Grafting citrus is not done for fun, but because years of scientific trials have shown it is the best way to grow the best in-ground commercial citrus. Perhaps you have been lucky and have some fantastic tasting seedlings. If so, you should indeed propagate them by cuttings or grafting. That is how most of the best varieties have appeared in the past.

Rooted cuttings will not produce significantly different fruit from the mother tree. They will not change their variety. They may grow well, or they may suffer from diseases or deficiencies that the correct choice of rootstock could have prevented. That is why rootstocks are used. To overcome susceptibility to some diseases, to cope better with some types of soil, to match the climate better, or to control or promote growth. So your cuttings in ideal conditions may grow really well and taste great. Or they may dislike their environment and suffer, and as a result not taste quite so perfect. But, to repeat, their variety will still be exactly the same as the original tree.

While we are on this topic I have a question that hopefully someone can shed a little light on.

We all know that P.trifoliate, flying dragon, etc drops its leaves and goes dormant in winter If rootstocks have so much influence on the scions growth how does it not influence the scion to go dormant and also drop its leaves. My understanding is when the leaves are dropped sap and nutrients and not moved up the tree which in theory would not keep a scion actively growing.

Ive always been confused on that.

Mike,

P.t. apparently does influence the scion into deeper (and earlier) dormancy. You'd have to ask a botonist why, but it may have to do with hormones? In fact in the northern edges of the scion's hardiness, they suggest using a 'tall graft' with a lot of P.t. trunk -- maybe 3 or 4 feet. Apparently the cold weather influences the exposed trunk on the P.t. making it go into a deeper dormancy, preventing earlier, vulnerable growth on the scion. Again, I'm not sure, but it's probably hormones that are affected. Not so much sap. The scion certainly needs sap movement to stay alive.

The rootstock does not influence scion leaf drop. That is determined only by the scion itself.

anomolychic94, you have brought up some good points.

Own-root trees will grow to become much bigger than grafted trees, and the central trunk will be much thicker, like you have observed. Rooted cuttings will indeed grow just like trees that were grown from seed, and this is probably the best way to go if you want "monster trees", as you put it. Sometimes rootstock can affect the quality of the fruit, but this is usually a rather minor factor.

I share your same sentiments, i am reluctant to want to have a grafted tree if there is another option. I believe natural is better. If the only fruit trees that are available are all grafted, I at least make sure to get one that is not on dwarfing rootstock. I don't want to set the tree up to struggle for the rest of its life. By the way, own-root trees can live much longer too. The main reason they use grafting is to stunt the tree's growth to divert energy towards fruit production earlier in the tree's life.

"The main reason they use grafting is to stunt the tree's growth to divert energy towards fruit production earlier in the tree's life."

That is simply not correct.

Grafting is not used to make a seedling produce earlier. In fact, it is doubtful that it makes any difference to the time a seedling remains juvenile.

Grafting is used to reproduce a known mature variety. Yes, it will fruit almost immediately - so will propagation by cuttings or layering. It is not because any growth has been stunted.

Hey dave. That make a lot of sense.

How have you been lately? Is that hardy citrus you are growing still doing good? How was the fruit this year?

I still find myself watching Joes video on your yard from years ago. It still inspires me to try some of the plants you grew.

Mike

Mike, the citrumellos died out after the last two winters. Just got too cold for too long. But I have replanted citranges and citrandarins. We'll see what survives! If nothing, I'll just keep my Satsumas in pots. No big deal.

Well thats too bad. Thought you may had a tough one. Ive been kicking around some ideas of planting a few satsuma on the southside of our barn and building something over them for winter. My trees just are producing as well as I hoped being in pots.

I believe that if possible any tree should be grown from seed or from a rooted cuttings. Perhaps grafting a scion of fruiting age to a seedling of its own type will do.

In Cincinnati seed grown citrus is a no go if you want fruit.

I thought that grapefruit was one of the varieties that did poorly on its own roots? Another thing I noticed about those trees (other than the fact that the grapefruit would look great with a tree house in it) is I suspect they might be cold hardier than grafted. I am on the border of 9a and 8b in jacksonville, and I checked temperature records from the time I suspect they were planted until current. They have survived 19 degrees more than once, and showed no damage after 23 degrees unprotected which I lived here for. Funny thing is, im aware of one other citrus tree on my street. Its a lovely 25 foot tall swingle citrumelo. Im guessing the scion froze. With as citrus obsessed as many of the people on this forum are, I wonder why more of us aren't experimenting with seeds to see what we come up with, like the guy who planted 500 Meyers from seed and said they all looked different. I wish he'd paid more attention to what other traits they might have possessed. If more people played with seeds maybe grafting wouldnt be necessary. Or with citrus greening destroying everything,. Maybe there would be some resistant trees if they werent all grafted clones.

Good idea. I eat a lot of citrus that have seeds. I could do that.

'I wonder why more of us aren't experimenting with seeds to see what we come up with'

Because life is too short to wait around for citrus from seed to bloom and bear -- at least for some of us old fogeys. Maybe if I lived in California, but then space is at a premium. In Florida, rootstocks are needed for resistance.

I'm sure the state of Florida and the citrus industry is heavily investing in research on greening and all ways to fight it. And I'll bet you even some of your and my tax dollars are going to it as well.

I know this is a citrus forum, but I wanted to address the grafting comments.

Grafting is used for many reasons depending on the fruit variety, it is not used to create a "frankintree" or "set a tree up to struggle for the rest of it's life". It is not some weird wish to" amputate" and "disfigure". Natural growth is not necessarily better in all situations.

Grafting is a viable useful process done by people who do not wish to change nature but to help. Many of us in colder climes, only get good fruit as a result of the hardiness obtained from the rootstock, as well as the disease resistance. Up here most own root fruit trees perish, whereas grafted ones on hardy rootstock thrive for many years.

Many "frankintrees", are done to save other heirloom varieties so, in a small space, an avid gardener can keep a collection of genetics from going extinct. Or, as people are now wanting to know where their fruit comes from, it allows those with small gardens a chance to grow more than one variety and have fruit for multiple home uses.

My kudos to all those who have experimented with grafting and still are, they have made fruit growing for me possible. Here's to hoping they come up with a citrus able to withstand my cold temps, but I won't hold my breath.

Agreed, and don't forget that sometimes grafting even occurs in nature. Branches and roots from separate trees can fuse by their own volition. Aside from that, it's been done by people for thousands of years.

This link has a nice history and background to grafting if you're interested.

-Tom

Frankenmeyer on volk....