Are you having problems, barbararose, or are you just generally curious?

"Victor" snap-traps have always worked very well for me. http://www.epestsolutions.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=epestsolutions&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=victor-rat-snap-traps&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=2813&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=766963746f722d7261742d736e61702d7472617073&gclid=CLupyKGJssICFRRcfgodyKoAzA
And they are VERY cheap!

If one doesn't want to kill them - good luck getting rid of them - but there are methods and means that will work in the short term until they learn to avoid the traps. Also, you will have to "deal with" the live animals.

"Havahart" makes a small live trap, about 3"x3"x10". http://www.amazon.com/Havahart-1025-Two-Door-Squirrel-Chipmunk/dp/B000BQQMJQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417891207&sr=8-1&keywords=havahart+traps

There is a similar trap used by academic researchers called a "Sherman" trap http://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=651635&s_cid=ppc_gl_shopping&gclid=CI64sOSIssICFZCVfgodXbMAGA

I have used all of the above traps. All of them "work". As do pellet guns, at least for the diurnal pests.

I make no endorsement or recommendation with respect to the above businesses. They were just the first to pop up in a search engine.

Paul

The Victor snap traps are really cheap from a place like Amazon, and they work quite well. I keep a tin cat outdoors in a shed where I know critters might come in. These traps need to be baited once (I use a piece of apple and peanut butter). Mice come in, cannot get out and die. Being cannibals, they will consume previous visitors. Every year or so I dump the contents out, usually just a bunch of bones, and bait again. For a place where there is continuing traffic possible, these traps are hard to beat. We live in an area with high rodent pressure, and no one in the area has ever had success with the sound devices that I know of. If you have a wall, or a place where you can put in a bucket trap, then I would add that. I use a 5 gallon bucket filled a few inches with water, and sprinkled with some sunflower seeds. Either place it up a wall the mice can climb, or put a ramp board up to the top. The mice fall in, and cannot get out. It is a good idea to empty these every couple weeks; they can get smelly, but are pretty effective. For difficult locations I have also had success with sticky traps. Once they are full, sprinkle them with some dirt to get rid of residual stickiness, and leave them outside for the birds to clean up; crows love them.
Renais

Get a terrier. After cornering and killing a few rodents (some as large as the dog), the rodents disappear for new ground. At least, that is my experience with tree rats and an overweight cairn terrier.

I have had little success catching or killing worm bin intruders.
A wide variety of critters are attracted to a worm bin. Some come for the worms and other creatures, some come for the food you provide, and some come for the heat and shelter.
I focus more on bin security. I figure there are more of them than me and I will never eradicate them.

Pictured are two bins with different security systems.
The 'carpet bed' is protected from above and the sides by...carpet. I did have intruders (rats I think) come in under the edge of the carpet. 'Runs' on the surface of the bed just under the carpet were observed. This was solved by weighting down the perimeter of the bed.
The 'worm-cage' was designed primarily with security in mind. The wall cylindrical wall is wire mesh hardware cloth. The top is covered with about 8" of straw/hay mulch. I have never noticed a security breach with the cage.
These two bins shown have NO protection on the bottom, due to location. The moles don't/can't burrow through the densely matted tree roots in the forest floor.
I have other bins elsewhere with hardware cloth below, including a solid wood- wall box with a lid. It is quite secure.

Good luck Barbara!

Pete

Renais1 "Being cannibals, they will consume previous visitors. Every year or so I dump the contents out, usually just a bunch of bones, and bait again." That is a lot more than I knew before.

I suggest a multi pronged approach. Starting sooner rather than later. Realizing you are in a war and outnumbered. Keeping some traps out even when the problem appears gone. Keeping a stock pile of weapons in case a fresh need is discovered they can be deployed immediately. If given a choice between a single or 12 pack get the 12.

I second mendopete "there are more of them than me and I will never eradicate them."

Wish I had worm "bins" like yours, mendopete.

