Ditch the fan (why would you use it anyway?) and use a humidity tray - one with at least 1" high sides, altogether wide enough to span the foliage spread spread of the Ficus. Fill it with large pebbles (or anything that'll keep the pot bottom from touching the water you'll keep in the tray). That'll be fine for the Ficus. The other doesn't need it at all - it's a succulent, almost-a-cactus.

Fans may be appropriate for trees with thin branches and trunks that you want to harden up (as you might with a maple outdoors), but not for the above trees, plus the air drying it provides would cancel out the humidity you provide.

The fan won't be directly on them, more so to refresh the air, and provide a more natural environment.

I had read about Al and a few other members using humidity trays, and they found it only marginally raised humidity levels (half of 1% using a hygrometer) and wasn't really much more effective than misting your plant.

I am looking to keep humidity balanced. Also I am concerned about bugs and fungi rooting in the humidity tray. I am open to the idea, but I would like a fairly controlled environment to raise these in. With our heat running a bunch I would be concerned the air would be sapped of moisture.

I am still new, but I have been putting in the study time. Always listening though!

Thank you Al,

your input is always so fact-laden!

I thought I had read somewhere about moving air keeping mites at bay! Which with my dog around will be key. I assume too, it would help keep any fungi in check as long as humidity levels didn't get to high?

I want to take full advantage of all time I have for growing. I understand winter is slow for growth, but I would prefer to have healthy trees in the Spring, to trees clinging to life, begging to see the Sun. As you well know, Spring doesn't always signal the return of sunlight in Michigan lol

Now I see you use CFL shop lights to overwinter, other than cost (which with your sized operation must factor in), what advantages do those have to a "grow light" CFL?

Some trees take to my set-up very well. Others seem to sort of snooze through the winter, often losing a lot of leaves toward spring. For what I have in the 22 shop lights - 44 4' bulbs, I could probably have some HPS or halide lights ..... and the added heat would be a plus. Still, though, nothing dies & everything seems happy to take right off as soon as I bring it out in late May. I have no trouble keeping serissa, rosemary, Eugenia, and a couple of dozen other genera happy all winter while the rest sort of coast.

I'm not sure I understand your last question.

Al

Hmm I seem to have that problem sometimes lol, too many thoughts bumping around up there.

I was asking what advantages a CFL shop light would offer over a CFL unit marketed for hydroponic or other indoor gardening? Though I think you inadvertently answered my question.

Seeing as how you can overwinter the more finicky trees with relative ease using this set up, it should be just the thing for my hardy little trees.

As always a million thanks!

Your advice (combined with no small amount of research) is dispelling the aura of mystery surrounding container gardening for me.

Tapla and others - thank you for what might be the first time I've heard someone say that about h. trays - that they don't really do much (to say the least!). I spouted the party line above about them because it's what I've done for so long, but maybe I'll be in less of a rush to do it in future. I honestly have found that the most effective humidity generator has been my indoor greenhouses (they're fairly large, with built in lighting, little side fans and glassed in sliding door sides). Those or (for one tree at a time) the terrific big glass bell I found a few yrs ago... a lot more attractive than plastic bags of any kind, and I put chopstix underneath to allow for some air.

I agree with Al that humidity tray does very little. I even tried, in my early days, with aquarium style air bubblers - marginally better. May be I should have tried with a larger air pump with lots of air stones.

Now I have too many plants. I used to have them in my basement and it was a struggle to keep the humidity up. Darn leaky old house. Now I have them in my enclosed porch facing south. Lot easier to raise the humidity since it is sort of isolated. I think having that isolated environment is the key as others have noted too.

This winter I will experiment with a small fan that runs all the time. And a garden mister on a water timer hanging about 18 inches in front. Will see what happens.

On lighting side I have experimented some. Shop lights are cheaper so you can have several lighting up different areas. They are not much different from the flourescent grow lights. They need to be close to the plants. I have two halides and they are just wonderful. I use CFLs to for areas where the CFLs do not reach. 100-200W equivalent CFLs are optimum (I think) for this purpose. Last year I tried one 2ft T5 lamp (24W) and they were just awesome but the fixtures are expensive. But it is much more intense than the 4ft T8 or T12 lamps. With all that when the sun is shining through the windows of my porch I barely can notice the light of the 600W halide. Seems like such a waste of energy - another project someday to control the lights. I have not tried the new super expensive LED grow lights yet.

