How long has it been since you noticed the damage? Do you fertilize your plants all year, even in winter? What 'zone' are you in?

It sounds like a plan treating for pests, but I would also be concerned about the mix your tree is in and what brought them on/? When did you buy it?

I fertilized earlier this spring, but only once. I am in SE Florida, I am not sure what zone that is.

I have noticed the pests since the first buds & flowering, at first I just thought they were ants, but then I read online that ants will farm pests to collect their honeydew. I would say it's been a month of a battle with these pests. Once the ants were stopped I thought I would be all clear, but something is still sucking sap out of my leaves.

The tree has budded again, and there is new leaf growth as well, some of the new leaves have wrinkles in them, so I suspect that these pests are going after the new growth too.

If it's scale, how big do the scales look on the branches? Are they the size of a pinhead, or larger?

I am concerned about the brown edges on your leaves. Have you fertilized it? If so, did you follow the manufacturer's instructions? it looks to me like it might be salt damage which why I ask about the fertilizer. I agree with Mike that the soil does not look good. What is it? Scales range in size from barely visible to about 3/8".

Ok, looks like a re potting is in order then. I wanted to get a larger clay pot anyways, as the plastic one its in is light, and the tree has tipped over in the wind.

As for a new potting mix, what should I get? I have a lowes and Home Depot close by.

as for what I used for the fertilizer it was miracle grow shake and feed continuous release for citrus, avocado, and mango. It says it's 13-7-13.

the potting mix it's in now is what it came in, when the tree was purchased.

please let me know what I should get for new potting mix, I want to save this tree!

No clay pots. Get an earth pot. Make one from weed guard, the kind you put down to block weed growth.

Earth pot? I am keeping this as a potted plant, it's not going into the ground.

any tips on potting mix to get?

Hey Tim, what is an earth pot? How does one make one from weed guard?

At the risk of getting banished lol I have a recommendation for potting mix. The 511 and gritty mix are great however I'm not sure I've seen many examples of people using them in Florida. I live in Daytona Beach so I'm familiar with the heat. As far as fertilizer use the dyna grow foliage pro from Amazon. The shake n feed is for in ground citrus (I made that mistake). I did a ton of research on Als gritty mix and 511 mix. Definitely read up on it. I fly for a living and my citrus trees get very hot and the soil dries quick and I'm not home as much sadly. I have 8 container citrus and about half of the had the 511 but the other half I got lazy and cheated (they'd be in the ground but the association doesn't allow them) lol so I snuck around a technicility. Miracle cro POTTING soil for cactus palm and citrus mixed with perlite was a quick and easy fix. I read somewhere that equal parts soil and perlite but I did 2 bags of soil for 1 bag of perlite. Hate to say it but they did much better than my 511 mix. I just wasn't able to water the 511 mix enough. Understand the mix will have to be replaced in a year as it breaks down but so does the 511. Only the gritty mix is good for long term. However the gritty mix holds even less water. Now for the places up north that's fine and my idea would probably spell death but the hot Florida sun is intense. As far as your tree cut the fruit off once it's pea size or bigger. All the energy is going to the fruit. Cutting them off will push a ton of growth.

Regarding the mix that's just my personal experience. If you have any additions to compensate for floridas weather I'm all ears. Good luck!;)

I have been reading up on the 511 mix myself. I have learned a lot in the past couple days by reading this forum a bit. It looks like my soil has compacted, and the roots to my tree are either rotting or not getting enough air

I work from home, so watering is not an issue for me. I think I am going to try the 511 and see if I can get my lemon tree turned around.

My question is......where are the ingredients for the 511 most likely to be found? I don't think I have seen any of the ingredients at the big box stores by me.

Marino..Where do you live? Maybe some of us could help you locate. The 5.1.1 is a God send and stays much more moist than one might think. Except of course if you use clay or a pot full of holes.

If one finds that their mix dries out too fast, then the mix might not have enough peat, the bark might not of been soaked over night, or the pot is in a the very hot sun which requires amending the mix to suit ones needs)

Milan, you're not banished and hearing the experience of others always helps us learn. Nice to meet you)

I live in West Palm Beach, FL.

I am going to call a few places I have found on the web down here, I guess to try and find some of the ingredients.

Also, for a new pot......clay is bad??

What should I look for in a new pot. I would want something on the slightly larger & heavier side, as the wind has blown my tree over a few times, and now that we are getting into thunderstorm season, I need to keep the tree upright in the storms.

