Hi Lynn-

Does 'Mademoiselle Franziska Krüger' appeal to you? I think she's supposed to be a rather nice-looking shrub, and somewhat compact, but I'm going by hearsay; perhaps someone who has grown her can give you a more realistic idea of size expectations than what HMF has.

I'm looking forward to reading other suggestions; I think I might need to get another Tea or two next year; most of mine are quite light-colored, and I'd like a little variety. I'm eyeing 'Beauty of Rosemawr' these days... I think it's probably the right size for your 'Maman C.' companion, but I don't know if the color's too bright...

Have fun deciding!

Virginia

Mademoiselle Franziska Kruger is beautiful and will be researched to determine mature size etc. and availability. I have only been growing Tea roses for a little over a year, have seen beautiful images of Mlle. Franziska Kruger here and there, but completely forgot about it. Thank you for your suggestion.

Lynn

Madame Antoine Mari?

Funny you suggested Madame Antoine Mari... it is the rose next to Maman Cochet on the opposite side. Maybe I got that one right.. I have not seen any of these roses in person. Thank you :)

Lynn

We've got Mlle Frank--she's been pretty modest in height, staying under 4 feet without much effort on our part. She isn't _dense,_ though, so I don't think of her as "compact," exactly--she has a rather airy structure similar to Comtesse du Cayla (for us--ymmv).

We don't love her; we don't hate her. Sometimes her flowers are really pretty and a lovely sort of golden peach; other times, she looks like a bunch of wadded up, used kleenex.

Our Rubens is having a fantastic year--he just will not stop blooming. Lovely white with parchment and flesh tones, and so far maxing out around 4 feet (He's 3-4 yrs old). I'd think he'd look terrific with Maman.

Isabella Sprunt is another modestly-sized tea that might harmonize well. Not as bloomy as Rubens, but a very respectable spring/fall bloomer with lemony-cream flowers.

Comtesse du C has a beautiful coppery-salmon color and modest size, but I think it might clash with MC?

Lastly, these aren't teas, but I think they'd do the job you want them to do really well: Souv de la Malmaison, Souv de St Anne, and Spice (assuming they like your location, that is. Here, they're workhorses.) Plus, I think the 2 Souvvies' dark foliage would look nice against MC.

Side note, I think I remember seeing a hedge of Mme Antoine Mari at the Farmers Branch Earth Kind trial gardens that was something like 9' tall. (Perhaps some of the N TX folks can correct/confirm my memory?) At any rate, do double-check the height specifications on that one.

Good luck!

Plectrudis,

Thank you for the candid information regarding Mlle. F.K. in its various stages.

Souvenir de la Malmaison is spectacular here. My bush form has about 20 partially opened blooms on it now, although I do not expect them to fully open before our winter temperatures hit on Christmas Day. I had considered, but was not sure about the color and petal form of SDLM or even SDLM Rouge next to Maman Cochet. Fortunately Mme. Antoine Mari has more room on the opposite side of Maman Cochet, but 9' tall is not what I was expecting nor wanted. Oh my....

I have Spice on my list and had also considered it for that location. I was unsure about the coloration and had concern that it would appear just white for much of the year???

Rubens is gorgeous. I will add this one to my research list.

Lynn

Baronne Henriette Snoy is another you might consider. Has stayed about 4'x4' for me in z10, won't sulk if you need to trim her and has no fungal problems. I'll try to take a photo of mine tomorrow. I agree with plectrudis concerning Mlle F Kruger, can have pretty blooms, but they ball in rain and sometimes proliferate. Has never been more than 3' tall and wide in my garden.

Here's a bush picture of Romaggi Plot Bourbon

Another of Romaggi Plot Bourbon. Don't know why I can only post one picture at a time.

I love Marie van Houtte, light yellow with reddish-pinkish outer petals:

Roses · More Info

Bush can be 3 X 3 or 3 X 9 according to help me find. I bet you could keep it pruned to 3 X 3. I have one in my garage to plant this spring. It apparently can also turn pink.

Also could the Romaggi Plot Bourbon be Comtesse de Rocquigny? They look similiar.

Mrs. Dudley Cross is another good one, and thornless.

Teas get huge in my climate. Mrs Dudley Cross, while beautiful, was at least six feet tall. I haven't grown one tea, that I can think of, that stays under 4 feet. Even Mme Bravy, which I thought was a small rose, is over 5 feet tall.

Another rose I'd recommend, that I think is a HT, not a tea, is Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux. It's beautiful and did not get over 4 feet. Also, the China, Archduke Charles is great. Hermosa is a possibility but I did not have much luck with it.

I'm thinking of Gruss an Aachen and Pink Gruss an Aachen because the colors should blend well, it doesn't get huge and is a good bloomer. I also have Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux, which I believe is a tea rose, but since they're both young I can't say much about them. The same goes for Mme. Antoine Mari. One modern rose which is spreading and seems to be a workhorse in the bloom department, with old-fashioned flowers, is The Faun (aka The Fawn). The flowers last quite a while, on the bush or in the vase.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Thus far, I have looked at what I believe to be mature images of Mme. Antoine Mari online, walked the area again this morning, and think I may need to move it to the space that was slotted for this new rose or the third rose must be similar in size to Mme. Antoine Mari if I let Mme. A. M. remain where it is.

