Diagnosis......? Procedure(s) indicated......?

Kadie, This plant is a very good specimen and if it where mine I would want to prune back the long branches, trying to keep it in a somewhat compact form. The branches that have become long and sticking out the sides seem to have a long spacing between the internodes.

With many native trees indigenous to my area as young trees will push out new terminal growth at a certain age. It is called "free to grow". Not the same Genus, but I wonder if the same is true with Adeniums.

Either way, my preference would be to keep it in check and not allow any long branches outside the desired shape to grow longer.

Rick

Oh no, not Chubbs! Just kidding of course. Everything that Rick said I agree with. Keep it compact. I would also want to minimally expose the caudex so that the form could be appreciated.

Tracy

Rick, thanks for your advice. Tracy, thanks for the confirmation.

I could trim back the two elongated stems, but will also pinch all the other terminal branches. My reasoning is that if the two stems were cut, the axillary branches on them will be spurred to grow--consequently offsetting the balance of the plant overall. An alternative might be to cut those two stems all the way back to the base and leave the other stems alone. Any thoughts on this?

I like the idea of cutting the two long branches to the base, this will trigger some branching of the axillary branches. Will you be defoliating Chubbs when you prune?

Tracy

Hi Tracy,

I did think of snipping in half those leaves that were larger near the bottom of the base. Defoliating--like removing leaves? Shoot! This guy is so compact with a lot of axillary branches growing on the stems! I am so afraid of doing something to him that would spell his demise!

Go ahead and prune the two wild branches and then take some time to observe to see if you feel you need to do more. There is no need to hard prune this guy, he is close to perfect already. You can always come back and do more later if you feel it is needed.

Tracy

Kadie, can be a difficult decision when you are trying to maintain a uniform shape.

When I look close at this plant. It looks as though it is more than just the two longest branches that have taken a growth spurt. Many of the others look to be lengthening also? May be that you will need to just trim the branches as they grow longer and not all at one time.

It will be the terminal growth points at the end of each branch that will produce flower buds. I do not believe the the small leaf clusters up the stem will flower.

Rick

Okay--you two are in consensus. I will trim only the longest branches for now and monitor him closely. Thank you for your advice and practical reasoning. I am now convinced this is the way to go.

-Kadie

Here he is...all trimmed up!

Now put out some flowers!

may i give my 2 cents to this plant, trim all the leafs, and you will be amazed after 2 months, if you trim all leaves, let her stay outside with full sun, to give more branching...

Thanks JP! Your suggestion is appreciated.

Terrific job, Kadie. Chubbs looks great with his new do. I am amazed how large he has grown! The next opportunity could you share a photo of Chubbs with the ruler next to his caudex? He is fascinating to look upon. I like the idea of keeping the form trimmed back and not overdoing the prune. I know it took courage to move forward, so good for you. I am looking forward to watching this beauty bloom.

Tracy

Question for JP, are you suggesting to defoliate the plant? Or when you say trim the leaves are you suggesting that Kadie snip the leaves in half? Kadie sorry I said that dirty word again.

Tracy

Tracy,

When I trimmed Chubbs I went ahead and clipped some leaves in half--maybe the picture doesn't show this very well. The idea of de..uh..uh..foli..uh..uh... is still up for debate.

-Kadie

sunlight can penetrate all over... I don't believe that the plant bulges, that's bluff.... By doing so, light can act as a disinfectant...Light also triggers more branches n make the plant, a whitish skin, and if you do, do it when the plant is 6 to 9 months old, why?. No storage cells on the smaller plants, no leaves, no food, wetting only.... Killing is easy, Bigger plants have enough storage, can manage even without leaves, Always dehydrate the plant for a week, before defoliating, why again? Induced coma / dormancy No stress, until the plant bounces back Acclimatization is perfect, Shock can often do irreplaceable damage to plants...That's why step by step procedures is best methods...

Oh my goodness! Induced coma? Oh wow! Now I'm the one getting stressed! <Ha Ha>

JP, thanks for this info. I believe what you just presented is quite plausible. Could you give me your reference source? Have you tried this yourself?

-Kadie

my source is my coach, his a Extreme Collector, i do what he says and everything works out for me, and he almost got all adenium species already, his just missing adenium omani in his collection, and his Thai Socos and arabicums, is extremely crazy, they are just babies but you can see the potentials already, and his one of the lucky ones that got a baby golden crown from thailand, the grand champion mother plant, that only has 3 baby seedlings, and the owner gave him one, because of his dedication,

my last post was his own words when i was talking to him in chat,and his telling me to go thailand this december for the competition and he will be introducing me to all the grand masters,but im to busy for my profession holidays is a work days for us,ill be trying them right away after my plants gets to 6 months,some will be under direct sunlight and some will be under my led lights, my led lights can give super compact growth to any plants, so my doing so i will see the difference, sunlight, you have to play with it, you need to rotate them to get your branches symmetrical, and i already ordered my bonsai wires to practice when they start growing big, i have an order of grand champion seeds with certificates coming this august, only ordered little bit probably 9 seeds, seeds were 3 per $4, and the rest is $1 per 4, those are thai socos, those are 2 certificates from the one ill be ordering

I am impressed! You have your very own coach. Please, would you download a copy of my Chubbs and show to your coach/mentor. But wait...when the sun comes out I will take pictures in the sunshine and post.

already sent the pictures to him, will wait later on,well im out for now time to eat lol and watch TED2 :)

Yes Kadie I did notice the snipped leaves on Chubbs. This will encourage the leaves to grow smaller I believe you had mentioned. Looking forward to seeing the progress of Chubbs. Save the D-word for another plant that perhaps isn't as charming and beloved as Chubbs.

