A couple of things jump out at me. First, the entry from the garage is into a tight hallway with no closet, and if you have hooks on the wall and boots on the floor, there's little walking room and tripping hazards. The only room that takes advantage of the view is the sunroom. And the kitchen seems dark, and you don't have the pantry that you want.

Could the bedrooms move to the right side of the house in place of the tv room and LR, allowing the other spaces to go across the back of the house? This might allow you to create a garage entryway, and take better advantage of natural light for the living spaces. I'm thinking the kitchen on the far left. Can you have windows on the side walls on both sides of the house?

Sorry to post in my own thread but can't seem to edit the original post to change the plan files. Here are the plan files with black lines:

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The pantry will be underneath the stairs.

There is no "view" per se. The sunroom view is just a view of a normal sub-division back yard.

needs work. this kitchen located in the center of the house will get old fast....closed off, no natural light, etc. it can be a nice plan, but needs the walls/rooms to be rearranged some.

I'm not on the computer I can draw on, but if the two bedrooms are along the right side, with the ensuites between, Mom's can open onto the sunroom, making a suite. The sunroom could also open onto the Great room, which I'm imagining at the back of the house. The current kitchen and dining room could become the office/guest room and tv room. The stairs could be open on that side for a more open feel, and less of a tunnel feel.

How do you feel about a turn in the stairs? It could be used to define space downstairs.

@bpathome

I do not want a turn in the stairs because it significantly increases the cost of a stair lift installation. I was not able to put a large size master suite on the main level along with all the other rooms but want the house to be as "age in place" friendly as possible.

The hallway is 3'6" wide. I don't think I can afford to allot more space to the hall. There won't be any wall hooks or shoes, etc left there.

I am thinking how I can rearrange the rooms putting the Kitchen on the far left. I can't see it right now but maybe I will once I start drawing.

I will work on redrawing the plan to put the bedrooms on the right and the great room at the back to see what falls out. However, in my mind's eye, if I redesign as you have written the front door would be in the sleeping area and there would be a relatively long hallway to get to the common areas.

Windows on the side walls are problematic as neighbors would have a direct view into those windows. But it is possible to put windows there.

Any comments on the upper level?

@stblgt

Why would a kitchen in the center get old fast? I understand the natural lighting issue but something has to be at the center of the house. I also understand that the current liking is for open plans but I hate the noise transmission and being able to see straight through the house. Of course, my wife likes open plans so one of us is going to be less than fully satisfied in the end.

"one of us is going to be less than fully satisfied in the end"

Who spends more time at home? In the home?

And, who's relatives are the ones living on the first floor?

If the answer is the same for these questions, THAT is the person whose preferences get the greater weight in the discussion of open or walled plan.

I think you are going about your stair issue wrong. If the coupled couple is currently healthy, the next question is, how long are the mobility challenged adults likely to actually live here? (not to be morbid, but I think this is a real question).

Also, I think I'd consider/price a small home elevator solution to see if that works out better in your favor *should* you need a mobility option to the master before you might actually just move downstairs.

You may not be going for ADA compliance, but you're not going for moility impaired. This isn't a friendly plan at all for someone with issues. Ther isn't an accessible bathroom either upstairs or downstairs. The turns in the hall will make it difficult for people or furniture to get in or out of the bedrooms. The kitchen is just a dongeon. That would be the perfect space for a windowless TV room, not a kitchen.

It's a mass of inaccessible dark rooms with poor flow. You need an architect.

@kirkhall

I can't say who spends more time at home because it varies. I am not concerned about the open vs closed plan issue. We will reach a compromise that works for us.

I am not sure what you mean by I am going about the stair issue wrong. I have considered the remaining life time of those who currently have mobility issues. Regardless of the time they have left, I would like for them to have access to as much of the house as possible. I originally started with a ranch plan in mind but at the size I'd like to build it was beyond my budget. Therefore, the Master/Owner's area is moved upstairs since they are unlikely to use that area. I did consider a home elevator but the ones I researched were more costly than a stairlift. Not only was the installation cost of an elevator substantial but there is the on-going maintenance and inspection requirements/costs. If I have missed something please feel free to elaborate.

@Sophie Wheeler

I don't 'need' an architect. It might be nice to have an architect but it is not a need. If you have specific suggestions on how I can improve access to the bathrooms without increasing their size by more than 10% I'd be happy to read them. I would also be happy to read any suggestions you have for straightening/eliminating the hall or the mass of inaccessible dark rooms with poor flow. I have, afterall, come to this forum site to get suggestions on how to improve the plan.