Paul

Bought 2 sticky traps.
Won't use them if the bucket works.
Didn't work first night out. Not well baited. The bucket is inside a city compost bin (pictured) with the ground level door raised slightly. Does a rat need a ramp to get in the bucket ? Edit Apparently this thing is an Earth Machine.
That captured rats will eat previously captured rodents is news.
This worm bin and capture bin are within feet of a city street where a lot of people, children and dogs walk. Renais ?
Would you count on that elimination strategy in that setting?

Also got a mole trap for another location.

As Paul once said: More when there is more.

This post was edited by barbararose21101 on Sun, Jan 11, 15 at 16:01

Watering the greenhouse this morning and flooded a hole I thought was probably a vole. The hole was at the end of the raised bed next to the wall shared with the hen coop and is covered with chicken wire.

Mice started pouring out of the hole and three of them hopped up onto the ledge of the border wall. With a little help with a garden trowel they got close enough to the wire for the hens to snatch them through. Only 3 of the dozen or so that came out went that direction but I have to say it was satisfying to see the hens get that bit of protein. Will have to be prepared to send more that direction next time and I am certain the hens will be watching when I water that bed from now on as they focus intently once they learn where a treat comes from.

I have found mice in buckets around Barbara. I think they are quite capable of jumping up on their own but if you have some bricks or something to make steps for them it might be more effective.

Nexev, great story!
You probably found the nest and they thought it was the "hundred-year flood". I would think the mice have an innate sense that tells them to surface when it rains so they don't drown.
I've noticed worms always seem to be on the surface more during rainy periods We have had 10" of rain in the past 10 days or so. The carpet bin has a heavy tarp laying over it now. I pulled back the tarp yesterday and lots of worms were on top of the carpet and stuck to the tarp. It was a wiggle-dance show when the light hit them! I kinda think they may sense the barometric pressure change. They just won't tell me why they are there.....

Maybe next time you flood the den, have the chickens ready inside the greenhouse, then watch the fun!!

I would put up a ramp for the rodents to climb and see the goodies in the bucket. We don't have rats at all, but the mice seem to appreciate the help of the ramp or a rough wall, and jump on down into the bucket. I wouldn't think that having a street so close would be a big problem; many of the rodents will be out at night when there are not many pets or people to frighten them. You might want to keep it away from passing dogs who, with their inimitable tastes, might sample some of the bucketed rodents.
Renais

Chickens getting voles! OUTSTANDING! I would have loved to have seen that!

Paul

Nexev, Before watering them again could you let them breed a few months, set up a video camera, let the chickens in and then water? For those like me who probably have a mouse sitting on top of their worm bin right now that would be way entertaining than say... the stupid super bowl. Pictures or it didn't happen. Are those mice eating from the worm bin, the compost bin or what? That was certainly an exciting visit to the greenhouse. Maybe we should all have a system where we encourage mice to live in the compost heap that is right inside of the chicken coop.

My oh my would I like to have seen that !
P u h l e e z e try to get a video.
Pay no mind to anyone crying off topic.

Does having chicken coop next to greenhouse
help warm your green house ?
I think I've read about having chickens IN the greenhouse ?

I wonder what I can get away with here.

A video would have been great, will have to think about that if the den reappears. It really was entertaining once the shock of the stream of rodents subsided.

There is one lone quail living in the greenhouse. He had a couple of friends but they departed over the summer. They were living with the chickens but they were kind of mean to them which is why we moved them. When giving the flock tomato worms if one of the quail were lucky enough to get one a chicken would pick it up and shake them to make them drop the worm. They seemed quite happy to live in the greenhouse instead. Would have to relocate him for the chicken hunt in order to bring the hens in there but I think some hardware cloth could make for a mini stock chute and channel the mouse migration to the hens house if they do remake their den in that bed.

I dont think the coop warms the greenhouse barbara, if anything maybe the other way around a bit since the greenhouse blocks the prevailing wind for the hens house.

