I totally forgot that I posted this thread. Life got a little busy. I did do up a plan on a free version of smart draw, then it expired so that was a waste of time. Luckily I did write down the majority of measurements with pen and paper. Here's a few pictures of the first space. Well first two spaces really. The 3rd space, not pictured will be veggie garden for a few more years and we have an area that is a little micro climate (much cooler) that I may do something with later on as well. The first space faces south. We have underground power lines that run to the house. There is a pole set back from the road about 20 feet. The main lines run on the opposite side of the road.

Showing power pole. The property line runs all the way past those trees in the far left of the photo. Where the mowed portion ends there is a deep slope. I'd like to turn that itnto a permaculture garden for the goats. I want to hopefully next year have the entire front of the property fenced. I'd do the fencing on the house side of the pole then in front of the fence I'd like to do shrubs. That wouldn't obstruct the hydro lines but would still help with snow drifting which we get a lot of.

Near the pole is a lilac, elderberry and something else that I can't even remember. Those will all likely stay. Those two large coniferous trees will likely stay until I can plant up in front of them more as they do help a little with snow. Eventually I'd like to remove them though.

Left side, right before the slope starts. I want to keep the birch, but other tree will eventually come down. It's in an odd spot to begin with. Rather than mulch because it's a huge space and I can't afford to mulch that much. I was thinking maybe comfrey, which I know is invasive but I do have livestock. The garden boarders that are currently in place will stay

Down the slope, lots of pines. We'll remove some and I want to do a lot more shrubs. We'd rotate goats in and out so they don't kill everything off but can browse.

It's a big space and a bit daunting. That's why it was easy to put it off when other things had to be done. I do have plants and trees that still need to get in the ground. Luckily it hasn't been too hot. You'd think it was based on the look of the grass, but that was because my son decided to cut it super short. I live on an glacial deposit so we have very good drainage here. It's not super fertile land though, but plants and trees do fine for the most part.

where are you located ? how cold does it get ?

to me, comfrey is not very invasive, though, i never let mine go to seed. they dont spread much though. .. it is an excellent chop-drop.

i would plant a lot of N fixers. large and small... birdsfoot, clover, goumi, legumes, mimosa...

i am buying some gumachill seeds... looks promising...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121665818977

i heard goats like Sunn Hemp.. good cover crop too...

heres info for your goats.

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extension/animal/meatgoat/MGFrgnds.htm

My favorite permaculture gardens have fruit trees and flowers. The rest of the rambling plants are just a nice background for the big flowering and fruiting bushes and trees.

Just a small point: I know everyone says "turn the sod upside down," and it must work sometimes, but I did it and it came back. I'd just compost it instead if I were doing it again. Can't help with the design - sorry. I'm struggling, too.

:-)

Zone 4 gardener here from MN. I extended my vegetable garden this spring by building 4X8 foot beds with 8 inch boards and terraced in over my existing lawn. I put down a layer of cardboard directly over the grass, forked some holes in it for root migration, watered it down, filled with well composted leaves/grass, and planted tomatoes, sunflowers, sweet corn, cabbages, zucchini, flowers and kohlrabi. All are growing tremendously with great production. Not a blade of grass has come through.

Well, it does seem like a huge space. I guess my advice would be to start with trees you know you want, being they take the longest to mature. You could have various "guilds" and then gradually work to connect them and make pathways. Do you have any equipment, such as a tractor? Without help like that, I would be careful about how much you can manage. Also, how much food will you want to harvest and preserve? The lady who used to mow my lawn retired, so I was in the market for a lawn tractor. I went with a Ryobi, which is electric and I love it. I have no guilt about mowing my lawn because of this, and the green softness is relaxing to my eye. I have seating areas around the property, where I really do enjoy the grass. If you just don't want lawn in areas, you could always plant wildflowers which would act as food food for pollinators / insects and wildlife.

I have an acre where I live, and decided last winter to create a permaculture garden in my front yard which borders on a highway. There is a sidewalk, which creates a natural boundary, and the length is about 120'. I made the edge that is not the sidewalk side curve, so at its narrowest, in the center, I would say it's 5' and at its deepest, it's probably 30'. That was plenty for me to start with! I rented a sod cutter and moved the grass out back to compost. I didn't have access to wood chips, so I paid to have 8 cubic yards of mulch brought in and that wasn't enough, but it was all that the delivery dump truck could hold. Within that space, I have 2 persimmons, 3 apples, a cherry, 3 paw paws, a Stewartia (I had planted it a few years ago before I knew of permaculture) an Autumn Brilliance Serviceberry, 4 dwarf varieties of mulberry, 20 Regent serviceberries (5x5') that will grow into a hedge next to the sidewalk, 50 asparagus behind those, 2 goumi, aronia, many currants, gooseberries, jostaberries, a rhubarb, 4 honeyberries, a medlar tree and a lingonberry and 50 strawberries that will be used as the groundcover layer. In the corner by the driveway, I've have a triangle space dedicated to herbs. All of that, and some perennial flowers and I still have some room. My point in telling you all of that is that my 120' bed is tiny next to all you want to do, but it consumed all of my time. I don't want you to be overwhelmed and then get discouraged.

Elsewhere on the property, I just planted 4 hazelnuts, a quince tree, 3 more paw paws and 2 elderberries and 2 persimmons, but they were added as extensions to existing beds. I had planted previously a peach and cherry tree, two pears, two kiwi on a pergola, concord grapes on a chain link fence around the pool, 50 high bush blueberries and three apple trees original to this 1850's farmhouse. I also have a vegetable garden and many perennial beds.

Not everything has to be done in one fell swoop, and be deliberate about why you're planting something where you're planting it. For example, my hedge of serviceberries were put by the sidewalk to act as a barrier to blowing leaves, to add some privacy, to help with traffic noise and dirt from the street, as well as to add snacks for people walking by and to feed the birds. The persimmons in the back are to offer some shade to the pool while adding fall color. (I had to have a 6' diameter red maple cut down which had provided so much lovely shade.) The fruit will drop a month after the pool will be closed...same with the paw paws on the north side of the pool. The persimmons in the front are to help block my neighbor's oak leaves from blowing over here and becoming my problem...I guess I'm saying to plant with intention. I tried to make it so that I would have fresh fruit across months. I will start with honeyberries, asparagus, and rhubarb in May (?) and end with persimmons, quince, medlars and paw paws in November and December. My 50 blueberries actually can cause me stress when they are loaded and I can't get friends to come over and pick because I don't like to see things go to waste, and they are labor-intensive to pick. I've learned from that, and that is why I limited myself on the quantity of each plant. There will still be enough to share with friends, the neighbors and the food shelf, but I won't have to spend every last minute harvesting and preserving. Although I have six paw paws, they won't be ready until October, when most of the garden chores are completed and I will have time. Whew, I hope some of these ideas help some of you.