It's not Patens. But it looks like something even more interesting and unusual. Looks like a good find.

Do you have a clear photo of patens, barbmock?

Nice! So beautiful! But clearly nothing like the Sans I have. I wonder what it is?

Maybe someone will come along and id it for you. I haven't seen this one before. Where did you buy it? Maybe they can help

I bought it from a seller on eBay who just disappeared!

You can rule out patens, as Barbmock said. It's either a hybrid or an obscure, perhaps new, species that I've not seen. Sure is interesting, if you 'see' the seller again like to know who they are, please post here or private message.

If it's a hybrid, from the barring this plant has I'm thinking one of the parents could be fischeri (old name singularis). I have a hybrid with fischeri that has distinct barring, but young or adult plants don't look like this one.

Russ, bluesea14808@yahoo.com

Well, that pretty exciting and frustrating at the same time. If it pups, I'll keep you in mind, Russ. Thank you.

Whatever it is, it's a beautiful plant - good for you. I had seen that listing and wondered about the validity of the name given as I too have patens and it definitely doesn't look like this but then, I didn't grow it from a juvenile so what do I know?

I'll post more pics as it matures. I can't imagine it changing much but you never know.

The vendor is still on eBay and has more, plus francisii, fischerii, ballyii and other cactus & succulents. It is listed as S. paten, not patens - and if you Google S. paten you will find pics of plants similar (even variegated).

You are absolutely correct! The photo he shows on eBay threw me off as you can see it doesn't really look like the plant I own. I contacted him and hopefully he can shed some light on its identity. Thank you NextObssession.

It could very well change, the tall spear-leaved sans all start out life as a rosette in juvenile form. Patens is one of these. Interesting the name on Ebay is paten, not patens. That's a new on on me, I'll check out the seller's offerings.

Let us know if you find out anything from the seller, vitorama.

Russ

I should have added that your plant looks pretty old, so this might be an intermediate stage or the adult stage, rather than a juvenile plant. If I had to guess I'd say this plant is an adult, which would be really cool. But the seller knows, hopefully he will tell you.

Russ

Russ! You are absolutely correct! The dealer got back to me and said they propagate all their Sans from leaf cuttings and separate them from the mother when they are very small. He said I have an immature plant and in time, the "round leaf" will start to grow. I do agree with your second observation though. I wouldn't look at this plant and say it looks young!

Okay, so by 'round leaf' I assume he means cylindrical. That really surprises me since it looks quite old. Too bad he doesn't post a pic of the mature stage with the immature plant he's offering so growers can see what it will eventually look like.

If he actually said the 'mother', I guess he meant the propagated leaf that grew the offsets he's separating.

Russ

Russ, I'll post exactly what he said:

Hello my friend: thank you for your time to send the picture, yes is a paten, we grow the paten by leaf cutting and by separate the pups from the mother, the plant picture and the one you received are from leaf cuttings, they start tiny and do a few more pares of short leaves before the round leaf start to grow, we only have 4 to 5 sansevierias for sale and not look similar, thanks for your understanding, best regards

As in so many cases, you won't know until you grow...the fun of gardening, yes?

So it's a juvenile or intermediate form. Good to know. I have been coming back to this thread hoping for confirmation because my patens pups did look similar to this.

Yes indeed, NextO !

That's so great to know, Mentha! I will post any developments on this plant.

Is the dealer saying the plant you have, S.paten, is going to look like barbmock's plant?

The real curiosity to me is why he keeps calling it paten. I'm thinking maybe it is a language barrier.

Yes, I believe you're right about that. What botanist would name one species S. paten and another S. patens? Not likely.

I bought something like this years ago at a swap meet. It was an old box with different sans. I took a chance and they've all survived, whatever they are named. There're a few donated sans in this pot also

k

Just to add to the confusion, patens is also known as "Ed Eby" of which I have had the pleasure to meet his son on numerous occasions. He used to sell gallon sized pots of Sans at the local swap meet back home for $5 and smaller ones for $1.

Entero, thank you for sharing that photo! That plant looks exactly like the plant he listed on eBay. The one he sent me looks similar but different. Very interesting!

Mentha, I didn't know it's alternate name. Thank you for telling me.

Now, exactly where are you two that Sansevierias are sold at swap meets???? Lol

Look what I found. This may shed some light. The Huntington on Patens

Those were the days right Mentha?

Great article! But the conclusion is, there is no conclusion? And now I wonder. I have seen dealers selling plants as S. 'Koko' , does this mean it is S. patens really, or the other hybrid the renamed 'Ed Eby' is really?

The box of sans I found at a swap meet up here. I looked all over the swap meet and didn't find a thing to buy until I hit the last row. There was a box with several different bare root sans, they looked old and dirty but I just couldn't go home empty handed. The price was right too. You can't see it in the pic but under the 'Ed Eby' is new growth. I need to be more observant of what I do have growing. When bringing plants back inside for the winter I'll combine several in one pot trying to save space.