Having said all that I still have trouble keeping rosemary alive. I have lost one every year and I keep trying to figure out why.

What do you do with the Rosemary - location, water, light, etc?

This, for what it's worth, on air circulation: click here

My evidence is anecdotal, but my plants overall seem to do better with air circulation thru the winter(tabletop rotating fan), especially my Fukien Tea's. The grow room is at the max square footage of the humidifier's rating, and barely provides 50% rh in the heart of winter but close to 70% in fall/spring as the home humidifier is better able to keep up on its end.

I really bumbled around and killed plants the first few years of growing indoors, but saw improvement each year as air circulation, humidity and improved lighting were added, but I also got better at watering appropriately during this period. So, while each addition seems to have added to the health of my plants, it's hard to pin down what's been most beneficial. My gut tells me 1. watering appropriately and light, 2. humidity, 3. air circulation. That and a dollar will buy you a soda.

You mentioned portulacaria, and for that you need no extra humidity. Perhaps even silica crystals as a top-dressing? - just kidding. As to the ficus, they tend to tolerate a wide range of humidity, but if you will be trying to establish aerial roots the rh will need to be around 70% or better. Looking forward to hearing about your successes and challenges, John. And I appreciate everyone's input- I always learn something new.

ez

I am looking forward to it as well, this will be my first indoor garden! I did my first research into indoor gardening while considering beginning a medical marijuana crop (current MMJ cardholder) a few years ago. After reading a few books, I knew I had too many limitations. Price and a clean, safe location being a problem, I scrapped the idea.

However it did instill in me many proper practices that must be maintained, air flow, humidity, sufficient lighting, cleanliness and proper watering. I am now eager to try my hand at keeping my bonsai as happy as I can overwinter.

I don't know what it is about gardening, but it excites me to learn about it and challenge the boundaries of my knowledge. I stare at my P Afra for an hour or more some days, inspecting for new buds, watching the new branches spread, and so on, it brings me peace. As hokey as that might sound haha.

-John

"I stare at my P Afra for an hour or more some days, inspecting for new buds, watching the new branches spread, and so on, it brings me peace." Boom, you're hooked. Join the crowd. ~8-]

ez

Bonsai is SUPPOSED to be relaxing and bring you peace ..... and taking care of plants feeds your nurturing gene. ;-)

Al

Soon you will be also staring at the roots too when repotting. Proper soil will create a dense mass of evenly spreading/branching roots. The perfect fractal.

You may also like this humidity dome. I use it for stressed out plants. It has a adjustable vent on top. You have to careful since too much humidity and no airflow can be trouble too.

@moochinka: Last winter I kept my rosemary next to brightly lit window where it is a bit cooler also (no more than 60F). Held back the water quite a bit. I guess I should post separately and not steal John's thread.

To TROPIC of Cancer - Unless you live in the N. pole, Rosemary is an outdoor plant - full dormancy and everything... maybe why you had trouble. Many herbs, etc. can live on a windowsill year round (e.g. oregano is Italian/Greek) but not all, and not Rosemary.

I am very interested to see the roots in a few months. I have already read Al's trick to good nebari and plan on employing it when I repot. I potted up my P Afra as it had far outgrown the 2.5 in. pot it was in when I first got it. I put it into a gritty mix similar to Al's only with crushed lava rock vs. Turface.

I plan on repotting in the spring with the turface included, with a root prune and branch prune. I am in the R&D and material gathering phase at the moment. Putting in a little OT to make some extra scratch, I have a few projects in the works (new apartment), plus I do enjoy having a social life from time to time haha.

I will be interested to see if this nebari technique works for a succulent like this. Please keep us updated on that!

ez

Which nebari technique for succulents? Did I miss something in this thread?

Another thread, maybe THIS ONE. It was not mentioned as being specifically for succulents.

ez

Yep that's the thread. I think in another thread Al said it worked on his Portulacaria.

I have done some research and read stuff here, but they just mention about room humidifier, not for plating, anyone have any recommend?