design experience.

Perhaps one of you GW grand dames (or grand dudes) could add that suggestion to the "New to GW? Read me" post?

I made most every one of the possible mistakes when it comes to approaching design & the order in which one should choose elements. Count me as one who came here (not quite in tears) with a bucket full of things I loved which did not go well together.