About the one I think is a Loop's Pride, I took a measure immediately,
- The height is around 12.5 cm or 5".
- The striped edges width from the biggest striped leaf is around 3/8".
- The leaves are very stiff and thicker comparing to my other
Trifasciatas, and I think it would snap if I attempt to bend it. I don't
think it is as flexible as my other Trifasciatas or hahniis.
- The leaves are not smooth flat surface, have vertical ridges running the length of the leaf like veins.

To give you a comparison, here are the pics of my past Loop's Pride
that I killed, around it were Jade Dwarf Marginated. It had the clearer
stripes than the 2 new one I have now.

And here is my other Loop's Pride that I planted in Lava Rocks.

Shine Eden,

Loop's Pride is a good ID for the Hahnii, couldn't be anything else. Good ID also for the pinguicula.

I've never owned Forescate but I have some reference material that I'll dig out tomorrow. Meanwhile maybe someone that has it can verify, I think Stush has it or has had it. I'll get back to you on this one.

I'm not convinced the sans you think is Lillian True is that variety, there should be some interior striping but your variegation is confined to the margins. If your plants develop new leaves that have interior stripes that don't match in location on front and reverse, I'd be more inclined to agree. But offhand, given your photos, I'd have to put Lillian True as a doubtful ID for now. My two cents.

Your plants of Loop's Pride and Jade Dwarf Marginated are very well grown! I wish I had access to lava rock in the smaller size pieces that I see in your pics. I've been trying to figure out a way to crush the large size I can get to smaller pieces without pulverizing to dust.

Russ

Thank you so much Russ!

Hope people/members who have Forescate or know about Forescate can tell me if mine are indeed Forescate or another cultivar. And also teach me how to take care and grow it well.

My doubtful Lillian True have a little white band (striping) in the front, but lots more in the back, maybe it's not showing well in the photos, as the photos are originally taken from cell phone, they are quite dark and I had to brighten them up. The yellow stripes are different both in pattern or width from the front and the back.

The Loop's Pride photos that was surrounded by JDM, they were all my past Sans. I killed them all. Nothing was left from that photos except a Loop's Pride's leaf that I tried to propagate. Which is now rooted but yet to give me any pup...

Looking at the photos of my old Sans, I think I know what I did wrong. I think the mixture were porous and easily drain enough.

What I noticed from my Forescate and Golden Hahnii are, they took or absorb water from soil are less than my other Sans. I water my Sans every week, since the soil/mixture/medium are already dried. For these 2 cultivars, the last watering I gave them was 2 weeks ago and I still can see that the soil are not dry yet, not like the other cultivars. Is it normal? They are all planted in Lava Rocks.

Like I told Barbmock, I wouldn't mind sending you my Jaboa, Russ... But since we live in different country, I think sending a plant to US from my country might be a problem...

I bought lava rocks in a bag with the size just like that, I don't know how they crushed them into smaller size...

Btw, does Hahnii Siebert can produces Golden Hahnii and Solid Gold? I never seen Hahnii Siebert here... Love to have one...

Shine Eden, if your possible Lillian True has yellow stripes that are different in front and back, then it's likely Lillian True. I couldn't see that in your pictures.

Interesting that you are rooting a Loop's Pride leaf left over from all the sans that died. You won't get a Loop's Pride from that leaf, it will produce another variety called Hahnii Malachite. It is similar to Loop's but overall size is smaller, leaves are more narrow, and you'll be able to feel a raised 'keel' on the back of the leaf where it's slightly folded. Leaves are thick and dark green with some banding, or spotted where the banding should be. The few Malachite's I've seen had the spotting rather than banding. It's a nice cultivar you will enjoy growing. Loop's sometimes offsets Malachite, leaf cuttings of Malachite produce more Malachite's.

Not a problem in the inability to trade from your country. I suppose it depends on how technical the laws and inspectors are in various countries.

Seibert produces offsets of Seibert but a plant I had years ago also produced several plants identical to Solid Gold. This was a long time ago but I'm pretty sure it also produced a Golden Hahnii or two.

Chahinian's page on Seibert in his book The Trifasciata Varieties says the variety was found by a James Seibert of Dallas Center, Iowa, but he doesn't say from what what variety it originated. But my Seibert producing Solid Gold makes me certain that it has a 'gold gene' in it's heritage.

Russ

Shine Eden, Your Forescate looks more true than mine does. It is very fussy and must be kept warm. Winter time is a killer for me. Had for several years and can not produce a pup or the plant to flourish.