@ALL

Maybe I am using a specialized term incorrectly. When I type mobility issues what I mean is that the party in question has one or more of the following: diminished depth perception affecting their ability to utilize stairs; diminished range of motion in legs including difficulty lifting their foot to riser height; decreased sense of balance while walking and a few other issues. Both persons can still walk; one prefers to use a walker; the other is strongly against using any assistive device. Therefore, I am not designing for use of a wheelchair, nor do I wish to design for use of a wheelchair. Just to make it clear - for this build access via a wheelchair is not a consideration. What is a consideration is making the house as accessible as reasonable [balanced against budget and space utilization] to people with the limitations previously stated.

I agree you don't "need" an architect. :) It's a nice to have, but I'm sure you'll put together something quite adequate. The upstairs master/loft is wonderful and provides some much needed privacy. I wonder if you couldn't use some of the master square footage to create an additional office space? There is a ton of space there that for a normal couple would go unused otherwise... and an office up there would be more tucked away from the downstairs ruckus. ;) But only if you can put in a window on the side.

Closet is wonderful!

The downstairs is basically one big square box. Which means the middle areas will be dark unless you have a very open floor plan. I like walls in my plans as well, but that kitchen will be so dark and sad to work in. :( Not the room I would choose to put in the middle because there is usually so much time spent there. I also love the sunroom, but I think you might want to consider sacrificing that or moving that in order to get better views/light into the kitchen where people will actually be working. Sunrooms are bonus rooms really, while kitchens are necessary rooms. If you are limited by budget that would be on the chopping block for me unfortunately. (And I love love sunrooms). Could you potentially move the bathrooms to the middle area maybe with a walk in pantry storage space there as well (in the current kitchen space/tucking the bedrooms into that corner/moving the laundry into the middle as well) ? And then move the kitchen to a window wall or swap with the sunroom and provide a peninsula type place for casual seating. It looks as if the little dinette area will be quite dark as well? Ideally the bathrooms have natural light of course, but having natural light in a kitchen I think is even more important. Just my opinion though... if the 2 cooks are fine with the central location than go with it!

If the sunroom is an absolute must - could you possibly replace the porch with the sunroom and move the kitchen to the sunroom spot now? So it would be a little smaller, but both rooms would have some light & maybe a small patio could be made down the road to extend the feel of the sunroom? Place for plants, etc.

I think it's wonderful you are planning with so many people in mind - it's such a hard thing to do and rarely can you make everyone happy.

My last thought: Are there truly no windows on the sides of the house? Is this because of shared walls? If there is any way to add windows into those spaces I think the end result will feel much larger overall.

"diminished range of motion in legs including difficulty lifting their foot to riser height; decreased sense of balance while walking and a few other issues. "

Then I would think you would want to design their showers to be curbless and have grab bars because they may soon not be able to lift their feet as high as they current can. The showers shown appear to be too small to be curbless.

How wide are the stairs? They appear to be on the narrow side and I am wondering if a stairlift will be in the way for the people who do not need to use it.

Do you live in an area where the garage can be at the same level as the main house? I think some places usually have a step or two from the garage into the house.

So, as promised, I developed a completely new plan based on some of the feedback that I received. But first:

@D.L.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I can place windows on the side walls as they are not shared. However, such windows will create direct sight-lines into the structure from the adjacent properties.

The Sunroom is not an absolute must but I'd prefer to keep it if at all possible. Even at the expense of giving up some other space.

Yes, the plan is a rectangle. Fewer corners, cut outs, bump outs, cut ins, angled walls, simpler roofline, etc. all translate into less cost and complexity in construction.

Now on to the new plan and my concerns with it:

Main Level:

1. There are too many water/plumbing walls. I count 6 with 2 of those being outside walls. Which would require extra care for the pipes in winter and if anything did require replacement might cause significant issues. [Outside all for Kitchen sink, interior wall for washer and laundry sink, inside wall for dryer exhaust, inside wall between back-to-back baths, outside wall office/hall bath, interior wall for sink office/hall bath]

2. Dining room has to be traversed to go from back of house to front of house [if staying inside] [The flow issue.]

3. Kitchen does not have enough cabinet space [especially uppers] due to the many passage ways and lack of wall space.

4. Kitchen will lose all upper cabinets if more than one window is placed.

NOTES:

1. Doors shown as pocket doors will be constructed as framed doorways with owner/occupant installing 'barn doors' after taking possession.

