Thanks for your thorough answer! You talked about choosing topsoil... Would it be okay to add sandy loam (mainly sand and may have some rocks) underneath and then 2 inches of expensive top soil on top? And I'm confused because I've heard a number of people say that sandy loam is the best for grass. But, I also read someone say that it requires more fertilizer and water, which makes sense to me. The one I would be getting doesn't even have much clay - just coarse sand, basically. So, even if I did have a couple of inches of expensive dirt on top it seems like when the roots hit that sand, it would not be healthy. This would be the only way I could afford to get the 5 or 6 inches of height. Any input appreciated!

"Expensive topsoil" sounds a bit like an oxymoron to me!! LOL!

Seriously, bulk soil providers will label their stuff as they see fit. Really the only way you know what you are getting is to see it in person and judge its quality. Or trust your contractor to do so :-) In soil speak, sandy loam is usually a preferred mix, typically with equal parts of the three soil types - sand, silt and clay. And with a reasonable proportion of organic matter. But what I (and most others) consider sandy loam may not be the same as what your soil supplier does. Sandy loam should not be mainly sand.

And you want to avoid layering different soil types on top of each other. Without getting overly technical, that can create what is known as interface issues, which affects how water moves through the soil profile. That's why if you are preparing a seed bed for a new lawn, you should incorporate any added soil into the existing soil with a light tilling. It's a bit less of a concern in planting beds as the act of digging and planting usually provides sufficient incorporation.

Regardless of what they may be calling it, the soil you want to add should be light and fluffy with minimal rocks and adequate organic matter (usually compost). It can look slightly woody or barky (from the compost) and that's fine - that helps both with good drainage and moisture retention. And the soil should look rich and dark in color and with no obvious aroma other than an 'earthy' smell.

Too often, folks redoing or putting in new landscapes will skimp on the soil in favor of putting their money into the plants or other features. I think that is a huge mistake. The soil is the foundation of any garden and has an enormous bearing on how well your garden does and looks over time. Spend the money upfront on the best soil you can get for your purposes. You won't regret it.

Curious, what is your opinion about adding peat moss for yards? My yardman used to work for a popular nursery in town and has put in hundreds of yards and says he loves peat moss. He made me a good offer on dirt that he swears is really good. He will be adding peat moss and manure. Does this work as well as bark? In broken English he indicated that dirt has to have the right "feel" and I'm keeping my fingers crossed he knows what he's doing and it will have enough sand. Thanks for warning about mixing the different soils, He volunteered that he's going to till it all in together with the dirt in my yard.

I don't particularly favor peat moss but it has its uses. I would be more inclined to use it if you were planting a lot of acid loving plants (like rhodies, azaleas, camellias, blueberries, etc.) but as a portion of a general purpose soil mix, its not particularly useful. It is pretty much a no-go as far as organic matter is concerned - it is virtually completely decomposed already so has no value to the soil biology, it is devoid of any nutrient value and is milled so that its particle size is very small, therefore offering little textural value. It does have moisture holding capacity unless it is allowed to dry out, at which point it starts to repel water. And its expensive.

The manure is okay as long as it has been well aged. But I would prefer to see a mixed product (like yard waste) compost in place of the peat moss. This would eliminate the unnecessary acidity contributed by the peat (compost is pretty much pH neutral), has a much better textural quality, will encourage a rich and varied soil biology and is nutrient rich. And has just as good moisture holding ability as the peat does but without the hydrophobic tendencies.

Thanks for your opinion on peat moss! I didn't know anything about it. I wonder why he likes it so much? I read you should use 2/3 topsoil and 1/3 compost. Do you agree with that ratio? Also, I've heard worm castings and mycorrhize is some of the best. Do you agree?

The biggest problem I face today is I just found out that they're only delivering 2 inches (8 cubic yards) instead of 6 inches. I think they were going by how much dirt I currently have with all the tilling. It looks like 4 inches now. So, I guess my question is.... how much will it all settle? If I get 5 or 6 inches like people recommend that would be 3-4 (8 cubic yard) trucks. I can tell everyone thinks I'm crazy and I don't know what to do.

Peat moss is kind of an old school amendment :-) If one keeps up with current horticultural practices, recommendations change to keep pace with advancing technology.

1/4-1/3 of the mix can/should be organic matter (compost). Any more is excessive and unnecessary. Worm casting are excellent but very expensive - you need a lot of very busy worms to generate much. Mycorrhizae exists in most soils anyway so really no need to add . And mycorrhizae inoculants are pretty expensive as well.

You can expect the soil to settle by as much as half the volume. Recently tilled soil will be fluffed and settle naturally with time and rainfall. The new soil will also settle a significant amount and the more organic matter included with the mix, the more it will settle or shrink with time.

