A built in fridge can have panels to match adjacent cabinets, but that does not make it integrated. Integrated means that one cannot tell it is a fridge- the compressor and grates are hidden as well. Usually flush application, but my panels are full overlay to match my cabs. Built in and integrated are definitely different. Here are my 30" Thermador columns:

The quality of ALL the brands has gone downhill since before. Like any brand of appliance, a SubZero COULD have an issue within the first couple years, but the majority of them won't. They had an issue several years ago with leakage, but they stood behind their product and fixed it. Nobody here can guarantee that you will or won't have a problem with a particular brand. Unfortunately, if high end brands do have an issue outside of warranty they will cost more to repair than lower end brands. That's just the way it is. SubZero's warranty is better than most in the industry, with 2 years base parts/labor, and sealed system warranties (which are the most nasty, expensive repairs) extending much longer. Plus they have been known to do goodwill repairs outside of warranty significantly more often than other manufacturers. Their customer service is tops. They do not have an industry-wide reputation for poor reliability, in fact they have a reputation for excellent reliability. No matter what, you will find haters and fans out there of every brand.

My recommendations for the best quality units would be SubZero and BSH. BSH makes Bosch, Thermador, Gaggenau, and Miele fridges. They are similar under the hood but have differences in the interior. Liebherr has fans as well though more complaints than the previous 2 brands (but comes in at a lower price point). Last I checked, JennAir did not make true integrated refrigerators, even though they advertised them as such. Recently, that may have changed, I don't know.

Most built-in companies produce both panel ready built-in And fully integrated, Subzero included. Built-in will still have an exposed frame and grille usually, and standard handles. Fully integrated is made to be invisible, but is Also usually available with a stainless panel and handles purchased separately from the manufacturer. I am leaning toward Liebherr in this house. Some of the others can actually be more expensive than Subzero depending upon model

Here are some photos that show the difference:

These are all variations of Sub-Zero built in. even with panels, you can still see a separation from the cabinetry.

And here is fully integrated:

You can tell it is the fridge only by knowing the size and configuration of the doors and drawers. The other companies are similar. Built in will still be visible, may project a bit from the cabinetry. Fully integrated disappears.

I disagree fully integrated still looks like a fridge. What in the world is wrong with a fridge being a fridge??? Who are we trying to fool?

The emperor is naked....

Practigal, I would much rather look at a nice cabinet than a hulking SS fridge. No one is trying to fool anyone. However, when our kitchen is open to the living area, and the fridge is on the wall you see, why would I want to look at a ss hulk?

I've seen them integrated with cabinets and drawers of similar scale, where the configuration isn't so obvious. Also, if you have separate fridge and freezer columns with a single door, you could have them amid a series of single doors and there would be no give away.

Mine stood alone so if you understood the door configuration you knew what and where it was, but on the other hand a lot of people who visited the apartment did not know where it was and a number of the people who looked at the apartment to buy had no idea such a refrigerator even existed.

I wanted it hidden because in that apartment, it was in my Living Room, right outside the kitchen proper.

I don't think this is a case of Emperor's new clothes, really. As for there being anything wrong with a refrigerator or anything else looking exactly what it is, there isn't anything wrong with it. But there's nothing wrong with concealing it, if you want, either.

What width are you looking for?

I wanted to add that one of the criticisms of fully integrated is that guests may not be able to automatically tell which door is the refrigerator and the host has to tell them and that this is annoying.

I don't really buy this argument very much. The first time a guest visits your house they don't know where the bathroom is either, or what is in which similar and anonymous-looking cabinet door in your kitchen either, so you have to tell them that, too. And once they know, most people remember, they aren't usually so dumb they can't. Even my cat knows what is in which cabinet and which is the refrigerator, after seeing it.

Surely you can also tell with your ears where the refrigerator is, too.

Actually, mine are really quiet. One of the biggest compliments I have received thus far was when my friend open my freezer thinking it was the pantry :) not sure how anyone would find that annoying, that is the entire point. I think refrigerators are generally ugly, if you can hide them, why not? Let me know as soon as they make a panel ready microwave drawer.

I simply can't imagine caring that guests might not know where the refrigerator is the first time they visit. I'm sure I can find the refrigerator faster than I can find the drawer with the silverware or the cabinet with the glasses!

Beware 'building in' something that will fail or at least need repair -- as all appliances will. Do you tear up the kitchen when the new appliance isn't the same dimensions as the old one?

