I grew some from seed bought from 'Thompson & Morgan' Seed Co., a few years ago. They came back the following two seasons looking just as the first year. Then we had a real harsh winter and they didn't make it....

Sandy

Same results as Sandy with seed grown 'Cherry Brandy' surviving until a hard winter about two years ago. I started more from seed this spring. They are growing slowly. Looking for good sized plants next year.

Cherry brandy self-seeds and produces interesting variations. This year they are sort of a brownish-red and speckled--I might start over, but some people like the flowers.

Standard rudbeckias like mums are somewhat marginal in Minnesota as perennials. Only the R. fulgida varieties like Goldtrum are dependable permanent perennials around here. The fancier types are often best treated as early started annuals, and are at best only biennial or short lived perennials, although they do self sow.

One important point is that the early stolons in many of these aster family plants are quite fine and have little root behind them for sustenance. They are extremely vulnerable to early spring drought and thrive much better if attention is paid to watering early, so that the stool has dependable moisture to root into. Very often what is often considered to be winter kill, is actually spring drought victims.

interesting info OldDutch. Thank you for that as I will pay more attention to spring watering.