Winter Park where? FL?

Winter Park, CO

Will this project require financing? I ask because I'd be awfully surprised if the bank would finance half a project.

$40K for permits?!? That's only 100 times (yes, one hundred) what our permit was in SC. Wow.

Anyway, costs are really hard to determine without having the lot looked at by the people doing the work. Digging a foundation could be a one day job, or it could involve blasting and all sorts of other issues. There can be a wide range of costs developing the lot, from clearing to driveway to septic. Steep lots add all sorts of problems and costs.

It's pretty hard to compare, but our house is 1444 square feet on a walk-out basement. We were quoted about $100K for a finished shell. The part that's hard to compare is 1) We built ICF; not the cheapest route, and 2) We built in SC, which is probably cheaper than CO, although I have no way to compare. That quote was from an expensive custom builder, though. Ultimately, I did nearly everything myself, as we couldn't afford $100K for just a shell, and that would have been all builder grade, such as siding, roofing, and windows. Instead, we were able to use Nichiha siding, Marvin windows, and a metal roof.

Another thing you may have to look into is whether your local building department will allow you to finish it over an extended period of time. Even our lax local office requires 'some kind of progress' every six months. Finishing the inside costs $$$, even DIY, and if you spend all of your money on the shell, how long before you can afford to finish the inside? You'll probably have trouble getting insurance as well. Our insurance only covered 1 year under construction.

Thanks for the reply. Although I haven't actually checked with the building department, I know a few people in Winter Park which have done something similar. And, there's even a builder that caters to that sort of thing. That builder, however, wants $110/sf for just the shell (even for basement sf), so we won't be using him.

100k seems very reasonable. After permits, that's about all we'll have left. Maybe it can work. I'll just have to talk to more builders.....and of course, ok it with the building department. I hadn't even thought of the insurance issue.

To answer the questions from above, no, we won't be using financing. And I agree that a bank would not go for that deal.

I hope I didn't come across as too negative- I built my own house pretty much single-handed, so I'm a big fan of DIY. Just trying to point out some potential issues before you get into it.

The builder told you how much your idea will cost. Be realistic here. You'll use up ALL of your budget on the shell. And then won't have anything left to finish this moneypit. You won't be able to live in it, and the permits will expire before you can finish it.

You need double your budget, which means you need a bank involved. Which also means that you'll have a deadline from them to deal with, as well as quality control to satisfy. Not to mention appraisal demands to satisfy.

Either build well less than half the square footage as an all cash build cabin, or start talking to banks about their requirements.

Even if you can get it built for $66 a square foot, like Sophie said, that still leaves you with just a shell. Additionally, what if something goes wrong? What if once you start digging, you find out you need to do more with the land to get it so it's ready to build for example? Any time you build you should have a 15-20% contingency, so the $100,000 you think you have left really is only $80,000.

Additionally, you say you can handle the interior over time. How will you pay for materials, etc?

Ok, let's look at some options. You already have the land and the cheapest lot listed in WP proper is $129,900. So assuming your lot is paid for, you've got a good deal of equity, plus another 150,000. You really might want to consider financing,. You probably would need to finish the main floor, but could use less expensive finishes you can relplace down the road. Even with an 100,000 -150,000 loan, I think you probably could do it and be able to live in it right away. Finish the basement at your leisure

yeah, understand the permits and fees -- we're also building in a resort area in NW Co.

You need to be rational about this. You are in the higher expense area.

Foundation:

Clearing, staking- surveying, gravel driveway, electrical temp with the fee, excavating, footers, rough plumbers, 4" drain tiles, basin, sump, insulation under the slab?, stepped walls, water proofing, steel I beam with jacks, pour walls, pour floor, backfill for 1500 sq ft - you expect this for $30k with overhead and profit. And all of that with no reserves, high risk.... I think GCs will quickly walk away.

You need to have a floor plan and bid the project out to see if this feasible. Also see if you can get contractors to actually bid on this. In the hot season. I would have no clue what is charged for framing and siding in your area.

Sorry, but no.