I hate SS. I've torn out a whole countertop of it -- because SS 'reads' GREY, and because this is my home, not a restaurant.

It will be a cold day when I polish the exteriors of my appliances or use bar soap to spare my marble shower from discoloring.

Chisue that was my fear with my 27" SZ: having to replace it. I am leaving some flex space around the next built-in to potentially accommodate something slightly different.

NSM - 36 in.

I don't need fully integrated. I need a fridge that is flush with the counters. I also really dislike SS, and because my kitchen is so small, a 36" SS builtin would just be a ridiculous monster in the kitchen and look completely out of place and scale. I do want panels for the fridge, mostly because I rent my house out and I'm terrified a tenant will scratch SS.

I'm aware all appliances can, and do fail. I'm looking for track records, though.

Why are you getting SS if you hate SS? Why not just get white?

Carrie, I'm not getting SS. I'm going to get panel ready.

For what it's worth: Just looked at a German web site for a similar fridge as the Gaggenau RB492701; it got a 5/5 with 780+ review.

Also very good: Bosch (also won equivalent of Consumer Report). Of course, the absolute winner was AEG (owned by Electrolux).

Liebherr integrated is a little smaller capacity than panel ready or stainless. Miele is another option. Want to save a lot of money with many more normal price options? Deepen your counters to 30" and recess the frig into the back wall if necessary. Deeper counters are incredibly usefull once you've used them. Think prep on the extra width of an island. Everyone prefers the additional space.

NSM, are you talking about the Liebherr, i.e.: "similar fridge as the Gaggenau?

I think Gagg, Miele, and Bosch integrated are as expensive as SZ. Miele is more I think. Shallow depth has been the most important in all my kitchens with no extra room to recess. And the interior layouts and finish too are better. Thousands better I don't know, only the individual can decide.

Tibb, no, I was talking about a similar Gaggenau model as the model (36" wide) that's for sale here in the US (which starts with RB492...). Also from the 400 series and starts with 492 but with different numbers after that. There are quite a few more models on the German market than here in the US.

Bosch and Liebherr fully integrated are around 6700.00

We got the sz 36" built in SS. We got SS as our kitchen is white and we wanted pops of metal for contrast. It's in its space and looks beautiful but hasn't been hooked up yet. It sits slightly proud of the cabinetry. I'll post a pic. Integrated is flush with cabinetry. We liked the look of integrated better but the configuration of the integrated model with 2 drawers we didnt like. Please note that after visiting the SZ store in nyc I was told that you can order your cabinetry to accommodate the built in model to look flush. I don't recall the specifics as our cabinetry had already been ordered.

Just wanted to note we also looked at makes other than SZ but for our purposes- interior configuration and just the way the doors felt we went with the SZ. Check out miele's white finish. If you're doing a modern kitchen it's stunning.

I am kinda laughing here. I, too, wanted to save to get a counter depth fridge. I have worked in restaurants all my life and despise stainless steel. (Really, the only thing club soda will shine.) It would have been anything other than SS or black. Don't care.

I just widened a doorway and noticed that my current fridge (thanks CL!) actually impeded the doorway. So, what's a chick to do? This chick integrated her fridge right out of the kitchen into the mudroom on the other side of said door.

HOLY MOLY the space I now have! In the past, I whined about my "landing spot" that was the 24" DW counter and how I should have know and planned it wider. I did all my kitchen work there. Now I have all the landing space in the world, still right next to the fridge.

I realize this has little to nothing to do with this thread, but if you don't like your fridge, there's always something you can do! I even toyed with the thought of getting a small, undercounter fridge, since I live alone and barely cook. Then, I thought, "Nahh. Why bother."

Done. Problem solved.

Actually, my house and kitchen are very rustic, not modern at all. My kitchen is very small, and there really is absolutely no other place for a refrigerator.

My mother and I went to Yale Appliance today to look at the 24-in. depth fridges. Narrowing it down. I really like the SZ 36" with the two freezer drawers. That is the most pricey, of course. I'm narrowing it down, though. I'm starting to get a better picture of it all, though. I'd love a 30" fridge, better scale to my kitchen, but none of them have good produce drawers, and I rent my house and am concerned they won't have the capacity for two families' food.

