"...that has neutral colors that are not orange. Red, or white or soft yellow with a dark or a light center."

Are you eliminating "Red, or white or soft yellow with a dark or a light center" or saying those are colors that you would like?

I'm reading it as colors desired. I grew Moulin Rouge one year and it did well for me. Then it crossed with some Black Oil sunflowers and the saved seeds gave me things like this...

...or this

tj

Zenman, I have been looking at 'Strawberry Blonde' and I like the catalog photos, but when I've seen photos from real gardens, it hasn't looked as good, so I wondered if anyone had experience with that one. I was going to get 'Velvet Queen' until I saw photos of a bronzy orange color. The sunflowers are going into a bed that has pinks and I don't enjoy the oranges with the pinks. So the whites, soft yellows and reds could work fine but bronzy oranges aren't going to work for me. So yes, those are the colors I would like.

Tsugajunkie, those are very cute, but so surprising that is what a cross between 'Moulin Rouge' and Black Oil Sunflowers creates. Good to know what to expect when you have more than one variety in the garden.

For a lemon-y white shade, Italian White is very nice. It has rays that are mostly white, but with a lemon eye and very dark center. The blooms can be on the smallish side, if compared to some others, but the plants are bushy, multi-branched.

Well I don't know if there is a particular stand out for me. 2 years ago I grew 80 varieties while not fitting the bill the one I always have in the gardens is 'Teddy Bear'. 'Strawberry Blonde' was very nice in my garden BUT was for the most part a single stalk. One of the better ones, IMHO, for foliage is 'Kong'. 'Cutting Gold' was also a good branching sunflower....I guess I should have kept better notes LOL. I guess I always seem to grow 'Russian Mammoth' but it most certainly is a single stalk. Most of the better foliage and branching sunflowers, if my memory serves me correctly, where the mostly the varieties with smaller heads.

Good luck and would love to see pics

SCG

SCG - 80 varieties?! Wow. Who had time to keep notes. lol Teddy Bear, that's the double flower, that's cute. That's disappointing about Strawberry Blonde, I thought it was branching. Kong is HUGE! lol Does 'Cutting Gold' = 'Pro Cut Gold'? Which I thought was a single stem.

Samhain - thanks for the 'Italian White' suggestion. That is one that I was considering getting, the colors are great, but I think the blooms are too small for what I'm trying to do.

I'm coming to the conclusion, I'd be better off, to just try some and decide if I like them that way. I don't have a lot of room, but I might be able to try 3 varieties a year until I find something I like. It should be fun.

Thanks!

OK - here's another - Lemon Queen. The size is good; it's not white, but as you can see by the pic, it's very light. The other one I'm not sure what it is.

Yeah, I got a lot of seeds from another addict and had about 170 plants that year. Was kind of neat.

Don't quote me on the 'Strawberry Blonde' being a single for certain as my memory could be off a bit.

Kong is great, one of my favourites. I am going to grow it as a privacy screen this year. I live in the country and might get 20 cars go by a day on a busy summer day....way too many!!!

I don't know if 'Cutting' and 'Pro Cut' are the same....i just remember 'Cutting' branching and provide lots of cutting LOL.

SCG

Perhaps the best solution would be a perennial sunflower, like H. maximiliani or H. salicifolius. Unless you are pretty set on big leafy flowers at top annual types.

Samhain, Nice healthy looking foliage and I do like that light yellow Lemon Queen. Very pretty!

SCG - Hmmm….a privacy screen, huh? I’m going to have to give that some thought. Maybe I can find another place to grow that huge 'Kong' sunflower. It is unusual looking.

Dbarron - I was just looking at that Helianthus maximiliani the other day and I really like the look of it. My only problem, is that I just read the description on the catalog site, I was thinking of buying seed for it…..

“Maximilian Sunflower is very showy and towers above surrounding vegetation when in bloom. It is rhizomatous and may spread vigorously, and therefore may not be suitable for small landscape plantings. It is best suited for full sun in dry to mesic conditions.”

It’s the …’.rhizomatous and may spread vigorously’ that I’m not going to be able to do.

A very pretty plant too!

From my experiences (bear in mind I'm warmer than you and this was in a prairie setting), it's not scary. It spread as a clump, but also gently reseeded.

I wouldn't imagine it would be more vigorous in your cooler, wetter environment..but who knows.

