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Seed stratification-acid pretreatment scheme

I was reading an article that specified a seed stratification scheme requiring a 10 minute soak in a 90% sulfuric acid solution. I don't have any sulfuric acid and I'm wondering if phosphoric, citric, acetic, hydrochloric or other acid could be used instead?

This article specified a 90% solution but most readily available acids are at a weaker concentration. I am assuming that with, for example, a 10% solution, One would adjust by using a proportionately longer time?

Also, after the acid bath, should the seeds be neutralized (say, with baking soda) before the cold stratification stage?

Thanks


Comments (4)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Why bother? I have been growing from seed (everything from trees to vegetables) for over 30 years and have never used hydrogen peroxide, acids, lemon juice, gibberellins, auxins, colchicine or any of these things. I accept that professional nurseries may well have reasons for doing this but afaik, there is really no need whatsoever, especially if we are following a stratification regime based on temperature. This sort of thing complicates the issue. What, incidentally, are you growing which requires these solutions and methodologies?

    It is getting late in the season to be attempting germination, especially if a stratification regime is required.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Why bother? Because it's necessary? Because I'd prefer to succeed than fail? Because I want to increase the germination rate?

    > I have been growing from seed (everything from trees to vegetables) for over 30 years
    Me too

    > ...have never used hydrogen peroxide, acids, lemon juice, gibberellins, auxins, colchicine or any of these things.
    Me either.
    ...but then I've never had to. Apparently I've never grown anything that requires any sort of special treatment.

    I've never put seeds in the fire either (except for when I plan to eat them!) but if I decided to grow from seed, Jack Pine, for example, I'd know that fire exposure is required and I just might seek the input from others that know more than I and have had experience having done this. (See serotiny)

    I don't know this for a fact but my hunch is that the acid pretreatment is intended to simulate the passage of a seed through the digest tract of a bird or other critter. (This is one reason why I ask why sulfuric acid is specified since, to the best of my knowledge, gastric juices are usually (or always?) hydrochloric acid).

    "Complete germination often takes 2 years. Common Elderberry seeds require pretreatment for good germination during the first year (Worley and Ni xon, 1974). Several pretreatment schemes have been described in scientific literature. One pretreatment scheme involves scarification with sulfuric acid for 10–20 minutes, rinsing, and cold stratifying (2–4 o C) for 60 days..."

    excerpted from:
    http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/mipmctn10584.pdf

    Because forum contributors (too) often tend to make suggestions or answer some alternate question that wasn't asked rather than the one that was, I'm guessing there's a likelihood that this post might receive responses like "Why are you bothering with seeds?", "Why don't you just use cuttings?",
    "It's easier to grow Elderberry from cuttings or live stakes".

    That's correct. I know this. Because I was able to obtain seed and but don't have access to a bush from where I could get cuttings. If you do have access to Elderberry plants (preferably Sambucus canadensis or Sambucus nigra) and live nearby (Cleveland Ohio area) or would be wiling to send me some cuttings or stakes (of course I'll pay shipping) I'd love to hear from you. Please contact me.

  • 10 years ago

    Um, well that told me then. But hey, if you are keen enough to use a specific and precise germination regime, then surely you would be following the suggested method and not guessing about relative strengths and times...and this is where I wondered just how much experience you had. As a rule, I try to avoid unnecessary complications, particularly when making suggestions to people with no context (ie. knowledge of prior experience) and I did ask exactly what you were growing which required a specific method. But yep...one of the downsides of the interweb.;

  • 10 years ago

    I certainly agree about "avoid(ing) unnecessary complications" but I thought that's what I was doing: going with flow, using what one has. It isn't something everyone has in their pantry and it's not as though one can simply knock on the neighbor's door to borrow a cup of "90% Sulfuric Acid" (actually just an ounce would do). The fact that the particular project in the documents I cited specified "10 min 90% Sulfuric Acid" does not mean (I wouldn't think, that) that's the only possible option. It's what they had and what was used but perhaps not necessarily all that could've been used.

    Obviously, not in all cases and, of course, it depends on the application but in some cases acid is acid is acid. As with cooking, substitution can be made. Might "10 min 90% hydrochloric acid", "20 min 45% Sulfuric Acid" or "a while in 7% acetic Acid" serve as well?

    However, the acid pretreatment itself sounded to me more a "necessary complication". If one were to avoid this, it seems it would be as well to avoid attempting to grow Elderberry from seed, entirely.

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