My opinion is that a couple tall, vertical pieces would add interest. When looking over the area, you don't want your eyes to just stay in one plane--height adds some drama. A couple nice basalt columns would look nice. What do you think of a nice column that's been drilled out as a bubbling fountain?

Go to www.stoneagecreations for some inspiration.

I do understand that vertical rocks are interesting, add drama and are an important element in Japanese gardens. The problem I'm having is trying to stay natural and not having too many examples in nature of these rocks. Last night I saw some vertical rocks in a movie, Vasquez Rocks which has been used in lots of movies. The site is used because it looks alien and a stereotyped wild west (mainly because it's been used so much). I don't really want to use Vasquez as my model because of this.

Pretty much all the items I see at stone creations typify exactly what I'm trying not to do. Drilled stone columns as a water feature is cool looking in many gardens, but I prefer this garden to my representation of nature. Water coming out the top of a stone column is clearly a man made sculpture, very nice, but never found in nature.

If anyone has any links or picture or books vertical stones found in nature that would be a big help. I've read several books with details on rock shapes, how vertical stones are placed, so I know how it's done. I also know a lot of the stories made up about these stones representing different things which really turns me off. I'm concentrating on the concept of representing nature which I've also read about.

What I don't know is what in nature are they trying to model. Or have I missed the point completely and vertical rocks are not trying to model nature?

If vertical stones weren't used how big a deal wound that be? I already don't want to add any lanterns, basins, tied bamboo structures, etc. If I also don't use vertical stones will I have gone too far and don't have a Japanese garden at all. That I missed the point entirely. My goal is to have a garden that 99% of regular people don't think it is a Japanese garden, but when told it's a Japanese garden believe it. And people who know Japanese gardens will clearly see Japanese and Chinese influences. The biggest in your face "I'm a Japanese garden" will be Koi. I'm even resisting Koi but I like Koi so they'll probably be there. Resistance is futile.

The main reason I'm going this way is because this is Phoenix. There is no way I can have a serious Japanese garden. The best I can do is understand what makes a Japanese garden a Japanese garden and adapt whatever I can to try and get the same feeling people enjoy so much.

I know Japanese designers are said to go out into nature to find rocks...any videos, pics of this process? I haven't been able to find any. I'm looking for models in nature I guess.

In the mean time I'll keep Googling rocks and see what turns up. And keep looking at Japanese gardens to see if I can learn something.

Thanks

I understand what you're saying. If you looked at Stone Age Creations and saw the basalt columns, I have one of their columns that is undrilled. I used it as a focal point in a garden planted off in creeping juniper because those plants stay so close to the ground and I needed something to add height. The great thing about this column is that it's not straight. Even tho the base was cut of level, the column leans to one side and it makes it look more natural.

Some Japanese gardens are very minimalistic--raked white sand with only a couple boulders. Some are much more exotic. I think you should do what YOU want to do whether it's "authentic" Japanese garden style OR NOT. Artistic license, and all that.

I should think there are plenty of online sources to look at if you search for "landscaping with stone." Good luck in your adventure.

After hours of looking at pics and trying to understand why I like some vertical rock placements and not others I came up with it has to do with how the rock is anchored.

Easiest example, zen gardens. Very common to see vertical stones. I'm not personally a big fan of zen gardens but design wise vertical rocks fit the design. I think this works because in this case it's clearly a miniaturized island. But even in cases where the rock only is used, no green base, it works because the entire design is simple. The rocks and gravel, that's it. It is what it is, easy to see it is honest.
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Next placement I like is in water.
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Next placement I like are in groups when there is some transition. Plus the trees behind are taller than the rocks and act a bit like a hillside. Makes it's a little hard to see what exactly is behind the rocks...I can imagine a hillside.
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Combining grouping and in water, but also that the rocks look to be coming out of a hillside. Looks like part of the hill has eroded.
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Where I start to not care for vertical rocks at least for what I'm currently building. Dramatic yes, natural not so much. I'm starting to call these "lone rocks". Even though there are rocks close by it all seems placed by man. Using plants pruned to rock shapes to anchor the rock is man showing how clever he is, not natural imo. Not saying this is a bad design, just not natural which is my goal for my current garden.
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Even in nature I have a problem. These are beautiful landscapes for sure, but scaling these down I think would be a problem. And even though these are all natural they're unique which is why they're state parks and photographed so often. Beautiful to visit but in a small garden I don't think it would work. They would be exciting not calming.
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Closest I could get to a grouping in nature that looked OK to me.
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Finally what I really want to avoid. Large vertical rocks ringing a pond with no hill to back them. How could this formation ever been created in nature I can't imagine. To me this is a version of a pond necklace. Again, very lovely garden viewed in total, but not for my current garden. Picking out these rock placement and dropping them into a different garden just isn't going to work. Can't cut copy and paste chunks.
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So I distilled this down into some guidelines for myself.

