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tfaithw

Damping Off Issues

11 years ago

On Saturday I noticed the telltale signs of damping off when both of my plug trays of marigolds started to keel over, and my chopped-up speedling trays of tomatoes soon followed suit. I lost all of my tomato and pepper seedlings to damping off in 2012 and determined that it was because we'd just moved into our new house, the seedlings were under lights in a spare room in the basement, and I wasn't near as diligent about turning on the oscillating fan as I should have been. Disinfected, replanted, left the fan on 24 hours after that, and didn't have further problems. All of my research at that time made me more aware of how much I was watering too. I didn't have any problems last year, ran the fan pretty much all the time, threw some vermicompost in with my homemade soil-less seed starting mix, bottom-watered, and life was good.

Now I have an awesome straw bale greenhouse that my husband slaved over for me last fall. The marigolds were planted at the basement work bench and went straight to the greenhouse. The tomatoes were sprouted indoors and spent the first week or so there under the lights, and then moved out to the greenhouse to free up more space. Both were planted about three weeks ago, give or take. Because they were both in the greenhouse, I assumed that was where the issue was, especially since I started seeing some damping off symptoms in a couple of pepper plants, mainly just at the end of two of the three trays, which had all been started in early March and moved out to the greenhouse pretty early on. Initially I was chocking up this latest round of damping off to the learning curve that goes with being new to using a greenhouse, especially one that's as unique as mine is. I have an oscillating fan on in there 24/7 so I know that ventilation isn't the issue, although I do wish the fan actually had a lower setting. The breeze on the tomatoes wasn't quite as gentle as I'd have liked and I might have noticed the damping off a tad sooner had they been blowing around a bit less. However, I probably HAVE been guilty of overwatering, we don't have shade cloth on the greenhouse just yet (happening later this week) and I've been worried that with this overly warm spring weather we've been having, the plants will start to cook when I can't be home all the time to monitor how wet/dry they are. Plus my plants may be more stressed due to the temperature swings when it's in the mid-80's (or higher) in the greenhouse during the day and then may gradually drop into the low-50's at night. I also haven't been bottom-watering all of the Speedling trays either - one of the pepper trays is a full tray and won't fit into any of the wrapping paper tubs I have, and once I realized how much faster it was to use my big 2 gallon garden sprayer (aimed at the soil, not misted over the seedling), I started using that to water all of the peppers/tomatoes. I've also been starting quite a few more plants this year (all of the geraniums and bedding plants for my yard) , so I haven't been using any vermicompost in the mix. I replanted the tomatoes and marigolds on Saturday and went about misting the peppers and all my various other seedlings with chamomile tea and threw some cinnamon on for good measure, as well as the seedlings still under the lights in the basement.

By Saturday evening I was starting see casualties under the lights as well. So long celosia, parsley, dill and ageratum...My chamomile/cinnamon was probably too late and at that point, I realized the problem was indoors as well, and had an oh-crap-moment because I probably should have cleaned/disinfected my workbench BEFORE I replanted the tomatoes and marigolds. By Sunday, the gomphrena was starting to look shriveled at the base too and I decided to toss out most of the other youngest seedlings, but kept the statice and mint, since they still looked good. I made a garlic soil drench for the peppers and also doused a bunch of other seedlings, just in case. I spent a lot of time cleaning my seed starting room, bleaching all the trays, and mixing up new seed starting medium (and even raided the worm bin so I could add some vermicompost) but it got too late to actually replant and I headed to bed. I've been tossing and turning since 3am when after dreaming of floppy celosia, I was jolted wide awake by the thought that all of the seedlings that had the most damping off issues were planted in the 3/16-3/21 range. Now I'm worrying that my seed starting mix has been contaminated, and that the peppers have become victims due to their proximity to the tomatoes, hence only losing a couple plants so far as opposed to the whole trays. I've also still got nasturtiums in the greenhouse that were planted in the same time frame, but so far aren't showing any signs of distress.


I've been a sloppy seed-starter this year. I've basically just been brushing the dried mix off the bench and moving onto the next round of planting. I've also been using the same bale of peat for the past couple years. It's beyond dried out so I use a chisel to get it off the block, crumble it up, mix it with vermiculite and perlite, and then add near-boiling water to rehydrate it. I'm near the end of the peat, which as been sitting open on the garage floor forever, and for the past couple weeks have now been rotating the block and scraping the bottom of the bag, so I guess it's possible that the bottom of the block could have been contaminated and now that's what's winding up in the mix. (It's worth noting that I started some tomatoes, peppers and basil under the lights when we got back from vacation in early January with the intention of putting them in containers in the greenhouse, and never had any issues with any of those plants).

