You need better lighting- shop for some decent HO T5's or even regular T5's and you will have a far better experience.

"65w GE plant light"

That's an incandescent bulb which is bad for three reasons:

1. too dim

2. too electrically inefficient

3. rich in far red light which increases internode length

On the positive side, I suspect that it has Neodymium or Didymium glass that removes light with a wavelength near 590 nm. There is some evidence that this wavelength is bad for plants, so I am guessing that this bulb is slightly better than a regular 65w incandescent bulb.

I use T5 fluorescent lights(Agrobrite or Jump Start). They work great. I'll never grow a garden indoors, but I do use it for starting plants. I've grown basil from seed and now have an established plant that's at least a foot tall on the windowsill. I have tomato and pepper plants going now as well.

A few things:

• The light needs to be AT MOST a few inches away from the seedlings or plant. Seedlings also should get a good 14 hours of light. That leggy growth is because they are reaching for more light and aren't getting enough.
• To help the seeds germinate, you can cover the pot you're starting them in with saran wrap, a rubberband to hold it in place, and poke holes in the top. Once the seed germinates, remove the plastic.
• These lights do give off a decent amount of heat(especially the Agrobrite), which will cause the plants to dry out quicker when the light is still close to the soil level. You need to stay on top of the watering, but don't overwater. Being that they are indoors, there won't be any wind to help remove moisture( you can use a fan, it will help the plants become sturdier too).
• The container you use will make a big difference. You can start the seedlings in small containers, but bigger plants need bigger containers. Tomatoes get several feet tall, it varies with variety. You could probably get away with a 5 gal container(would probably hinder results), but many will tell you it should be at least a 10 gal for tomatoes. Again it depends on the variety. Cucumbers do come in bush varieties, so you can save a little room there.

I can't offer much more advice from here, because I've never done an indoor garden. These are just some basics to get you started. Check through some more of the Indoor Gardening forums. Looks like there are a bunch, including 1 on growing herbs.

Hey, I had the same problem after moving into my new little apartment. The place is beautiful but I wanted to add some plant life to help brighten it up. I used to grow spices which were practical and had a great smell to them but my new place doesn't get nearly enough sunlight to support them. I looked into grow lights but they were either too big or ugly to use in my home.

However I found a grow light online called the Aspect which is apparently designed for this kind of stuff. With this light I've been able to grow some spices as well as a grapevine and a pomegranate bush in my little apartment and it looks awesome. I always get compliments when company is over. Check it out and see what you think. www.stsln.com/product/aspect/

"Aspect"

$149.99 for a 20 watt white LED lamp is a gyp. The power spectral density chart for that lamp is almost the same as for most daylight LED bulbs sold for household lighting. Last Sunday, at Menards, I bought a 4-pack of Green Watt 5000K LED BR30 flood light bulbs for $9.99. Each bulb is 8 watts and 650 lumens. The OP could put them in a track light or whatever.

Hey, that is not entirely true,
you are
comparing apples and oranges. I did plenty of research before
buying the Aspect
due to the price tag and found that no other LED light had
enough light in the
red part of the spectrum. I was going to go with a traditional
LED red
and blue light, but found this instead. This is not an average
LED light bulb,
you are paying a premium for the correct spectrum of light
needed for plant
growth. If your logic
was correct, no
one would be using ugly red and blue LEDs or High Pressure
Sodium lights,
everyone would switch to these cheaper, low wattage lights. Red
and blue lights
work since they have peaks of light at 450nm and 660nm. It is
also important to
have a small amount of light into the 740nm range as well. This spectrum is perfect
since it adds a
small amount of green to make the light white.

If you check the spectrum of
your light bulbs,
it will have nearly no light near the 660nm range and absolutely
nothing in the
740nm range. Just Google
LED 5000k
spectrum and compare them with the aspect. Your bulbs will have a huge
peak at the 450nm
range, which is great for starting plants from seed, but a very
poor ratio of
450 to 660nm, this will kill your plants. You can find this
information on
nearly any grow light website. Just check out other LED grow
lights, they
always have a small amount of blue (450nm) and a huge peak of
red (660nm),
normally a 1 to 4 ratio of blue to red.
If a regular LED light bulb would work, $1000 - $2000 LED
grow lights
would not exist. People would line their greenhouses with the
cheapest bulbs
possible.

"This spectrum is perfect since it adds a small amount of green to make the light white."

Wrong. This is the Aspect power spectral density chart:

http://stsln.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Aspect-Light-Spectrum.jpg

and that is NOT "a small amount of green."