Tracy

While I do not mean to be disrespectful or negative and I do respect what JP is growing. I am sure JP's coach is very highly regarded.

These plants are Arabicum forms and the structure shown is a genetic trait. This can be altered, but the type of growth that these produce is not what will be achieved by an Obesum form.

Many of the growers are producing seeds from JVK, EB, GB, Diamond scintillation, etc.. From growers such as JK Adeniums, Ray Saraburi and others in Thailand & Taiwan.

Even when you purchase these seeds mentioned (which are registered with the Thai government) they will not all produce this from in photo's.

I hope that JP's coach has some beneficial information for you Kadie.

Human manipulation can only change or add so much.

Rick

I was wondering whether JP told the coach that mine was only an obesum. Certainly that would be obvious looking at my plant. I agree that my obesum plant cannot grow into a form like those arabicums pictured above--the thought never even occurred to me. So yes, hopefully the coach will have beneficial info for me.

Thanks, Rick.

-Kadie

I am sure that JP has informed his coach Kadie and if not he probably would have known the difference. I am reading and seeing a lot of people wanting these very fat and squat Arabicum/Soco's and in my experience and from a few others. They are no different from seed than any of the other species/forms that we start. We can only hope for one or two and the number of seeds purchased makes a difference.

I am impressed to see what JP is doing and alway interested in his progress.

Rick

Rick,

For sure about the seeds we start--there's no guarantee that they will be true to parent plant. I'm still getting pinks and reds and only single petals. Yet I ordered hundreds of supposedly yellow, purple, mixed color, white, and in forms of doubles and triples. I met a fellow at a village market 3 days ago who told me that a few years back he planted 500 seeds. Only one double yellow was produced from the lot--the rest were pinks (he showed me a picture). I had a few of my plants with me--he thought they were 3 years old. He wouldn't believe that they were less than a year old. He said he doesn't fertilize his DRs.

Anyway, back to arabicums and soco's...glad you pointed this out about their seeds.

Oh hi JP,

I was busy typing the above response to Rick when you posted your reply above. Did your coach say anything else about my Chubbs?

Tracy, you asked for a photo with a ruler next to the caudex:

The tape is closer to the camera so the measure you see is not true. I don't have a caliper, but did determine the diameter by measuring the circumference: 9.75" X 0.3183 = 3.10" caudex. (I took a string and wrapped it around the base of the caudex just above the fat roots, marked it, then matched it to the tape to get the circumference of 9-3/4.")

Glad you asked, Tracy, now I have a reference point for its growth.

-Kadie

kadie this what he said...."I doubt, any images of blooms.... Can leave her, she looks gorgeous."...he might able to name it properly to the best of his knowledge if you get blooms from her

Thanks, JP! You have been very helpful.

And thank you Rick and Tracy--you guys have been very helpful always.

I will leave him alone for now so he can grow his own way.

Hmm...looking for the next candidate.

-Kadie

but yea, arabicums is arabicums, Thai Socos is basically just a hybrid arabicums, made by people by crossbreeding, people name it whoever made the breeding, seeds will not come out as the way you wanted it, you can make a best arabicum in a normal one, you just need to train the plant itself, i choosed to buy the seeds with certificate, because it holds the genes of the mother plant, its been hand pollinated to make sure it gets the same genes, but many in thailand doesn't say if its OP or hand pollinated,

And the next candidate is...tune in tomorrow.

JP, I have found much of the same with seeds. I did get some Emerald Bracelet & Gold Bracelet seeds with the certificate also, in the spring.

Very hard to know what we will get with most of the other seeds we get.

Kadie, Most of the growers of these Adeniums (obesum) are having to start 1000's, upon 1000's of seed, just to get some different blooms. I have a great deal of respect for my Australian friends, as they cannot order in any Adenium plants, only seeds. They have to rely on reputable sellers /hybridizers of seed to get the first step accomplished (some nice seedlings), then they start their own hand pollinating to produce their own new hybrids.

The flowers (own seed grown) that they have been showing photo's of over the past number of years is quite outstanding. Truly amazing is what I say.

They speak highly of Ko, Rinoa (she worked with Ko prior) and quite a few others.

I believe that you can do it Kadie. You just need to find a reputable seed source to atleast have better percentages of something different. Even now with hybridizers, these yellows are just not stable. They start out yellow at beginning and fade within a day or two. The humidity or lack there of can alter color and so much more. A lot of this I am sure you are aware of.

Rick

obesums flowers...you need at least to plant 3000 seedlings just to get 20% chance to get the same flower as the mother plant, your best bet if you order is grafted plant,

rick were you the one who ask fory source in facebook? have you sown them already, i know a guy in Australia also that ordered from him and he said all the seeds he sowed germinated in a fast phase,

Jericson, I have ordered many seeds from different sources from Thailand and Tawain. Cannot say too much as to what my percentages are, as I have not had all of them bloom to date.
Most of the seeds I get now are from people raising there own and there is more control over pollination and the seed viablility is much greater.
I received seeds from N.R.Sundaram quite a few years ago and Anucha. My seeds from Rinoa (Taiwan) have proven to be very good seed with close similarities and that is fine by me.
I realized quite a few years ago if I wanted a certain flower that I needed to buy a grafted plant and that I s why I applied for Import Permits.
The seeds for my Emerald Bracelet, KHZ and Gold Bracelet came from JK Adeniums. It was too difficult to try and get them from Ray Sarabhuri as the language barrier and wanting to be paid via West Union Bank made it too complicated for what I was willing to hastle.
Rick