I was busy thinking my dirty bench was the issue when I started rehydrating two more buckets of mix yesterday morning, didn't even think to sanitize my buckets...which technically wouldn't help anyway if the mix itself is the problem. I'm guessing that one way or another, the odds are good that the newest planting of marigolds and tomatoes could keel over in a couple weeks, and then I'd be six weeks behind, instead of only three. I use the tomatoes and peppers (companion planted with the marigolds - it's pretty if nothing else) in dehydrated backpacking meals that I sell at my local farmer's market, as well as flower bouquets. I can't afford to have an empty garden. Seems like my best is to toss out the newest seed-starting mix (what a waste of vermicompost), go buy a new bale of peat, and then replant the tomatoes and marigolds for a THIRD time (made worse by the fact that now I'm out of seeds for a couple of my tomato varieties....), plus all the other flowers/herbs that were discarded yesterday.


Here's the question/problem...I really do have a point haha, I'm not just here to whine. In the last couple weeks, I've potted up a variety of plants (leftovers from the January tomatoes/peppers, coleus, etc) using that same maybe-contaminated peat on that same maybe-contaminated bench. I'm not really worried about those plants themselves, because they should be old enough to be spared...but if I go through all this hassle of replanting the tomatoes, marigolds and rest of my accent flowers yet again (not to mention the first round of zinnia planting slotted for next week), am I going to have to worry that those plants that do have the bad mix out in the greenhouse will infect my new plantings? Do I wait for them to dry out and then drench them with garlic or chamomile? I've tried to research online, and it looks like damping off can be spread in pretty much every way possible. Do I just use new mix, replant my seeds, be super vigilant about only watering when necessary, and do so with weak chamomile tea so that being in proximity to a possibly infected plant won't matter? My anxiety level over this is through the roof.



Comments (10)

  • 11 years ago

    Ok, I'm having trouble sorting all this out so bear with me if I'm off track.

    The fungus spores that can develop into damp-off is in the air all around us all the time. Damp-off can develop at any time IF it is given the right triggering conditions - those we control. Those conditions are excess moisture be it watering or humidity, lack of sufficient AND consistent air circulation, and exposure to overly warm ambient air temps. Eliminate those conditions and while the spores remain they cannot attach and the disease cannot develop.

    Starting seeds indoors is an artificial environment so the grower must control that environment as much as possible. Reduce the humidity if needed, multiply the constant air circulation as much as possible, and above all do NOT over-water - the number one contributing factor.

    No one ever thinks they are over-watering yet they always are. They cut back a bit and think that is enough reduction. It isn't. Cut your watering by at least half in both amount and frequency for starters. The plants will survive. They tolerate too little watering 10x better than they will over-watering. Learn to read the leaf turgor, the leaf tension, not the soil condition and use it as an indicator for watering. And invariably the damp-off disappears.

    Eliminating damp-off does not require sterile conditions. Sterile soil-less potting mix is great - to begin with but it doesn't remain that way once in use. And it doesn't spread. It isn't a contagious disease. It is unique to each plant's conditions and it those conditions that need to be changed.

    Hope this helps.

    Dave

    tfaithw thanked digdirt2
  • 11 years ago

    Thanks, Dave.

    Sorry, if I gave too much background! Granted, the web is full of misinformation, but mostly I see it listed as a soilborne fungus and I keep coming across info that shows it can spread, hence my extreme paranoia. I'd like to believe my local extension off is credible anyway :) Some of the other extension offices don't mention it spreading, but are quite adamant about uncontaminated potting mix.

    http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/PLP-021.pdf

    That said, I'm sure you're right about the over-watering. It probably hasn't helped that with this last round of seeds I switched to a bigger plug cell. I've always used the 72-count ones in the past (I could fit more of them under the lights), but bought a bunch of deeper, 50-count ones because I was worrying that the others would dry out too fast in the greenhouse and cook my plants. I think I will dump the two buckets of potting mix that I'd already prepared and buy a new bale of peat, if only for my own peace of mind. I'll plant another round of tomatoes and make do with the seeds I have on hand, just in case, but I won't toss the tomatoes that I already replanted, and will focus on not over watering them...or any of the other plants for that matter!

    Knowing that my plants are going to start off under the lights, would you recommend switching back to my smaller 72-count cells, or should my 50-counts work equally well as long as I go more by the weight and not soil appearance to judge dryness? I was using my finger tip to scratch down in the soil a bit, but these cells are probably deep enough that that wouldn't have been a good guide. Maybe I should just use the 72's anyway, I don't really have to worry about them getting rootbound before it's warm enough to plant out...