These teas will be around a corner and across from my Austin's bed of roses. My Austin's are like a box of crayons in terms of color, so my hope was to very subtly reflect those colors across the path with the Tea roses. I had also hoped that the tea roses would be more complementary to each other versus contrasting. Because of this, on second thought I have to eliminate yellow unless it is a very subtle part of the rose's coloring. I think this will eliminate Marie Van Houtte and Mrs. Dudley Cross which appear to be primarily yellow??

While Mlle. Franziska Kruger has beautiful blooms, it was described as having airy structure which is less than ideal. This rose will be placed in an area along a walkway. I think a rose with more foliage /shrub like would do a better job of separating this area from that behind it.

Romaggi Plot Bourbon and Mme. Dore are gorgeous. Mme. Dore was not widely available when I began looking at her for my previous garden, and I just gave up. I will definitely research these two for the space, but they will only work now if I somehow find that Mme. Antoine Mari can easily be kept down to about 5' in height.

Honestly, I wish I really knew how the blooms for Maman Cochet appear in terms of color. Based upon HMF description, the color could be a little different.

I had considered purchasing another Clementine Carbonieri for the space, but I think the coloring could be just too busy for the area.

Baronne Henriette Snoy is a good possibility, but I may have to move Mme. Antoine Mari to its space. I am thinking that as the corner is turned along the path, the smallest tea rose should be first, with Maman Cochet in the middle and large rose in next to it. So medium, very large , large. Problem is Mme. Antoine Mari is up first and may not be medium.

Lynn

Lynn, over time most tea roses can grow to be quite large. Think of a mature lilac bush. I personally suspect that this may have contributed to their falling our of fashion as suburban gardens shrank in size.

I'm not sure how much room you have, but is there space to place the roses further back a bit from the pathway and put some smaller perennials and spring bulbs n the front closer to the path? Maybe an edging of some kind might be useful to unify colors that are potentially busier than you like.

Thank you Debby and Ingrid for suggesting Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux. It is a rose i recall liking, I just do not remember anything about it and will research it when i return home.

Debby, I often look to Phoenix gardeners as well as some California gardeners to gauge how well a rose will perform here. While I do not experience as much heat, it does become colder here, but all in all I believe it is often a wash. Your input in some respects is invaluable, and i also sincerely appreciate the suggestions made by all. Also, thank you for locating and post your beautiful images. I really do not know where my garden would be, even in these early stages if I did not have the support from members on this forum.

Rosefolly,

I left space in front of these roses to edge the path with perennials similar to those on the opposite side of the path. This area has a somewhat wide open space behind it that I have no idea what I will do with just yet.

Lynn

My suggestion would be to avoid Freddy. Yes blooms and grows quickly, but proliferates. (I have two...one by accident)

On the other hand, I think I want to buy a Snoy after seeing a locals beautiful blooms

Lynn, to some extent even tea roses can be kept somewhat smaller, and so far Mme. Antoine Mari has been a slow grower for me. I have to say my Mrs. Dudley Cross never really looked yellow; it was always more of a cream color with later on or in greater heat with a pinkish border. Have you considered Duchesse de Brabant or her beautiful sport, Mme. Joseph Schwartz? Here are pictures of Mme. Joseph Schwartz. Mine never grew higher than 5 feet but the drought unfortunately caused it to fade away. I still miss that rose very much.

Here is Duchesse de Brabant

.....and Mrs. Dudley Cross

My Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux came classified as a tea from Vintage. It is a very nice rose, and is currently around 6 - 7' tall and 10' wide here. It is on the stiffer/more upright/less twiggy end of the tea plant structure spectrum (like Etoile de Lyon) and tolerates pruning better than some teas. (The photos of it on HMF from Livermore are mine). My Mme. Bravy has just reached 5' after a half-dozen years -- a slow grower that does gradually get larger, it seems -- what a good bloomer that one is!

Ingrid, I have 2 Mme. Joseph Schwartz 2 gallon babies that were planted this Fall, and 4 Duchesse De Brabant, one of which is still in a pot. I considered it for the space, but was concerned that it will become too large. While all of your images are beautiful, your Mme. Joseph Schwartz made my heart skip a beat. Thank you :)

One concern that I have is Maman Cochet appears to have very warm tones and some of the pink roses appear to be cool pinks???.... and thus less complementary.

I also have a 2 gallon Le Vesuve, do you you all think L.V. will complement Maman Cochet in coloring and not become too large?

So far I am strongly considering:

Baronne Henriette Snoy

Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux

Lynn

My Baronne H Snoy was a climber for me. I loved this rose though, would love to have it again. I moved it because it was too big for the space and it died. My Mme Joseph Schwartz is also climbing up the tree next to her. But, I've had her for 6 or 7 years now and probably don't trim her as much as I could. She is one of my favorite roses.