2. Stairs and hallway are 3'6" [42"]. No more width will be allocated for those items.

3. Stair lift will not be installed.

4. Showers for bedrooms will have minimal height curb and seating.

5. Grab bars will be installed as appropriate.

6. The Nook will become a safe room.

UPPER LEVEL:

Nook area may become 'His closet'.

Upper perimeter walls are positioned so they are aligned with walls on the main level. The only exceptions are the long nook wall, the short stairwell wall and the far left wall between the closet and the window wall.

Spinning your wheels. You can't DIY everthing in your life. There is no shame in going to a doctor rather than pulling up a zillion inaccurate diagnosis on WebMD. Hire a Professional to assist you with one of the largest and most difficult projects that you will ever do.

@ Sophie Wheeler

There is no shame in doing something for one's self even if it means acquiring additional knowledge, new skills and new abilities.

I have worked on and led projects that are much larger, more difficult, more expensive and higher risk than building a house.

I will hire professional assistance. There will be the Civil/Structural Engineer(s), the General Contractor, the "trades": Brick/Stone Mason(s), Electrician, Plumber, HVAC Designer, Roofer, Carpenter(s), Tiler, etc.; oh, and let's not forget the Lawyer and Real Estate Agent/Broker.

The layout of the house is my part of the work. Maybe I am mistaken but I thought that gardenWeb was geared toward those who wanted to do things themselves but needed to gain some additional knowledge. Maybe that has changed since the integration with Houzz. I am here because I plan on doing the layout myself. I am seeking specific advice on how to improve and/or change the floor plan based on a wide variety of constraints. Based on previous specific advice/opinion I developed a new layout. To that end, if you have specific suggestions with respect to changing/improving the floor plan within my constraints I'd be willing to read them.

This will be my last response to you unless you have specific suggestions on how to improve/modify the floor plan.

I think the kitchen/sunroom area towards the back is a huge improvement! What a great space for everyone to gather and eat casually. I hear what you are saying about the windows looking into the neighboring windows. :) Sometimes if you can stagger them you can still get some much needed indirect light without sacrificing too much privacy. Or use higher up windows (5' height and above) along those walls to give privacy but allow light in. The sunroom side wall could have 2 or 3 of these and make it even "sunnier!" It's always nice to have extra natural light for working on crafts and things. The pantry is great! Having a walk in pantry can replace a lot of upper cabinets. You could enlarge it if you are worried, or add a hutch in the sunroom area to put additional serving/dishes and make it a focal point. It's awfully nice to provide those walk in closets for the 2 downstairs rooms as well. Apart from the concerns you mentioned, the entry is a little less appealing - but many homes walk right into the family room and, if decorated nicely, can be great. Formal entries are popular, but they do eat up space.

As for the DIY element: I'm one of those crazy people that thinks you can learn just about anything given enough time and determination. And it can be a significant cost savings. If you are set on having the rectangle shape, I'm not sure your average designer/architect could come up with anything all that different for you. In my experience they are all about bump outs (which can be beautiful and add a lot of light into rooms) and not many have a good handle on the cost of things. We had a designer and needed one - we never could have come up with a plan that met code without his help in our crazy county. But the floor plan itself - I had that pretty much set and they couldn't improve on it much without adding significant square footage. They did help with things like sight lines and hallway arrangements and we were happy with the end result. If you study enough good plans, however, I think you might be able to tweak your own plan to get you "close enough." And... it can be super fun!!! I know there are some amazing architects that can work around these requirements - but they are rare and will cost more than your entire foundation/HVAC system & cabinets combined. ;) This is very much my own opinion and not widely shared on these (awesomely helpful) forums. For a dream home/unlimited budget I would hire an architect. For a budget home, in an "easy to build" part of the country (not California - that is a different animal)), I would not... Unless I personally knew someone with lots of successful experience working within my cost parameters and having the bids come in on target. A lot of folks have designed and built their own homes and are very happy with the result.