The greenhouse is buried 3 or 4 feet deep in a hole with a storage room on the north side. This does seem to help in keeping it a little warmer in there. From the floor to the ceiling it is close to 10 feet where I have concrete reinforcing wire hanging for tomatoes. They were pressing on the ceiling before I trimmed them back this year. I am going to try and winter them over by piling straw around the base of them. If they live will see how they do next year and if they dont we are thinking about putting cucumbers there next year.

barbararose21101, "I think I've read about having chickens IN the greenhouse ?" That would work out for growing food for animals in the same greenhouse, and I certainly like the idea, but sadly and apparently the dander and dust created by chickens and rabbits makes growing human food unappealing. I'm bummed too. But for the sake of a video I could eat a tomato with a bit of feather and fur on it.

"some hardware cloth could make for a mini stock chute and channel the mouse migration" we could put tiny, little shirts with numbers on them and announce their entry into the arena. Half time meal worm (Tenebrio molitor) gecko bowl.

Apparently "if you're not paying attention and fail to see them in the cornmeal when you're making cornbread" it could be an issue.

Here's a 'Cut & Paste' of a post on this same subject, from last year.
The Care & Feeding of Rats or How to Attract Rats to Your Wormbin

Posted by shaul Israel (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 5, 13 at 12:53

Last month I bought a couple Coconuts. Upon opening one of them I found it to be rotten and so I thought 'here's a new food, let's see how the worms take to this'. I cut out 2 pieces and buried them in one of the bins. Well the worms didn't seem too excited at first so I left it for a couple days. when I checked back after a week, something was different, there were bits of thread and feathers and fluff (things I hadn't put there). It also looked like something had been burrowing in the bedding. On closer inspection I found that something had gnawed a neat hole (2" across) in the side of the bin. The worms seemed to be okay but the coconut was gone. I cleaned up the bin and patched the hole, then I went out and bought a large 'catch-em-alive' varmint trap (the kind with a hair trigger and the door slams shut), and I baited it with coconut. Two nights later I caught a large rat (I've caught three so far), which is pretty good seeing as how my bins are on my patio, three floors up. I decided to conduct a scientific experiment. Knowing that worms breathe through their skins and have the ability to live (for a period of time) underwater, I wished to see whether rats could do the same. So I found a container larger than the trap, set the trap inside and filled it with water. Though I've only had two subjects on which to perform this important experiment (the third appears to have died from indigestion (perhaps too much coconut)), the results are conclusive: Rats Cannot Breathe Underwater; giving credence to the maxim: 'Drowned Like a Rat'.

Moral of the story: Save the coconut for baiting the rodent traps and keep it out of the wormbin.

Shaul

P.S. A friend who spent some time in Hawaii relates that the Coconut growers there surround the tree trunks with sheets of tin to keep the rats from climbing the trees and gnawing at the fruit.

I always enjoy your posts Shaul. Keep 'em coming, or re-coming.

Have you eradicated your rats? I suspect cats deposit rat cocoons on your 3rd story patio.

I will send you all my rats, as waterboarding here is not allowed.

Good luck and happy wormin'

Pete

Can you post a picture of the live trap inside the water container ?
(I have a live trap. I'm not impressed with its design.
I don't have the Havahart brand.)

I've improved the rolling can over a bucket scheme. Haven't put it out yet. . .
might even try to enhance it with floating sunflower seeds on a paper ? styrofoam ? plate.

Will sweetened, grated coconut do ?
Or do I need a big chunk of fresh ?

As of Wednesday 12/17 the rodent is eating the bait and avoiding the bucket: that is, licking the ramp clean and not going for the can coated with peanut better.

Monday evening 1/5/15 I found what appears to be a roof rat in the (so called) live trap. The plate with a chunk of fresh coconut floating on a bed of sunflower seeds --- in a garbage can with water --- had been overturned.
There were pieces of coconut loose in the water but no rodent. The rodent apparently got out and checked into the live trap and died. If it was the same rat that swam in the can, it was probably tired. I had no intention of releasing it so tho I feel its pain, it saved me some (pain) by giving up. It had rained hard. So I don't know why, but the rat was soaked.

This post was edited by barbararose21101 on Wed, Jan 7, 15 at 11:09