I did see that new growth. Looks promising! I like the look of several different varieties in one pot. Pretty!

Exactly vitorama! The conclusion is there's no conclusion! So why change the name that's been around for decades?

I read about the proposed renaming of patens to Ed Eby by Jankalski. And I know about the wonderful lives of Ed and Alva Eby, their involvement in sansevierias and the plantings in Hawaii's Koko Crater for so many years.

But I think assuming that patens is a hybrid, naming the possible parents, and giving patens another name based on those presumptions is a bit... presumptive!

That same article says that patens 'has a juvenile growth form that persists into maturity'. I've seen many pics that growers have posted which show patens in a tall, cylindrical leaf form. Even the last sentence in the article says 'Further research will be required to determine the possible hybrid origin... and it's possible parentage'.

So, too much assuming going on, I'll call this plant by it's original name, patens, until definite proof of it's origin is found.

Vitorama, I have Koko and patens and they're different plants. I don't think the 'experts' know what Koko is either. Patens is easier to grow, Koko stays small for me, is very slow, and will rot easier. I've seen pics of mature Koko's posted by better growers than I am, it's truly a very special sans.

Sorry for the rant kids,

Russ

Thank you for weighing in, Russ. I was hoping you would. I'm happy to get clarity on the even the fact that Koko and patens are two different plants. That article made even that sketchy!

i wondered about the Koko crater plants in general. If the government was experimenting with sans hybrids for fiber production, wouldn't they have kept detailed records of the hybridization they were doing? How else would they know which hybrids were superior? Where are these records? They surely must be public record by now.

Also, how does anyone who explored Koko crater years after the project was abandoned know whether the sans found there were government transplants or native plants? Do we know as a fact that Sansevierias are only native to Africa and Asia?

I reread the "correction" statement (2008) and it made me chuckle that they printed that someone (Ed Eby) RESCUED a plant from a BOTANIC GARDEN.

From my experiences growing native plants, watching the name changes, the reason is there is DNA testing going on now and botanists are reclassifying plants according to DNA rather than appearance - but that takes money I suppose.

The records may be in some archive. I wonder if Chahinian made an attempt to find the records. There are masses of information and untold stories in University collections, The Huntington, Smithsonian, Historical Societies, and Gov't. archives if someone just goes looking and asking.

I concur Koko is not patens. I used to have both. Koko was discovered by Ed Eby in Koko Crater after the Sans experiment was disbanded. The parentage of Koko was never found out. Maybe when DNA testing gets to be a little cheaper they will know eventually.

N/O It wasn't that long ago, maybe two or three years ago that I'd get i gallon pots for $5 from Ed Eby's son. Schweinfurthii, patens, and Koko were usually what he'd sell. He was a member of CCCSS at the same time I was.

"I've seen many pics that growers have posted which show patens in a tall, cylindrical leaf form."

Barb's photo shows this. I have one too, a single, long-leafed fan. Also a couple short leaved, "cylindrical" leaved plants. The big one I have (long leaves) reminds me of a show-girl or Aztec dancer headdress.

The one on the right is also patens. I would say Barbs plant is in its juvenile or intermediate form.

I found this post googling paten. Back in may I think I bought from the same seller. What I got looks nothing like my other Patens.

It looks nothing like my other Patens. It's kinda flat but the ridge markings are there. Oh well time will tell.These are the other patens I have.

This is the fischerii He sold me at the same time. Rob

Definitely the same seller! My patens looks similar to the one you bought. It's quite sculptural and pretty so I don't mind whatever it is. My fischeri from him looks just like yours only smaller. I do have them in small pots so I may be dwarfing them, not on purpose. Thanks for sharing that Rob!

Those do look like patens but not exactly, the grooves are definitely like patens, but they're sort of malformed and in my opinion the two top pics look like they're actually 'stacking'. Stush, do they look like that to you?

Russ

Here's a picture of my S. Fischeri Singalaris 'smaller juvenile rosette' that's stacking right now. When it does pup, I believe it will be the singalaris form.

Mike gave me several but only one continued to live on for me. Don't know why. I though it was a different plant but he told me it was it's juvenile stage. Note how wide some of the leaves are! I like it just the way it is. BTW it was stated that hahnii is the juvenile stage of S. trifasciata that stayed that way.

Stush, the juvy form of fischeri sure is pretty with the contrasty banding. Too bad it grows up and turned into a big ol' dark spear sticking out of the ground.

That must be Mike LaF. He grows a really mean sansevieria, as well as his brother Dale.

Russ

Rob, your patens is really unusual. The first two pictures are blurry but the third one looks like the leaves are shiny, are they? My patens is dark green and has a rough feel.

How right you are Russ.