Good luck in your choice; whatever you choose will be beautiful.

Lynn, I had considered Le Vesuve but did not suggest it because it definitely has a cool coloring, is viciously thorny and grows very wide. This rose needs a lot of space and a place where people won't accidentally brush against it. I have two of them so I know this rose well. In fact (I've told this story before) I fell into one of my Le Vesuve and subsequently fell down the steep hill behind it. My clothes had to be thrown away and when I went inside the house my husband for a moment thought I had been attacked by a mountain lion. Many deep scratches!

Baronne Henriette de Snoy I've only had one bloom from since it's new, and the bloom is a warm peachy color. Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux's blooms are a cooler lilac pink, or at least mine was. Another young rose with only one bloom.

Another rose to consider would be Mlle. de Sombreuil, a creamy white tea with a pink glow in the middle (but it looks white from a short distance) which is very healthy and bloomed a lot from the moment it was planted. A very good rose in every way. It's not mature so I don't know how tall it will get. I believe it can be grown as a climber but I'm growing it as a shrub in my row of tea roses.

Baronne Henriette de Snoy

Mlle. de Sombreuil

I know Blumenschmidt (sport of Mlle F Kruger) is not the most popular tea rose, but it's been starting to grow on me. Even its ugly flowers with the green eye and browned petals can be striking. I guess I'm not really selling it. But it's always in bloom, and the bush is compact:

Oh my, Ingrid. You could have really been injured!! What happened to you definitely seems like something that could have happened to me. I have had far too many odd little accidents in life so now I err on the side of caution in a lot of what I do.

Thank you for the information regarding Le Vesuve. My original plan is placement of it near a dry river bed with minimal traffic and a lot of room.

Just as I thought I was sure about Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux being the hands down frontrunner, I see Baronne Henriette Snoy....That bloom is gorgeous, Ingrid!!!

Mlle. Sombreuil is a rose I should have ordered more of........ It has already made it to my favorites list. There is something about Mlle. Sombreuil that just doesn't work in the area. I find it to be breathtakingly beautiful, a classic tea, and maybe too formal or refined for the area.... I just cannot put my finger on why in my mind, it does not work in the area.

Lynn

I suggest Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne: I saw it growing at Morcom Park in Oakland, California and it was a gorgeous pink Tea with starry blossoms with a satiny sheen. Sometimes it shows salmon in the inner petals along with the pink. I admired it everytime I went there that summer. The next spring I was surprised to see it had been moved, although its replacement was a very pretty pure peach colored Tea rose, I should have looked closer at the foliage et cet. I read Gregs description of Comtesse Emmemline de Guigne in the Vintage Gardens Book of Roses and he described how it changes from pink to peach depending on conditions, so it had been there all the time masquerading under a different color. At Morcom Parks Amphitheatre of Roses they keep it at c. 4 feet tall by slightly wider, and it seems perfectly happy.

Rogue Valley sells it.

For years I was underwhelmed by my Duchess de Brabant, I thought it was a bit plain, until my neighbor said look how many roses there are on that plant! It gave me a new appreciation for it. .

Mrs. Dudley Cross is sublime, and those smooth stems are a relief to me as I walk down my sidewalk as I tend to get caught on nearly every rosebush I pass by.

By the way Souvenir de la Malmaison is fully half a Tea rose by parentage, which is why it re-blooms so rapidly and is florifeorus.

Mlle. Cecille Brunner is classed as a Polyantha, yet is fully half a Tea by breeding. Her flowers are pink, petite and perfectly Tea shaped, and the scent is divine. Pretty foliage too. Mine has stayed at c. 4 feet tall for years.

Good luck,

let us know what you choose.

Lux.

Tomorrow morning, I am going to re-measure the space. My thought is that I will need about 7' around to feel safe planting Baronne Henriette de Snoy in the area. This rose is my first choice. If BHdS will not fit, then Rodologue Jules Gravereaux will be my choice.

Thank you all for your input and images!!!

Lynn

I have a very young 'BHdS', and love her foliage. Just a few blooms so far, and they've been very pale... sort of a French White. I'm looking forward to seeing her color range as she matures. I was surprised to read that she stays fairly short since my plant took off (after sitting for a while, as Teas do), and seemed like she might get tall. It's hard to tell, though, at this stage, and I don't mind if she's more moderately sized than I was expecting.

I like 'Rhodologue' in photos, but we haven't met in person.

My BHdS is nearly 30 yo and has never shown signs of growing much taller. I wondered whether the water restrictions during drought years played a part, but other teas such as Mons. Tillier, Anna Olivier and Mrs BR Cant kept on growing taller under the same conditions. Mine are all grafted plants, ( Dr Huey) which may, or may not, have some bearing on the matter. I can tell you, though, that BHdS is easy to strike from cuttings!

Lynn, I am sorry that I cannot show you a photo of my bush because the light is too strong for my iPad camera, but she has bloomed, with no frying, in temps of 40+ C over the last 3 days. Ingrid's photo captures the colour perfectly.. Melodye