@Russ,

I'll take more photos of the Lillian True and post them here...

@Stush,

Thank you for confirming my Forescate! I'm terribly sorry Stush, I don't quite get what you mean by "more true" than yours...

Did you keep your Forescate under lights or in the shade? I read that Forescate is fussy, so I keep mine under lights, I'm afraid I might've burned them if I keep them under shade/plastic roof. One of the Forescate I bought have the evidence of flowered before, a dried flower spike. I wonder if it will bloom again or will it grow more leaves?

My Forescate is old and slow to produce new leaves and takes more green on with age. So I don't have that clear yellow center. I keep my is part shade with morning sun. In winter it is in my tank keeping warm. Maybe this is the year it breaks out.

Shine Eden and Russ, this is my hahnii Seibert and golden hahnii. Originally when I got them I thought the center plant was an all green hahnii but I can see now that the center leaf is stretched out that it is also Seibert. There was also a hahnii solid gold growing off of the Golden hahnii but it did not make it.

This was the hahnii solid gold.

Thanks for these photos, akrrm. Your Seibert is similar to mine. Yellow striations on the one I lost years ago were a bit brighter, that's the one that produced Solid Gold offsets and perhaps Golden Hahnii. My present Seibert hasn't produced those odd offsets but is showing a couple of offsets that look like they're going to be green. Hopefully they're at least Seibert's rather than normal Hahnii's.

Maybe it's the camera, but those Solid Gold Hahnii's look very deep yellow. The color in the ones I had was very light with no green in the leaf centers, and the most narrow of green margins.

Russ

Shine Eden,

The first picture you started with in this thread MIGHT be S. T. L. 'Compacta'. You may have to wait until a few more growths show up to see how they develop. 'Lillian True' began as a sport of ''Compacta' showing beautiful contrasting yellow stripes. 'Compacta' has no, or very few, stripes. The very dark green on both these varieties is gorgeous, but when it is contrasted with the stripes of 'Lillian True' some people have been known to go into uncontrollable jerking and sobbing with unspeakable joy. I post here good photos of 'Compacta' and Lillian True for comparison.

I think your picture of 'Forescate' is correct. 'Golden Hahnii' is the Hahnii version of 'Forescate. Young leaves of 'Forescate' start out as light green, but as they mature, the centers "yellow-up". Below are 2 pictures of 'Forescate' from my collection.

Mike, Those normal green stalks of green mixed in with your Forescate, are they reversed? Do they need removed? Or are they still producing the same offspring?

Wonderful sans as always Mike L!!

@Akrrm,

Yours are lovely! what a unique Hahni that can produce 3 varieties... Love to have Siebert sometime, if I managed to find one here... :)

@mlaforet,

Mike, what a stunning Sans you have!!! Love them!!! Will write later...

As promised, here are more photos of what I think are Lillian true, brighten the photos, hope will show their stripes better

The Front of plant 1

Here is my other Forescate that I think has some years ahead before I bought it and I found out have the evidence of flowered before.

@Mlaforet05,

Mike, both your Compacta and Lillian True are beautiful! I think it will took many-many years for my sans to fully grown and full like yours.

I love both your Compacta and Lillian True. From your photos, seems like Lillian True have darker green than Compacta, isn't it?

One of the reason I'm dying to have Lillian True is that I love the very deep dark green contrasted with the yellow stripes. I love really dark green almost black Sans, if not the other end, heavily yellow Sans like Forescate or Golden Hahnii.

Your Forescate is also very breathtaking! How do you grow them so well? Love to learn how to grow Forescate so well like yours! Does it like a crowded pot? Do the pots I planted them too big or too small? Do you put them under florescent lights or under shade?

Love to hear more from you...

Shine Eden, now that you've posted these new pics, I don't think your sans are Lillian True. There are no interior stripes, only on or near the margins. I've seen Compacta with the extra stripes near the margin, and I agree with Mike that your plants are probably Compacta.

Below is a pic of a Compacta, some leaves show the extra stripe near the margins.

Question... you can see here the brighter yellow or yellow-green color bandings within the yellow border. These correspond to the green bandings of the interior, but they are masked by the overall dark green of the interior in Compacta. Does your plant have these brighter bandings in the yellow margins?? If so, I think that would confirm the ID of Compacta.

Russ

Russ

Pic didn't take initially, here it is.

Russ

I can't help with the ID but all these pictures are making me drool but I must be good and save up for a new fridge. Mine died yesterday so no new plants for me for a LOOOONG while. :/

Mentha, if you can afford postage some of us might be able to provide some new plants. But yeah, a new fridge is a major hit to the budget!! It sure picked a bad time to crash with spring and 'new plants/trading' season coming on.