Start the kong indoors in containers. Every time I do the growth is stunted and they keep to about 8'. I like them because of the number of heads they each produce throughout the year.

For what it's worth, I added Maximilian to a side garden last year that's going to be more prairie style because of the ditch lily infestation it already has.... and it grew quite quickly from a little itty bitty dormant rhizome (is that the right term?) that I received from Gurneys. I would not consider it invasive but it was vigorous and was covered in beautiful cheery yellow blooms very late in the fall. I made the mistake of not staking it and it was a mess, all bent over. This year I will stake it so it can stand up straight.

If you decide to try the kong sunflowers, let me know. I ordered seeds online & have more than I will ever need.

dbarron and Michaela - glad to hear that about maximilian sunflower. I've considered it in the past, but was leery myself about how much it would spread. Doesn't sound too hard to control.
Michaela - a big YES to staking even the regular annual sunflowers - at least for me on our windy hilltop!

Yeah, dbarron - that's what I get for living in lush, green Michigan. That, and the freaking 15 BELOW ZERO that it was this morning! LOL

Well that might explain it dbarron! We had so much rain last summer. I rarely ever watered anything because of how much rain we had. It would rain for 24 hours sometimes. It was great for my water bill though.

I have one perennial that I am forever struggling to get out of the garden and that experience has made me avoid potential problems with perennials. Especially anything that is rhizomatous and spreads vigorously. Give me a clumper any day. Even a reseeder.

SCG - thanks for that idea for reducing the height of ‘Kong’. Eight feet would be better than 16 feet. [g]

Michaela - such a nice offer, thanks very much. I’m still on the fence about which sunflowers, but I’ll check back with you, if I add ‘Kong’ to my list.

Samhain - Our garden is clay and not always easy to grow something that likes lean and mean either. I thought we were bad with our winter weather this year, but 15 below has us beat. Spring will be here before we know it. :-)

You're very welcome. I am also taking SCG's advice and am starting some inside now in the biodegradable pots. I wouldn't mind 8 feet instead!

You are well aware that your experience is probably going to be much different than mine and you will end up with 26 foot sunflowers? LOL

Start them in small pots and pot up a few times to really stunt them.

I can't wait to hear how they turn out for you.

SCG

As funny as 26 ft sunflowers sound to me, it would seem that direct sown really makes a big difference. Makes you wonder what kind of an effect transplanting veggies into the garden has. Would our tomatoes be four feet taller and wider, if we were able to direct sow? :-)

For me, it seems only some plants don't like to be transplanted and some actually do better. It is my opinion that sunflowers don't like to be transplanted because of the tap root. In the early stages it is often many, many times deeper than the plant is tall. I have found that at any time that the tap root is impeded in growing down it is to the determent of the plant. Lots of times (in my case) soil structure (extreme hardpan) can even impede root growth.

I tried starting a sunflower in a 5 gal nursery pot and by the time I went to transplant it was already 12" tall and the taproot was already starting to coil on the bottom!

Last year I tried digging up the tap root from a 10 foot 'Russian Mammoth' that was grown in an area of my garden that was completely loamy sand. I was down 40 inches, the root was still around 3/16 inch in diameter when darkness fell. I woke up to a rain storm and my hole had sloughed in so I gave up. Sunflowers grown in areas where 18-20 inches of topsoil where put over the hard pan do not get as big as the ones in the sandy area. The only exception was a couple planted in the hard pan that were put beside posts that had been recently dug in, loose soil.

Good luck with them

SCG

40 inches?? That is crazy SCG!

Yes, I thought so as well....I had read 36" but had no idea. I will do it again this year as curiosity has me. I know I often pull sunflowers up that have tap roots a foot long and were thick as carrots where they broke (read cut with shovel) off.

SCG

Finally ordered my Sunflower seeds. I bought 'Strawberry Blonde', 'Moulin Rouge' and 'Buttercream' from Johnny's Seeds. I also found Scarlet Runner Bean. Just waiting for bare ground and warmer weather. Can't wait!

Good luck with them. Here's couple of things I found work well for me...

About a week before I plant I wet the area with 10% ammonia and water to kill and dissuade slugs and I also sprinkle the area with dried blood to keep rabbits away. I find these two critters are the most destructive to young seedlings.

tj

Oh….good to know Tsugajunkie. I don't usually have slugs and rabbits so far have not shown any interest in anything other than the clover in the lawn, but I bet that bloodmeal would do the trick. Thanks for those two tips!