In the 36" fridges, I'm finding it's a toss up between getting the door pockets that can hold gallon-size containers or getting those that cannot but getting a full-size bottom shelf in the fridge part. can't have both, from what I can see. If gallon-size jugs can't go in door pockets, they have to go on a shelf, which means the 36" is the size I need, since a gallon of milk would take up too much shelf space in a 30" fridge.

Slowly figuring this stuff out. I'm lucky in that I'll have some financial help with this, and she trusts my judgement, even if I end up getting the pricey SZ. She says she'll know it was the right decision. I also get a 15% discount if I buy it from Yale Appliance.

Next step is to sit down with someone and really go through the books with them and go over every single model.

But I'm sure glad I have a very small kitchen! The fridge will eat up almost half the cost of this reno! But since I have low sq. footage for everything because of the kitchen being so small, and I don't need a GC, and I can do the demo-ing and the backsplash myself, just might all be do-able!

Buying a built in for a rental house is insane. Unless this is a very chic (and high priced) Manhattan apartment or Malibu condo.

Yeah, our rentals typically get used appliances.

It sounds like Tibbrix also lives in the house??

"...I rent my house and am concerned they won't have the capacity for two families' food..."

- - and - -

"... I'm lucky in that I'll have some financial help with this, and she trusts my judgement, even if I end up getting the pricey SZ. She says she'll know it was the right decision...."

I tend to agree with Sophie about the upscale fridge in a rental. But I don't understand the part about two families sharing one fridge.

I think tibbrix lives there but rents it out occasionally.

Large, luxury vacation rental where multiple families stay at the same time, when OP's family is not there?

None of them have good produce drawers.

That's the one and only thing I don't like about my 30" built in Thermador.

The rest I wasn't going to question, but since the rest of you are, I'm curious, too!

I don't even want to think of what a paneled built in would cost to replace on a regular basis after being trashed by renters!

"None of them have good produce drawers."

I'll say the produce drawers on my 30" integrated Liebherr have ample capacity for our needs.

Inside dimensions of each are 11" W x 16.5" D x 7.5" H ...of course YMMV

So is this like an Air BNB situation? I think I'd be inclined to find a place for a small undercounter or dorm sized fridge for guests to use and put it in the bedroom they would be staying in. Maybe provide a nice tray for them to carry the food back-and-forth to the kitchen when they are cooking. Or lined basket or bin.

I just wouldn't want people taking over my fridge.

Slightly off-topic but I have changed how I use my produce drawers in my fridge and it's one of the best things I've done. Produce drawers are at the bottom of the fridge and this has always icked me out a bit because per food handler's instructions for commercial kitchens, meats should be stored at the bottom in case they leak so they don't contaminate other foods. I use my produce drawer for meats and now store my vegetables in produce keepers made by Tupperware. I don't work for them so this isn't a sales plug.

Amazon.com: Tupperware Fridgesmart Container 4 Pcs Set Newest Design: Food Saver · More Info

If I've stocked up and then the week went haywire and we ended up being gone/eating out more than we anticipated, things stay fresh so much longer that we very rarely have anything that has lost its freshness using these. Of course, there's always soup! These also keep my fridge so much more organized and cleaner.

funkycamper, I'm definitely going to look into those!

I have thermador refrigerator/freezer - built in and integrated (I think). I am really happy with it. I will say that some guests recently couldnt find it, even though it does have a huge handles.

I kind of think all the high end brands are similar in quality. I would go with the one in the size and price that works best for you. That is what I did - I saw a thermador floor model at a local appliance store and bought it. Apparently, it was sold to someone else by accident, so they gave me a brand new one for the same price.

Sophie, agree, except that it's also my home and the kitchen is very small and I really need the 24-in. depth.

My situation is somewhat unusual. This is my home, yes. I personally don't need a built-in fridge. I could care less for myself, although the Maytag I bought when I bought the house is a POS total waste of money.

The reason for this reno, though, is that the bulk of my income comes from renting my house to vacationers, primarily in the summer. I am not on or near the saltwater beaches, so I have to rent on the strength of the house. This summer, I had an invasion ants (it's an old house, as well, 1880, the part where the kitchen is). As well, mice have constantly come into the kitchen via the crawlspace below because no one really sealed the kitchen off from the crawlspace when they built the kitchen. I've plugged everything with steel wool, though, and that has taken care of the mice, although they're still able to get in behind the cabinets, just not into the kitchen proper any longer.