"no other LED light had enough light in the red part of the spectrum"

These are power spectral density charts for typical LED bulbs (A19) for household lighting:

http://www.designingwithleds.com/light-spectrum-charts-data/#Bulb

Although it is true that these lights peak at near 610 nm versus 650 for the Aspect, the photosynthetic efficiencies of 610nm light is about 95% that of 650nm light and the extra far red light in Aspect will reduce active phytochrome. And, Aspect is not forthright with lumen or par efficiency information.

Again, I think you are mistaken and are looking at the wrong data.


First. The amount of green you see is very small as compared to what you
are using. Probably half the amount. Green is critical to make white
light, which is the entire point of the Aspect, to be white and not
red/blue/purple. You need to have some green, and they hardly use any.


You did not find the accurate spectrum for your bulbs. You said 5000k,
but showed charts for 3000k and 4000k. 5000k is very heavy in
blue/green/yellow. It has nearly zero 660nm red, check out what BML
lighting makes since they have a 5000k light spectrum, the spectrum is
below:


http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-pktq5q/qzuvsqy/products/107/images/398/BML_5000K_Chart__29253.1389978494.1280.1280.jpg?c=2


the site for more information.
http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/led-light-bar-5000k-cool-white/


it is true, a 3000k led is closer to the correct light ratio, but still
it is very far off from being effective. Not even worth comparing since
close is not going to grow a plant. You need certain ratios to have the
best plant growth; you can not just focus on 610nm since 660nm is a
different type of chlorophyll which serves an entirely different purpose
in the plant. Just because it is hard for the plant to absorb, you do
not ignore it, you need to add much more red light to make up for the
poor absorption. If you lack that ratio, you will have deformed and
unhealthy plants. Plants need about 4x as much red as the blue
spectrum, which the aspect hits pretty close. All of the LEDs you
showed me are way off on that ratio, more like 2 - 4 times as much blue
as red. All of your plants that are grown under these lights will stay
very short and stubby. This is why I bought their light, the only other
solution was a red/blue LED light since HID/HPS was out of the question
in the living room.


As for the far red, you are very mistaken, i don't know where you got
that information.

Check out what the top 5 LED grow lights are doing with 720nm and 740nm,
they use a lot of it in their lights. They even have LEDs up to 760nm.

http://store.advancedledlights.com/3w-led-grow-lights/new-diamond-series-xml-10w-cree-xml/


Why? because, 700+nm far red has some very unique aspects as to how
they interact with plants. First, it can be used as part of the Emerson
Effect. Secondly, the sole photoreceptor of chlorophyll F peaks very
near this range (722 if i remember the article correct) and was only
discovered a couple of years ago (2010).


Check all of the other top companies, they will use LEDs in the far red
section. In nature, the sun puts out a lot of far red (700+nm) you
can't say that the little bit of far red in the aspect is going to
prevent growth in plants. I doubt they will be making these lights if
they did not work, and I have had great results so far.


As for the information on lumens and par, I do not know what to tell
you. I am sure they have the information but just did not want to add it.


I have done plenty
of research, looked at every top LED company before I spent a penny on a
light, and since the Aspect was the only white led on the market, i went
with them. The spectrum are similar to the top companies who use
red/blue lights, they just focused on indoor growth, so they use less
red and more green to make a nice white light. You can not argue that
your $9 bulbs are better than all of these LED companies who are making
grow lights. Your $9 bulbs are also make in china and will probably
fail in under 10,000 hours. I can't tell you how many LED bulbs from
ebay stopped working after a few months. The aspect was made by the
owners in the United States, so the cost will be much higher. I am fine
with paying more if I know it was made in America with higher quality
parts since I get to support an American job and get a better product
that last longer.


I suggest you find some studies from NASA or universities that talk
about the ratios of light. Plenty of studies were done that show that
you need to focus on 660, otherwise no one would spend the money to
develop a light that is heavy in 660nm. You can go about using your low
wattage, 5000k lights, but they won't support plant life. I want a
light that will keep my plants alive.


Thanks for the discussion, I had to look up a bunch of old bookmarks
from before I bought the Aspect for information. Plenty of information
on the net, plenty of studies, but none of them line up with what you
are claiming.

I understand not everyone has $150 to
spend on a plant grow light and that other solutions
exist on the market, but this product suits my needs and I feel it
was the best, long term investment I could make to accomplish my
goals. Ultimately, the quality of my plants speak for themselves and I am very happy with the investment I made.

And come on... "Your usage of the word 'need' is that of a schizophrenic". I used the word three times, and that is a very immature way to respond. We're adults here, thankfully neither of us schizophrenic. I am trying to share knowledge with you and others reading this,
but you shoot down what I say without providing evidence to your
claims. I am just reporting to you what other companies and
various studies done by universities and NASA are saying. The LED
grow light market is currently worth $395 million (2014) and is
forecast to reach $1.8 billion by 2021. If what you are saying is
correct, that number would be significantly smaller.
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/10/29/781299/10154495/en/LED-Grow-Light-Module-Market-at-395-Million-in-2014-Are-Forecast-To-Reach-1-8-Billion-by-2021-MarketResearchReports-Biz.html

As for "need", yes, you need a ratio that has significantly more red
(660) than blue (450). Here are an abundant amount of studies that talk about
the need for that ratio and the usefulness of 24% or less of green
(where more than 24% green causes a negative effect).

