Need help understanding grape training

11 years ago

So I ordered 2 varieties of grape for this spring; they'll be arriving soon(Beta and Valiant). I plan to plant more later on. My plan is to have them growing on a trellis going north-south. I've been trying to read up on grape training methods, but I am getting to be quite overwhelmed with what method I should choose! Also, so much of the info seems to be for warmer climates. I'm also reading info that seems conflicting..maybe I'm just misunderstanding? I tried to look up the pictures intotheark had posted quite awhile ago on his/her site about pruning, but the site isn't there anymore.

So..

- should you have 2 trunks in zone 2b? In case one dies?

- Is it better to have low cordons, or high? And how low, is low, and how high is high? If I'm understanding correctly, low cordons may cause the grapes to freeze when they are ripening. But high cordons would make it difficult to lay down overwinter right?

- Are the Beta and Valiant the 'trailing' type varieties...so I would have to use a high cordon? How high should it be?

- How far apart should I plant my vines? In vineyards they seem to be quite close together, and I would guess that vines don't get that huge in our zones, especially if they are pruned quite a bit for fruit.

- Is it alright to have wire as the support? Or should I use wood?

- How do you lie the vines down for winter? Don't the trunks get to be very woody and inflexible?

Thank you for your patience!

Featured Answer

sim sim

11 years ago

last modified: 11 years ago

i also shoveled snow over the grapes,

as sometimes the snow would settle in front of the trellis instead of on the plants

if you can keep the roots alive, then grapes can die-back right to the ground,

and will come back true

if you have any arbors you would like grape vines covering,

then valiants trained over them works really well

if you are looking to safeguard some prize roses over the winter from voles,

try cayenne pepper powder sprinkled around the trunks late fall/early winter

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Comments (7)

User
11 years ago
Hello fellow zone 2'er

first off, I know valiant survives in my zone 2 without any winter cover or taking it off the trellis, that said I do take my valiant down prune it and cover it just to because we are in a bit of an open windy spot and that Sask winter wind at -30C can freeze dry most anything.

They do get huge, my mother in law's Valiant is growing up the side of her house, has reached the eaves and she never takes it down, prunes it or babies it in any way and her grape harvest is monumental.

Plant your grape at a 45 degree angle to the direction you wish to lay it down, that way the thick inflexible trunk does not need to be bent and the vines lay down nicely.

I have mine on a two wire system, one at 3' and 5'. I used to have a latice trellis but trying to unweave the vines in the fall to lay it down is certainly a pain. A wire system is much easier, I thread the wire thru eye screws and wind it around the two end ones that I can screw tighter if the wire loosens.

Hope this helps
Konrad..just outside of Edmonton Alberta
11 years ago
It depends where you plant it, got one at the house and going up a wall,..doing fine without taking down, when I trained it with about 3 leaders and summer pruning we had lots of grapes,..but wife was against my pruning, [it's her plant]...well then I left it alone, last year it
was a jungle and not a single cluster of grape.
The one's I'm growing out on the farm in the open, I try to let 2 leaders growing, one to the right, one to the left about 4 inches off the ground, hung up with strings onto rebar, letting down for winter, works good. I've heard wire is not so good with our cool night temp.
K..
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sim sim
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
hello weeper,
i hope all is well
unfortunately we sold our place and along with it the website

but i do have a link to the archived site on the wayback machine

(most of the info was archived):
ark gardens archived link

the grape training page was not fully archived, the text survived, but not the pics

below is a link to my new website,

just click on the 'Growing Info' button for some pdf downloads on grapes and other assorted goodies:

Enoch 5:1

i ended up training the valiants as cordons and the betas, kay grays, eonas, prairie stars, and blue bells as guyots

we were a zone 2b in the country, where our grape vines were not grown against the house

they were grown on trellisses to the north but not full protection from the winter winds

take care

happy gardening
weeper_11
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you all for your help! That was exactly the kind of info I wanted.

The grapes will be planted in quite an open location, with decent snow cover but exposure to lots of wind(good ol' Saskatchewan!)..so I imagine I may have to lay the plants down in winter. I think I'll have to skip covering them, though; we get soooo many voles/mice etc., that any mulch will attract them. In my experience with roses, at least, I often lose less if I don't cover and rely on snow cover, than if I do cover, and the rodents take up shop with my plants!

Thank you very much for those links, sim sim, I love looking at all your work, everything is so neat and tidy!
peeniwali
11 years ago
Weeper:

Like you I found a lot of conflicting information out there. I eventually stumbled across Prof. Tom Zabadal's youtube chanel. In a nutshell, he has taken a lot of his lectures aimed at commerical growers and posted them online. There is a lot of info, far more than most will want but better too much than too little. It is all based on a long career of field work in viniculture dating back to the early 70's and is very practical vs pure academia. All trainign methods are covered from the most common to obscure with pro's and con's for each system. Some 34 videos in all and still adding regularly. Guyot can be found here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO_zyG5BGTg but if considering that you may want to look at umbtrella kniffen which should be more productive. He will also explain why. Trying to push the zone? in that case perhaps fan training is for you. Some of the later videos on pruning for winter injury are helpful in assuring that the training method and style of pruning do not promote winter die back.

All in all I found a lot of info made available thru this channel. Its a bit like taking a course but you can skip thru the sections that are not applicable to what you want to do or learn. 34 videos and counting all posted here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ7llYhkcOS5eBIS9nMy4LA .

Cheers,

Dave
weeper_11
Original Author
11 years ago
I will check those out, Dave, thanks!