Chickencoupe,

I bought a Glenora grape and a Lakemont green grape from Stark Bros. several years ago, well actually there were 2 more kinds, they were in a package deal. The others didn't make it but the Glenora and the Lakemont did. The Glenora is a blue/black and is very sour, like wild Post Oak grapes, but makes some of the best jelly, taste something like Welches. The Lakemont (related to the Seedless Thomson) has had a hard time but is still living and it is what they call white but it is really a green color and it taste so good, it is the sweetest grape I have ever tasted almost like sugar. As I understand it the wine grapes are worse to take diseases than table grapes. Both of these are seedless.

You might get in touch with someone from Redlands community college in El Reno. They have a two year degree in wine making. They have a website.

Ty, everyone! I really appreciate the input and experiences. I hate to be such a nerd (bore), but I'm willing to go the lengths to find something that will last and grow happily on its own (but for a long time!) and willing to learn what to do to make that happen. I bet grafting will be involved. I will look into these varieties and make those phone calls!

If I can possibly get something good out of the grapes, too, that would be awesome! Otherwise, the fruit from whatever gets planted will end up for the feathery and furry types. <3

Chickencoupe,

I forgot to say that the first year after planting is the hardest part about grape vines. But if you can get them through the first year they can live for a long time some grape vines live for over 100 years. There are some out in California called (Mission Grapes) on some vineyards that are well over 100 years old.

About any grape vine will do if all you are wanting is the grape leaves.

The previous owner of our house had planted grape vines and fruit trees on the drainage right of way, one of the reasons we bought the house. The city cut down most of the trees and the grapes wouldn't grow for us. DH cut them off and mowed over them. After that they went nuts and climbed one of the remaining apple trees. We never got grapes from them though. We would have had plenty of leaves. All gone now.

Some types of grapes need a pollinator to make grapes. I know that the wild Post Oak grapes come male & female. The experts can tell which is which.

So sad to hear them gone, Amy. But that's city life, I guess.

Auther, I hadn't thot of this. I bet I end up with 2 or 3 varieties. Just makes sense.

Just curious-what are you wanting the grape leaves for? Sounds intriguing!

Stuffed grape leaves! Love them SO much drizzled with lemon juice. I think it might be something in the fermentation process that I crave. Plus, it's good for biodiversity.

How interesting! I may have to look into this some more. By the way, did you get the desert willow seeds?

I seem to remember that at one time there was a pickle recipe that called for a grape leaf to be put in each jar of pickles. I don't know why.

Chickencoupe,

How do you make stuffed grape leaves? It sounds like it would be good.

Supposedly if you put a grape leaf in with a jar of pickles they will stay crisper. I searched Tulsa including Whole Foods) for grape leaves last year. No fresh ones. I also read (AFTER making the pickles) that a pinch of black tea will do the same thing. It is the tannins that are supposed to keep the pickles crispier.

autherray, one can usually find the jarred leaves in one of the bigger grocery stores. There is a learning curve to rolling the leaves. Here's a recipe

the stuffing is normally a rice, meat and spice mixture. I make mine pretty plain with salt and pepper and include beef. Tons of garlic for mine! I've had lamb and that is superbly delish, too. When I do lamb I like to go half beef and half lamb because it's usually a cheaper piece of lamb meat that has been ground.

The finer restaurants use a rolling machine. Believe that? Pretty cool. I learned with someone. Here's a video. Learning to roll grape leaves leads up to rolling cabbage rolls, too! How to Roll Grape Leaves

Believe it or not ... with home grown leaves it is an extremely CHEAP food to make and serve as an appetizer. I can eat a pot full in 2 days - brky, lunch and dinner lol

bon

Harriet, I got them. Thank you!! I feel like such a failure after your tender work with the saplings. I will try again.

Okay. I'm going to include this in T-day meal, because I'm really wanting now.

Thanks Chickencoupe this is cool. It is just like cabbage rolls. Wish I had of known this sooner - had plenty grape leaves this summer.

Bon, The most important thing about growing grapes here is that they need well-drained soil and they do best in full sun. If you are growing for fruit, and not just leaves, proper pruning is essential and it involves really hard, hard pruning that removes much of the foliage. Too much foliage makes the plants a lot more disease-prone because thick foliage encourages fungal diseases. I suppose every time you pruned yours, you'd end up with lots of leaves to use in cooking.

Have you read the OSU Fact Sheet on growing grapes in the home garden? In case you haven't, I'll link it:

OSU: Growing Grapes in the Home Garden

Auther I hope you try some next year. I don't know anything about the fermentation process prior to cooking or even if it's necessary. I'm looking forward to finding out. I know I've seen vines in town. I hope to speak to an owner or two next year about theirs.

Thanks, Dawn. I have bunches of room at the end of the lot for these now that I know where I'll be planting trees. I'm hoping to try out one of the winter hardy varieties on the North side of the house where the English Ivy once existed. "try" being the operative word, of course.

Grape vines are not generally invasive, are they? I'm assuming they're not.

bon

I don't think grape vines very invasive if you keep them pruned and fix something to climb up on. Even the wild grapes don't seem to be invasive, at least to my thinking they aren't.

I don't know about fermenting the leaves but I would imagine you could soak them in something for a little while.