As for the flow issue: I think your home will flow differently than most, given the number of adult occupants. My only 2 big changes (which might not work for you) would be to carve a mudroom/drop zone out of the 3rd car garage and move the bedroom door that faces the kitchen/sunroom down a bit to give more privacy. We had a 3 car garage once where the 3rd bay was "shorter" but worked great for storage/workspace and the remaining space was turned into a wonderful craft room! I thought that was a good use of space but still gave lots of workroom in the garage. The drop zone could be used for walkers or jackets etc. (I'm thinking because you mentioned insulating the pipes that you are likely in a spot that gets fairly cold) and your sunroom wouldn't be as cluttered imo. But I am used to planning for lots of children in a home, so that kind of clutter might not be as important for you! :)

Oh... you may have already thought of this, but I think if you centered the "openings" to the square dining room it would be visually prettier. You could put some pretty plate racks along the side walls to store platters and dishes also! I wouldn't put anything too large on those walls though, or it will impede flow for sure. I never mind walking through a dining room to get to the rest of the house.... it's usually one of the nicer rooms! I think there could be a way to design the whole first floor off of a central hallway/small entry, if you want to try that approach instead?

For any kitchen design question, I suggest going over to the kitchens forum for excellent advice. Painful sometimes... but the advice is invaluable!

Regarding windows on the side and sight lines, we live in the city where houses are very close together, so when we added a bathroom upstairs that faced ALL of our neighbor's bedrooms, we used an obscured glass. It gives the "feel" of a window with a sheer covering, but without the bother of an actual covering. I'm such a proponent of natural light entering rooms from more than one side, we even have a high interior "window" in an inside wall over the TV, also a frosted glass so there are no sightlines from the staircase.

EandS,

I think you're getting somewhere with that last plan. Thinking about your situation, I might suggest having the "going up" of the stairs start at the other end. This way, if either person downstairs is in need of assistance in the middle of the night, you can run straight down the stairs to their rooms. It also helps to create very clear public/private spaces.

The view from the front door and path to move through the house needs some work (going around that dining table won't be fun). Wonder if you could shift your front door down to be more centered (maybe in line with the staircase)? The half bath might could be tucked under the stairs? Would give you an entry point for guests, and more layout options for the living space. You'd probably have space to add a coat closet as well.

You're right, lots and lots of bump outs in a plan will be much more expensive, 1 or 2 won't really change $ much, but just might make the plan really work. With that said, the dining room could bump a couple feet into the garage - so you could have a defined walkway from the living room to the kitchen, along that 'nook/laundry' room wall.

Try switching your fridge and pantry in the kitchen. You could use full height pantry cabinets instead of creating a "walk-in". And your fridge could be recessed, and still allow more cabinetry next to it.

Hard to tell, but you could probably have a larger island in the kitchen for more storage/work space as well.

What is your goal range for sq. ft?

@D.L.

Thanks for the advice.

I did add windows to the
left side of the house. I will do what can be done to stagger them from
the neighbor's windows. I will use obfuscating glass for the bathrooms,
but clear glass for Bedroom B.

I had thought about clerestory
windows, skylights and solar tubes for adding light but did not
incorporate any of those ideas. Now that you bring it up I will look at
where I can add clerestory windows. However, I have concerns regarding
leakage from and cleaning of skylights. And I have heard that solar tube
lighting can be harsh??

I am still thinking about how best
to address the kitchen storage issue. I will look into your suggestions
and play around with moving walls and the refrigerator. Maybe I am
focused on the wrong thing but I am used to seeing kitchens with upper
cabinets. I think it would look odd to have a kitchen that size with 9'
ceilings and no upper cabinets. Once I have the rooms in the right place
and about the right size I will post in the room specific forums to
nail down the details.

I was going to go a different route
with the drop zone and buy or build 4 cabinets that would line up
perpendicular to the garage door wall. That would provide a little
separation/definition of the Cafe and Sun room areas.

I would like
to have a formal entrance but I don't think there is enough space if
the doors are centered. That is why I pushed it to a corner. Later we
could add a half wall and a column or two [or whatever] to create a
small vestibule, if we felt like we just had to have a formal entrance.

With
respect to centering the dining room doors, I was trying to achieve
what @yellowducky is proposing without having to add more hall space. By
having the doors offset to the right and the table pushed left I was
hoping to create an implied aisle way. Obviously, I need to rethink it.

Finally,
I agree with you. If I had unlimited amounts of money to spend I would
hire an architect, and a Girl Friday, and a Body Guard, and a Personal
Trainer, etc. :)

@lori_inthenw_gw

Point taken.

@yellowducky

I
totally agree with you about the stairs. I originally had them
orientated that way but I was concerned about the head room at the top
of the stairs due to the slope of the roof. Also having them orientated
the way you suggest requires a hallway running from the end of the top
of the stairs back to the Master Bedroom wall. I will do the
calculations to see if there is enough headroom.

I will also work on the other items you point out.