Best way to estimate cost is to get plans and bid each job out. Worst way: ask the internet. ;)

I'd be thinking about designing a home that could be built in two stages-- planning in advance for an addition. A basic <1000 sqft house now that might be accomplished within your budget, then a subsequent ~doubling that can be done as you have time/money. Overall cost would be slightly higher, but you'd have much lower risk and a place to live in the meantime. I'd keep the banks out of the picture if at all possible, they add an order of magnitude of complexity and stress to the process. If you can build without one you will probably be much happier!

Thanks to everyone for their comments. It's all very helpful. This is a minefield and navigating through it is very difficult.

In many areas, one is expected to complete construction in a reasonable period of time as specified by the permit. Further, you typically cannot occupy the house unless certain major components of construction are finished to make it habitable. And if you are not occupying it, there can be complications with getting it insured beyond the initial construction period. You need to get these aspects researched fully before you step into the maelstrom.

I'm a DIY'er (engineering degree) who has done extensive remodeling of homes we have lived in. Kitchens, bathrooms, all gutted to the studs.

First off, all locales I've lived in, the permits are good for one year.

Secondly, I think you're taking on a full time job, and it's going to get 'old' after a while. An endless stream of work. What if you get hurt?

You will need utilities to work on the home - water, sewer, electrical, gas, etc.

Additionally HVAC if you want a comfortable working environment.

IMO you are taking on way too much work, and underestimating what it will take to get the home 'really done'.

You will have to check with your local building department about how long the permit is good for. Here, as long as you can show 'progress', you can take as long as you want. I know one couple that is over 6 years in, and their permit is still active. I was under permit for almost 4 years, although I didn't break ground right away. There were a bunch of rule changes I wanted to get ahead of. Here, once you pull the permit, you are grandfathered in against further code changes.

It is a huge job, though. I spent about 3-1/2 years working 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, building from the ground up. The interior was probably about 1-1/2 years of that.

mushcreek, geoffrey_b, and other DIYs,

Any idea how would it take to install engineered wood floors (click/lock type) and paint a house of this size?

DH and I installed click lock engineered hardwood flooring in all 3 bedrooms, about 500 sq ft, in 1 day. We had already done the living/dining and hallway so had the process down. The colors in the birch wood varied between dark and light so plank selection slowed us down significantly!

I can usually paint an average size room in a couple hours if the room is empty, and preferably before the flooring is down. The trim is the slow part. In our new house, I painted the walls first, fit and painted the trim, installed it, and then touched it up. One person could easily spend 2-3 weeks painting the interior, depending upon detail and degree of difficulty. In a rental house with little trim, it could be knocked out in a few days. The flooring shouldn't take more than 3-4 days, again, depending upon the complexity, and how much prep work their is. If the floor needs leveling and sanding before hand, that adds to the time and cost. I used reclaimed flooring, had to do some sanding of the subfloor, nailed it, and put 5 coats of Waterlox, so our floors took more like a month.

Thanks sis33 and mushcreek for replying. This is for a new home and there will be minimum trim.

For a new home: If you want the warranty you have to follow the manufacturers directions. Most important the home must not have excessive moisture. The concrete (basement), drywall mud, etc should all be cured. You need to have the correct subfloor material - for your joist size and spacing - there are different grades of OSB / plywood. The home must have the HVAC operational, at the normal temps you maintain. The subfloor shoud be perfectly flat no bumps / screws / lippage. Follow the directions for the underlayment.

I would have the boxes open, for at least a week or two for the flooring to be the same humidity as the home.

Laying it, is nothing! It's all prep.

Thanks geoffrey_b for the tips.

The instructions included with our flooring stated that boxes should not be opened prior to installation. This was engineered, click lock flooring. I know that solid wood should be acclimated.