- The National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s (NASA)
Biological Sciences research group has concluded that light sources
consisting of more than 50% green cause reductions in plant growth,
whereas combinations including up to 24% green enhance growth for
some species. These used red/blue led lights with added green. -
http://www.actahort.org/books/711/711_11.htm
---- A 2nd study that supports NASA's results. They tested lights
that had 0%, 24%, 86%, and 51% green light. 24% did the best.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/39/7/1617
---- A 3rd study that shows the addition of a small amount of far
red AND the addition of green was useful.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/43/7/1951

-A paper that talks about the importance of 450nm light and 660nm
light. it shows that 660nm contributes to the plant photosynthesis.
http://www.actahort.org/books/440/440_20.htm
-A study that talks about the ratio of red/blue being 4/1 along with
the addition of green and the effects.
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/45/12/1870.short

-Research done by one of the top grow light companies, showing the
need for 660nm light. These lights sell for much more than the
Asepct. "The 624nm region has the highest photosynthetic relative
quantum yield for a range of plants. At the same time, its action on
red-absorbing phytochrome is considerably weaker compared to that of
660 nm red light and can be used to balance the phytochrome
equilibrium towards lower values (closer to those of daylight) than
those achievable with 660 nm red light, especially when used
together with 730 nm red light."
https://www.illumitex.com/impacts-colored-light-plants/
---- You can see the spectrum of light this company uses, clearly
they support the idea of the 1-4 ratio of light needed for optimal
plant growth.
https://www.illumitex.com/full-spectrum-light-plant-growth/

For the far red, no, a regular incandescent bulb has too much far
red and IR ways, it will kill the plants. Once you start going
above 750nm you lose the Pfr to Pr conversion and start in to
phytochrome mutation not manipulation in plant growth. You need
only a little for the Emerson effect to work.

Here are an abundance of studies to get you started on.
http://microbiologyprocesses.blogspot.com/2011/12/photosystem-i-ii-red-drop-effect.html
http://jgp.rupress.org/content/16/2/191.full.pdf

http://www.life.illinois.edu/govindjee/Electronic%20Publications/1963/1963_Gov.pdf

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/39/1/10.full.pdf

Finally, the cheap Chinese LED you found. Yes, the LED is $5 but
the quality could be anything. My experience is buying Chinese tech products has resulted in a total waste of my time and money. Even if the LED works, you will need to add a heatsink,
power supply, optics, ect. Then you need to make a body for the
light, buy 15 feet of wire, buy a power cord, and learn basic
electronics to build the entire light. Good luck finding quality parts to power that light for under $100,
then the question is, what is your time worth? Do you claim to know
what parts you need already, how to rate a heatsink, and have the
time to research and buy all of this?

Anyway, I want to reiterate....I understand that not everyone has $150, but I do, and I invested it in an LED grow light that would not only grow my plants indoors but look great doing it. My plants and home speak for themselves...a worthy investment.

Have a nice day.
-Paul

"Any 20 watt bulb that is three times more electrically efficient than Aspect will grow plants better than Aspect."

Correction, my bad. I should have said, "Except for some minor exceptions, any 20 watt bulb that puts out three times the light energy, within the PAR spectrum, that Aspect does, will grow plants better, based on dry weight.

The "minor exception" is light that is predominantly yellow, 585 to 595 nm, e.g., low pressure sodium or a yellow LED. See

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3698430/fyi-evidence-that-yellow-light-585-595nm-is-bad-for-plants .

And, that brings me to another point. Aspect has a substantial amount of light between 585 to 595 nm, therefore it is not optimal.

Regarding the Emerson Enhancement Effect, I used to be a proponent until I performed this experiment under the user name struwwelpeter:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2005610/how-to-easily-supplement-fluorescent-with-incandescent-light?n=47

As you can see, there was no difference between tomato plants grown under Sylvania Grolux fluorescent with and without added incandescent light (far red).

In reading your post, the commonplace of indoor gardening failing was all too real. Often times excessive heat would dry out the soil. Finding solutions that didn't look hideous were non existant. We just released our product specifically for the indoor gardener with minimal space and they begin shipping in a couple weeks!! Come take a look at us. http://ledhabitats.com/products.html. Feel free to message me back if you have any questions.

It's possible. Not many plants are cost effective though. Look at Mars Hydro 300 W.