Thanks, GardenGal... you've been so helpful. I am almost to the finish line... the dirt is here and I'm glad I went with more than people were recommending in my town. The yard is uneven and absorbed it instantly. It really doesn't even look like a lot. And you're right. It does settle a lot. The only problem I'm facing now is grass is coming tomorrow and I only have one tree in the yard (Magnolia) and I don't want to injure it with the dirt or grass. How much room would you leave around it? I have a lot of dirt but it's light weight dirt - but like 9" in some places. Some people say to put nothing under the entire drip line and other people say leave 2 ft and others say 4 ft. Also, they pulled up the dump truck and it sat right beside the trunk of the tree while it dumped it's load. Will this hurt it? You never can turn your back or be on your toes enough! Thanks again!

The tree's feeder roots - the ones most important to its health - will be concentrated at the drip line and beyond. I would try very hard not to increase the soil level beyond what currently exists from the dripline back to the trunk. It's OK to sod in the area but leave a generous space around the trunk free for mulch. Generally, a circle with at least an 18" radius from the trunk is sufficient. (Makes it easier to mow as well!)

And as long as the soil doesn't sit in the place it was dumped for long, it should pose no damage to the tree.

Good luck with your project. Sounds like a lot of work but I'm sure it will be worth the effort :-)

I do really appreciate all your help over the last days! How did you learn so much about all of this? You have been a wealth of knowledge. I had asked all these other people in my town - including two arborists. And then it dawned on me, "Garden Gal knows so much maybe she understands trees too." I liked your answer because it wasn’t as extreme as not planting any grass anywhere under the drip line. It sounded like very balanced advice to me. I scoured Garden Web and read old posts and made notes and I put your advice at the very top of the page. I did. But, it was still confusing to me because all you “pros” vary a little with your advice, which is understandable but also confusing. I was hoping to find some common ground. I guess that would be mulch. Everyone on Garden Web seems to like mulch around a tree - but there are a lot of different opinions from all of you on how wide with a lot of you saying to strictly use mulch under the drip line and not even plant grass. But, the certified arborist on the phone yesterday said, “No! Don’t mulch at ALL!” He was an older man with years of experience and he basically said not to plant anything. And also there are totally different opinions about whether or not grass hinders or hurts. “The Georgia Gardener” on the web says that grass and tree roots compete for nutrients and that a tree can only really take off and thrive once it overtakes the grass. However, my yardman who used to work for a fabulous nursery here in town said that the grass feeds nutrients to the starving roots and that the grass will be fabulous for the tree. Too bad trees couldn’t just talk and tell us what they’re feeling!

How do I know about all this? It's my job :-) In additional to being a landscape designer, I am a consulting horticulturist and a horticultural educator. I am sure you are just as proficient and knowledgeable about your profession.

There will always be a lot of varying opinions on how to do things, depending on one's personal experience and how current they are with up-to-date horticultural practices. Sometimes the older, highly work-experienced folks (like maybe your arborist?) are years removed from the classroom or even any professional or technical publications so they are not aware of the newest technology and current, revised methods.

Trees competing with grass (or vice versa) can be an issue but only when dealing with young, newly planted and unestablished trees. If your magnolia has been in place for 3 years or more, then this is no longer a concern - the tree is established. And your yardman doesn't have it quite right - grass needs nutrients just like the tree does. It doesn't give them up to the tree. That's why there can be issues with young trees planted in the middle of a lawn - both fight for the same nutrients and moisture. But when you fertilize a lawn that has a tree growing in it, the tree benefits from the fertilizer just as the grass does.

Leaving an area surrounding an established tree free of lawn is more a matter of maintenance than it is necessarily for the health of the tree. It is just a whole lot easier to mow and edge when you do not have to deal with a tree trunk in the way! With small, young trees it is even more important to leave a clear area as they CAN be easily damaged (and even killed) by mowers and string trimmers. And you never want to leave clear areas unmulched. Mulch keeps the weeds down and insulates the soil, reducing evaporation and therefore the need for additional watering.

Asking for additional opinions is never a bad thing so no worries about posting your question on the Trees forum. The guys over there and I agree in general about most things tree-wise :-) And you'll find me responding in a bunch of different forums. My interests are very broad, as is my experience, and the teacher in me just has to come out when someone asks a question that I feel they will benefit from my answering.

Sorry, Garden Gal, I've been away from Garden Web for a while and just now catching up! Wow, I suspected you were a landscape designer from the beginning! And you're also a consulting horticulturist. Well, that explains it. I think that's really special you love to teach. I didn't know about smaller trees competing for nutrients unlike larger, established trees. Thank you for such thorough explanations about everything! The landscapers had left a three foot wide circumference around the Magnolia. The sod was coming that morning and I just gave in and left it as is. But, wouldn't you know it's flooded rain the last two weeks. I just posted a question about this before checking on this old post but if you happen to read this, should I go ahead and put cornmeal or something down with all this rain? The grass looks like it's thriving and growing - and the topsoil is sandy loam so I'm hoping that gives better drainage - but more rain is coming tomorrow, they say very heavy, and I'm beginning to get concerned :(

Thanks again!!