Let me give you some numbers to beat

Survey - $1,500

Driveway Gravel - $1,000

Plan - $2,000

Silk Fence - $1,500

Excavation - $2,500

Foundation - $30,000

Foundation waterproofing - $2,000

Backfill - $2,000
Framing - $20,000
Lumber - $20,000

House Rough trim - $3,000
Windows - $6,000
Roof - $10,000
Siding - $ 20,000
Doors - $6,000 (including garage and front, rear )
Drywall - $12,000
HVAC - $ 15,000
Flooring - $10,000
Appliances - $7,000
Interior Trim - $4,000
Paint (interior/exterior) - $9,000
Cabinets - $8,000
Countertop - $ 5,000
Plumbing - $ 15,000

Finish plumbing (tubs, cabinets etc) - $5,000
Electrical - $9,000
Driveway - $0 ?
Insulation - $ 7,000

Lights- $5k

Permits - $40,000

Hookup fees-electrical temp/ perm/sewers/water/NG?

Fireplace-? ( - $3,000)

Porches-?

Staircase-?

GC overhead (min: - $25,000)

Architect overhead (min: - $25,000)

Feel free to tell me if I overstated/understated some numbers. You want it at $59/sq ft? Tell me the numbers you are going to beat.... (consumer pricing)

Oh and don't forget your 7.65% tax rate. Insurance 7k, etc. This is what I tell people who wants to build the house for a $100k.

I'm in MD and pour foundation for a small basement and a 2-car garage is also around $30,000.
Septic is $15,000-18,000. We have to use expensive type due to silly requirement.
Well is $8,000-10,000.
Public water and sewer hookup instead of well and septic is around $15,000.
Also if it hits huge rock/boulder expect excavation cost to multiply.

Those are some pretty cheap windows, Brian's!

Most of my costs were way below that, but my windows were $10K, on a smaller house.

>Those are some pretty cheap windows, Brian's!

I disagree. We use well known company. (And there is s*load of windows for that price avg 38).

>Most of my costs were way below that, but my windows were $10K, on a smaller house.

These are example cost. What cost were lower? I've read you got a good deal on standing seam roof. I could not believe you found someone to install it for that little.

I did nearly all of my own work, so my prices were materials only. The OP is planning to do a lot of work themselves as well.

My survey was about $400 on 7 acres

Siding (DIY Nichiha) $500 (got an incredible deal)

Plan $0 (DIY)

Doors $1400, including antique interior doors

Drywall, one of the few things I hired out $4800

HVAC $4200 two minisplits; did my own Manual J with a $50 program

Flooring $4400 Reclaimed pine, 5 coats Waterlox (DIY)

Appliances $2500- used my old washer and dryer

Interior trim- plain Craftsman trim from standard boards <$1000 (DIY)

Paint <$1000 (good paint; DIY)

Cabinets, including 32 drawers <$1000 (DIY)

Countertops- combo of maple and laminate $1000 (DIY)

Plumbing <$1000 (DIY)

Finish plumbing <$1000, including two kitchen sinks

Electrical $3000 (DIY)

Insulation $1500 (Cellulose in attic; the rest of the house is ICF)

Permits $400, plus septic $280 (nothing they can do about either)

GC overhead $0 (I was my own GC)

Architect overhead $0 (designed it myself)

My case is unusual and extreme, but people can save a lot of money if they have the time and skills. Many of the things I did on my house were the first time I ever did these jobs, but I'm unusually adept at building stuff, and have spent years on research. I scoured craigslist and ebay for bargains. I shopped all over the internet for the very best prices on everything from nails to electrical fixtures to appliances. Other than the laminate counters, most finishes in my house are fairly high-end; certainly far beyond builder grade. We spent about $125K, not including the land. An on-line, location-specific building estimator priced our small house at over $300K.

I disagree. We use well known company. (And there is s*load of windows for that price avg 38).

What company is that?

mushcreek,

Siding (DIY Nichiha) $500
Wow. That's about half of the cost of paint. Is it fiber cement or vinyl?
How many sq ft of space does each your minisplit cover? And the size of the minisplits? Do you need a separate dehumidifier to remove moisture? My house will be a 2-story plus an unfinished basement and each level is about 900 sq ft. I'm thinking about getting a conventional heat pump for 1st level and basement. And the 2nd level will have a minisplit.

mushcreek,

Many thanks for details information.