Russ

Thank you Russ!!

I think they have brighter yellow or yellow-green color bandings within the yellow border. Lillan True don't have this kind of banding?

The Compacta, plant #2 that I try to propagate in water, already rooted 4 days ago! I'm so happy and excited! I wonder what it will produce... Is it going to be true to type or plain laurentii?

Here is the photos

2 days ago my neighbor gave me this Sans - a mom and a big pup, I divided them and planted them in separated pots. I still dream/wish for a Lillian True, but I suspect they are Compacta too.

Have very dark green color, back leaves have more banding than the front leaves. So some banding in the back doesn't show in the front. The left one is the Momma and the right one is the pup. The plant are quite tall, maybe as tall as regular Laurentii.

I like those sans. Too tall for me to properly take care of. I don't have any tall trifasciata. I do miss them.

Stush

Shine,

Whatever they are, they are just beautiful! I think these last two look like Lillian True.

@Stush,

I think I like the extreme side, I either like tall trifasciata or small hahnii. I don't have any sans that in between. Hmmm... Is Brazillian Moonshine a mid size Sans? If so, it means I have 1... Lol...

@barbmock,

Thank you... It so happens I spotted the Sans. My neighbor literally don't really care about them. Well... somebody's junk might be others treasure they said... :)

I hope they are Lillian True. If they are, my quest of finding Lillian True is finally over. If not, I'll still searching for one.

And if they are Compacta again, well, I like them too. Love the deep green color and the bright yellow stripes as well...

Need Russ & Mike's expertise in confirming what they really are... :) Hopefully they'll see this thread & post.

Shine,

I own Futura 'Asahi' which I believe is the most top pick of my collection. Nice size and many leaves. As well a Moonshine, which I keep with extra bandings, as well as Forescate if it would only grow for me. As well as Gold Flame which sometimes looks a lot like Kristi. And I love my small growing Gold Hahnii and Streaker which also produced Solid Gold pup but later greened out. No two leaves alike on Streaker. My tall growing ones took too much room and trouble for me to grow them properly. I gave them away but now I have new ones to take their place but are slow growing. I think once you find these futura size Sans, you will love them.

Stush

Stush,

All my Forescate also do not do anything, just sitting in the pots. I do not notice any growth. I think they are in an ideal temperature for growing, with 25-30 degree Celsius, adequate light. But they just decide to do nothing. No new leaf growth, no pups, no rot, just nothing...

Bad news from my Loop's Prides, suddenly both of them rotting from the inside crown... Had to separated the pups to save it. I don't know what's going on and why. The inside leaves have some whittish things at the base. I don't think the momma can survive.I have taken them out of the pot and let them dry for 3 days now, but the rotting didn't stop!

Loop's Pride is my fav Sans... I think I have to buy the replacement soon...

Shine sorry to hear about your Loop's pride. It's very frustrating when they rot when you think you've done everything right. I hope you can find a replacement soon.

Nice gift Shine! My Compacta doesn't look anything like those two, just yellow borders (that look gorgeous with the sun behind them). Sorry about Loop's Pride, that's the hearbreak of being a gardener, eh? Stush, I have the opposite situation, I'm short on surfaces to place plants and the tall, floor plants work in my home better, plus I like the visual impact of the sheer size of them (plant cathedrals, LOL).

Thanks Akrrm, Next Obsession & Stush

This is the 2nd time with Loop's Pride. The first time I think I over watered it, so I corrected it this time. Both plants, 1 in hydrogel & 1 in lava rocks, are the same rot from crown. The worst one is the one in lava rocks. The one in hydrogel did grow for sometimes, roots growing nicely, can see them. Suddenly out just rot... sigh...

@Stush,

Thanks for the tips! I'm going to get/order the sulfur dust right away, hope it will arrive soon... They are getting worst by day, even out of soil in air-dried condition...

Rot is very confounding, it sometimes continues in spite of all efforts to stop it. Shine, where are you getting your Loop's Pride's. Are you ordering from a European source?

Russ

I sent the photos of the rotted Loop's Pride to the shop I bought them from. He said the cause of rot is fungus from the whittish things at the base. 1 of them are surely a goner, it smells terrible...

Russ, I did not order from Europe. I bought Loop's Pride locally. In Indonesia.

Thanks Shine. You are very lucky to find such uncommon sans locally.

Russ