My square footage goal is more than 3000 but less than 4100, excluding garage. Maximum of 3000 on the first level.

Is it possible to make the house a rectangle rather than a square? You mentioned set-backs, but I wasn't sure if that meant just the front and side set-backs. The reason I am suggesting a rectangle is because you would not have to worry about the dark rooms in the center of the house.

Also, I think on a house this size you need some type of entry way rather than having the front door just open right into the family room.

How would you feel about swapping the kitchen and sunroom? People wouldn't be walking through the kitchen all the time, it's out of view of the dining and living rooms, could have a high window on the side wall.

You mentioned solar tubes...had them in my last house and loved them. In an interior bathroom, and in the upstairs hall and above the stairwell, fabulous, not harsh. And the newer ones have shades so you can "close" them!

@dekeoboe
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I am up against a couple of constraint with respect to making the foot print more rectangular with the long sides being the sides of the house. First and foremost would be cost. The extra cost of the exterior finish materials and the extra cost of driveway and landscaping if I had to move the garage further to the rear. Another constraint is that I'd like to preserve as much of the back yard as I can. I would also like to preserve the interior room sizes and shapes. And finally, there is the coverage limitation for the lot.

I am working on some alternative layouts and shapes with ... gasp ... bump outs. I'll present something later that has a designated entry way/reception area.

@bpathome
I'd rather not have the kitchen in the left rear corner because then one would have to bring food through that cafe and the Sunroom to get to the Dining room. I thought about moving the Sunroom to where the kitchen is and sliding both the cafe and kitchen to the left. But then that puts the Pantry next to the Sunroom and still leaves no wall space for cabinets.

I am considering reducing the eating areas to just one but my Wife really wants to have 3 [cafe, bar, formal dining room] so it would be hard to go to just one.

I have never seen a solar tube in person. I have just read a few posts about them. I will see if I can find anyplace local that sells [and installs] them [in new construction].

I did see all those side windows you placed! So much better imo. If you could put some in the master nook I think that would drastically improve the usage of that space. I also have to second the vote for solar tubs for your interior rooms and darker spaces. I have had them in homes before, but not installed them… I hear they are much easier to install when you are building than after the fact.

I didn't realize how large this home was going to be… so funny how a plan will seem one way on paper and the square footage number puts a whole different spin on it. But I agree, a home in the 4000 sf range should have a formal entry if possible, even if a small one. Maybe you could lose a little space in the office/guest area to accommodate one?

Right now the plan is just over 3,000 conditioned square feet. I am working on trying to create a vestibule for the entrance and re-orienting the stair case. The head room at the top is a problem. It looks like it will require breaking the roof line with a dormer.

I know dormers can be an added cost, but it might also bring some great light into that upper hall also! Can you tell I'm crazy for light?!

As it stands, the master bath doesn't appear to have any windows. Any way to get a window in there either via a dormer or swapping with the closet? You could do solar tubes here I suppose, but a window in the master bath is something I'm always looking for…maybe it's a girl thing?

Do you have an idea of what the exterior will look like as the plan stands? I was thinking it was a 1 1/2 story with dormers or a break in the roof line already. Is the current plan one a single straight (but steeply) pitched gable? If so, that steep pitch might cost more than a lower pitch for two rooflines (1st floor and second floor). It really depends on location though and your builder/GC. But the roof pitch was a HUGE budget breaker in our build. So just a consideration as you are redesigning on paper...

@D.L.

Thank you for your great input.

The plan is conceived as a 1.5 story building. The rear wall of the Master bedroom breaks the roof line and is aligned with the rearmost wall on the main level. Thus creating a large dormer at the rear of the house. The remainder of the upper level is well inside the roof line. The only ways to place other windows would be to either to expand the square footage [and the builder has told me I can not do that and stay under budget] or to place dormers; which again presents budget issues. I have checked on solar tubes in my area. The preliminary findings indicate that none of the builders here have experience installing them.

My current plan is to have 8/12 all around for the roof slope, but I am hoping I might be able to get it down to 7/12. I haven't thought too much about two roof lines so I will reconsider. And I will check with the Architectural Control Committee.

If I switch the stairs' orientation there will be no choice but to place a dormer or increase the roof pitch. Or as you have pointed out, maybe I could go with two roof lines.

I don't know what the style is called but I have linked [can't attached as I don't own the copyright] to a picture of the type of facade we are considering. Although, I was thinking about using shed dormers rather than gable dormers. However, be warned that the exterior elevation has changed before, so it is not yet built in stone.