OK choices
Lone vertical rocks in water.
Vertical rocks as part of a group.
Vertical rocks coming out of a hillside.

Choices to avoid
Lone vertical rocks on a flat plain.
Lone vertical rocks anchored by plants only.
Lone vertical rocks poking there heads up above plants.

Any comments, harsh or otherwise, are welcomed.

What happened to the pictures?! I'd sure like to see them.
Your ideas about rock placement mirrors my own.
I arrange quarry rock in 'lumpy strings'.
Mike

Not sure. Also some posts are missing so I'm not seeing a reason to keep posting here. I've gone thru this before when a site installs new software and they will work it out and I could take the time to learn yet another new system, but not really seeing it being worthwhile for now.

I don't even see the picture I posted.
I'm about done also.
Mike
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/Botann/

I've been having this same problem in other forums too. One forum closed all threads, archived it all, closed all accounts, made everyone register. Others change the software and do no testing expecting users to do the testing, So being a software engineer I've decided to create an app to help me deal with all this forum, Facebook, stuff. Write once and then have the app do the posting for me. It will also gather all the posts in a forum so I can have more powerful searches across multiple forums if desired, etc. I also don't like the way some forums take ownership of content we create including pictures sometimes. I'd rather keep ownership of stuff I create.

There was a time when server space and bandwidth was expensive so forum owners were providing a service. But that's less true today. Has to be a better way.

And not wasting my time posting has really given me more time to do more interesting stuff like work on this new app. I do miss interacting with people in different hobbies I'm interested in but over the years many of those most interesting people have dropped out of forums. Forums seem more frequented by smart phone users who don't want to read posts longer than 10 words and can't really see pictures very well.

Forums and pretty much all web sites today are after eyeballs and the money that generates so it makes sense that these sites are tailored to the casual user which is going to be using a smart phone. So time for a change I think. Something for the hard core hobbyists who still want to discuss their hobby. Like a email discussion group, which has been around forever and is still used today, but more high tech.

japanesegardening.org has a rubust forum if you want to talk with others who really know the principles and practices of Japanese gardens. The issue with all your pictures not showing up really bothered me as everything you have been sharing is visual. I typically do not frequent this forum however and forgive me if referring someone to another forum is frowned upon.

Thanks. I have read some info on that site.

I'm using forums less and less for many subjects. They contain more and more opinion and fewer knowledgeable people than they did 20 years ago. Luckily there are lots of books on Japanese gardening and so that's where I'm finding the most useful info.

I clicked on my own link and it was my albums in Photobucket.
Here's the rock placement picture I meant to send.
Whoops! Photobucket covers up the links now. I'll figure a way around it.
Anybody know a good picture hosting site?
I found one in my files of a few years ago. It shows part of the rock garden.
I'll keep looking.
Mike

Here's another rock garden in a different part of the garden and using round, water worn rocks instead of quarry rocks. All hand placed, and at no time did my fingers leave my hands. ;-)
It needs some plant work, both added and subtracted to bring it to scale. Maybe this Fall.
I have encouraged the moss and don't want to hide the rocks very much.
Looking west.
Mike

Mike, try imgur.com

Where does one get huge rocks like that? I'm talking the one's that are like 3'-4'....how do you bring them in?