    I really appreciate the help! :)





  • 11 years ago

    Thanks again, Dave. I think I was understanding that contaminated mix meant I had active spores in the mix, and that even if I was diligent about good air circulation and not over-watering, that I still had a good chance of developing damping off. This is what happens when your hard work up and dies and you become overly paranoid and start reading everything you can find...I totally feel like a gardening hypochondriac now! Knowing that the spores are inactive unless I set the right conditions is apparently what I was missing, and makes me feel infinitely better...to the point that I'm actually shedding a tear or two of relief. Its been a rough couple days. At least my seed baby room is nice and clean now!

    One final question since you mentioned pH balanced soil-less medium, and I happened to come across something about watering with a little vinegar in my various paranoia-induced browsings...We have semi-hard water where I live, so the bit about a little vinegar in the water caught my attention. In past years I've always just used equal parts peat, vermiculite and perlite and called it good. This season I was adding a little more peat...2 1/2 scoops peat to 1 1/2 each vermiculite and perlite. Should I be adding lime or doing something to better balance my pH? I've also seen some recipes that call for greensand, which I happen to have some of. What do you consider to be the ideal seed starting mix, and do you use the same mix when you transplant to the larger seed packs? Sorry, that was more than one question...

    Thank you so much for your time and expertise! I've been lurking in this forum since I started prepping for my dehydrated backpacking meal business in 2011 and have always found your responses to people's questions to be really helpful.

  • 11 years ago

    I did not have the time to read your lengthy narrative, but you did mention a problem with damping off. I started off gardening about ten years ago and have not experienced it since my first year when I got this advice: bottom water your seedlings with a very weak chamomile tea solution. Do not water until the surface of the soil appears dry. Most of us use sterile soilless mixes, but as digdirt said, it remains sterile only until the bag is opened. I hope you find this helpful.


    tfaithw thanked northerner_on
  • 11 years ago

    Thank you, northerner_on. Yes, I do have a tendency to be long-winded haha. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I could have been infinitely more concise, but I was worrying about how the damping off seemed to be spreading first in my greenhouse, but then under the grow lights and was trying to determine why, and the extent of the problem. Good to know about the chamomile tea though :)

  • 11 years ago

    tfaithw - Dave grows massive numbers of plants professionally , I only grow a few in my amateurish way. But I have never in decades of gardening had damping off issues. I don't even scrub out my pots as the books say I should. Nothing outside a lab is sterile - we are surrounded by bacteria and fungus spores. But they only get going if the conditions are right. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a mushroom ;-) (i.e. fungus) You want warmth and moisture. Seedlings do too but not as much as a mushroom. Just cut back on the watering and all will be well.

    tfaithw thanked floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
  • 11 years ago

    Thanks for the reassurance floral_uk. I've cut wayyyyyy back on watering, to the point that I keep waiting for my peppers to keel over because the trays sure feel light but most look okay. It's also overly warm in the greenhouse today and my husband can't help me get the shade cloth up until tomorrow. Unfortunately, one more of the peppers looks like it's flopping over at the base of the stem, so I don't think I'm done with the damping off yet. Makes me worry how many of my other healthy looking seedlings are going to drop dead, even with the watering issues having been dealt with.

  • 11 years ago

    My two cents : ditch the peat/vermicompost/perilite/vermiculite combo that you make. I have a feeling the ratio you are using is holding too much water or not letting water flow consistently through the mix (your vermicompost can do that). Pick up some Sungro, Promix, Fafards, or some other soilless mix. Have a soft touch with watering, let your fans blow around a bit ( I run mine at night when the lights are off), and don't worry about using chamomile, vinegar, or other 'stuff'. R-E-L-A-X, as Aaron Rodgers would say :)

    tfaithw thanked naturemitch
  • 11 years ago

    Thanks Mitch :) I haven't been using any vermicompost and the water seems to drain plenty well through my equal parts peat/perlite/vermiculite mix. I had been adding a bit more peat this season and went back to the old ratio after all the issues. Fans are on 24/7 and I'm letting everything dry out way more than I think I should haha, but so far so good. (I've been home most days lately so I can water midday if needed). I've also replanted most of what I lost into smaller cells that dry out faster anyway, just since the seedlings won't need as much room now that they'll be late going into the garden anyway. I am guilty of using chamomile, but that may just be helping my paranoia more than anything else, and I can live with that ;)