But with the ant invasion this summer, I had to refund some rent money as an act of goodwill and apology to a few of my guests. I don't want my guests to have these kinds of problems, obviously, and I don't want to have to reimburse rent (my income/livelihood). I had sealed the window on the outer wall and never had a problem with ants, until this year. They are now coming in from behind the dishwasher...long story .

My cabinets are horrible. Two drawers have completely fallen apart, and one door split, which I glued back together. They are scratched up, sagging shelving and backing, particle board stapled cheap you-know-what.

So, to get the kitchen fully sealed off so critters can't get in there, I have to pull everything out to get to the walls and underfloor. If I'm doing that, I will replace the cabinets, floor and counter (which is now a laminate).

My kitchen is a very small, u-shaped kitchen. I can't open the fridge door all the way because it hits the oven door, so cleaning the vegetable bins is very hard because it's very hard to get them out and back in since I can't open the door all the way.

But my house has two wings to it, which makes it very appealing for two families who want to vacation together and split rental rent. Each family has a lot of privacy since there is a queen bedroom in each wing, each with its own bath. But with two families, a tiny kitchen is problematic. With the fridge jutting out into the floor, as it does now, two people cannot work in the kitchen. Hence my need for a 24-in. depth fridge. And then you get into, if you're going to spend that kind of money for a refrigerator, get the right one, even if it costs a bit more. You're already spending a *^*(&)ing fortune.

I'm getting the paneling for three reasons: I really dislike stainless steel; I am terrified of tenants scratching SS; a SS fridge would look gargantuan in my tiny kitchen.

I move out when my house is rented.

Thanks for the explanation. This makes much more sense. Getting a panelled fridge will also look better in your older home. Best wishes.

Well, how many people would be staying at the house when it's full? How far to the nearest grocery store? Do people really need to store that much food when they're on vacation? How long does the average renter stay?

I'd be inclined to go with a 30" if at all possible. A lot of stuff in a fridge is condiments, things that accumulate over time. If you start with an empty fridge when you show up at a rental it may take a while to fill it up.

I'd go with reliable and durable. My GE is a piece of crap with the drawer sliders and bins cracking in no time (and, of course, the exploding glass shelve).

I'm really narrowing this down now. NSM, that is the real question, isn't it? How many people...upwards of ten, sometimes more, sometimes less. How much freezer and refrigerator space do they need for a week's vacation?

Just went to the appliance place and have narrowed it down to being between The SubZero 36" IT (so integrated) with the two freezer drawers, or the 30" BI (so built-in) with a single freezer drawer.

The double freezer drawer impacts cu. ft. storage capacity, big time, so in the smaller 30", I'd definitely have to go with the single freezer drawer.

I just did some comparisons:

My current Maytag has 15 cu. feet of refrigerator space and 6.1 cu. ft. of freezer space.

The SZ IT-36 inch with two freezer drawers has 13.3 cu. ft. of fridge space and 6.4 of freezer space (so slightly more than the Maytag!);

The SZ BI-30 has 12.7 cu. ft. of fridge space and 4.1 cu. ft. of freezer space.

So the 30-in is built in, which means it juts out a bit more than the IT, and it has 2.3 cu. ft. less fridge space than my Maytag and a full 2 cu. ft of less freezer space.

The 36 on. IT (integrated, so more flush with the counters, which is what I need) is pretty close to my Maytage, cu. ft. wise. Large freezer, I think is critical. Tenants do buy bags of ice, and I don't feel like my Maytag has too much storage space for me at all, yet it has more than the 36-in. SZ.

So I think the fridge I want/need is the SZ IT-36.

Plus, the 36 in. fridge is only $80 more than the 30-in! The 36 in. with the single freezer drawer is $200 more.

NSM, my Maytage is a piece of crap too. One minute the ice is hard and perfect and the ice cream is frozen as it should be; next time I'm in there, I can slip the ice around my fingers and it's wet, while the ice cream is very soft. Yet the lettuce in the fridge is frozen. The SS has held up very poorly despite my taking care of it and following cleaning instructions. I do like the two compressors the SZ's have (and the others) and the more stable temperatures. I looked at the Liebherr as well, but the freezer drawers were downright wobbly and felt very cheap. If I'm going to spend that kind of money for a refrigerator, it had better be solid as a rock. The SZs are.

Funky those are exactly what I need. Going to be sure to get some of those.

I think you answered your own questions as to which to get.

yes, cpartist. I whittled it down and the right one showed itself :-)