Hehe thanks Mike. Next time I repot I'll try the added peat. I found the perlite and peat at Home Depot or lowes except the bark. Most people use the repti bark from pet stores and chop it up. That's what I did anyway... As far as pots I have the same problem with the wind and have tried to do my best of finding a place to block yet with still enough sun. I've even planted shrubs to make a wind break. Home Depot and Loews sell pots that aren't clay but they're not quite the cheap thin plastic... I have a few of those. I also had some clay pots but they're finished on the outside, not sure if that helps or not. Read somewhere it does. So I'm experimenting.

Ok, repti bark......what do you use to chop it up? I live in an apartment, so my gardening supplies are fairly limited!

I am going to run to lowes and see if I can grab the perilite and the peat, along with a new pot. I guess I should go with one of those earthen type pots? I am looking for something to hold moisture in, correct? Would plastic be a better material?

Yeah unfortunately I had to use a shovel and s wheel barrow to get it to size... I think if you just used what's in the bag it might be too big of pieces but let's see what the others have to say... As far as pots I think the benefits of a heavier pot in Florida outweigh the negatives. With me the plastic has cracked after a few months. I think Home Depot or lowes carry the name better homes and they're a heavier plastic that seems to work nicely.

Don't you have access to an Agway store? Or a store that sells pine bark?

Really, the reason why so many find their mixes not staying moist they way they want, or not drying out evenly is because they substitute with repti-bark which is not composted at all. In fact, it can repel water if not soaked before hand for days...If that is all you have access to, I would buy a few bags, and then stick all the bark into a bucket of water and let it sit in there until you are ready to start using it)

I found pine bark fines! Along with sargassum peat, and perilite!!

however, the lime was a 20lb bag, which was a bit way too much for me . I am going to look at trying to get some in a smaller amount.

I am going to re pot tonight, I will post some more pictures. Hopefully my tree springs back.

Ok, all done. I found a good bit of rotten roots at the bottom of my pot.

i cleared away a good bit of the old soil from the root ball as I could, I worked my fingers around in there and used the hose to dislodge a lot of the old soil.

I then mixed up the 5 parts pine bark fines, to one part sargassum peat, and one part perilite.

I replanted the tree, and used my hands and later some chop sticks to try and push as much of the new mix in and around the root ball. The tree is pretty stable, but I moved it to my south facing porch, and tied it to a support just for some wind protection.

Lastly, I gave it a good watering, and I picked off the green lemons that were growing

Here's hoping for good results!!

I'm a little late to the discussion, but I'll give my experiences in the world of growing potted citrus in case it helps. I live in South Central Pennsylvania where our zone was changed from 6a or b to 7a in the last year or so. I currently am growing meyer lemon, something that was labeled as "standard lime", and an arctic frost satsuma mandarin. I potted them all in unglazed clay pots because they dry out fairly well with less chance of root rot occurring as long as the soil drains well. The lime was the only plant that didn't give me any problems once I started watering it regularly. The 3 foot meyer lemon was my favorite and I decided to get a nicely decorated pot just for that one. The pot is maybe about 18" compared to the 12" and 14" the other two were placed in. The walls of the pot were much thicker than the other two as well. The soil itself was organic soil that comes pre mixed with compost and worm castings. I just added sand and micronized azomite to keep the soil well drained and enriched with trace elements. The lemon grew a few limbs and leaves last summer. It also flowered and grew lemons. My intention was to remove the lemons to allow for more leaf growth, but couldn't bring myself to do it! The problem was that the soil never dried out. I believe the thickness of the pot was the cause of that. Most of the leaves dropped off over the winter despite it being kept under a 600w high pressure sodium grow light and being watered the same amount as the other two plants. I just repotted the plant about a week ago and it started growing new leaves almost immediately. The new pot is 12" with the soil being recycled from the 18" pot. The citrus have been outside almost a month now since we've been out of the 30s. I wanted them to get some of this rain we've been getting to flush the soil out and to rinse the neem oil off that I sprayed them with last fall to get pests off before I brought them in for the winter. The lemons never fell off so I knew the plant wasn't close to dying, but I did notice the roots hadn't grown all that much since I potted the plant last spring. I think it should do a lot better now that the soil can dry out a bit between watering.

As for the arctic frost, the plant never did much of anything from the time I planted it until about two months ago. It neither grew nor lost any leaves. It just stayed the same and I knew that wasn't what it was supposed to do. I knew that could happen if the soil level was raised higher than it was at the time of purchase but didn't remember adding soil. I later remembered that I pushed excess soil around the edge of the pot as if to direct water toward the trunk during waterings. That excess soil eventually leveled out and left almost two extra inches of soil around the trunk of the plant which was maybe two feet tall. I removed all the excess soil until I ran into roots. The excess soil filled about a quarter of a plastic grocery bag. I removed a little excess from the meyer lemon at that time as well. Within a couple weeks, the arctic frost finally grew new leaves and eventually flowered for the first time. The fruit started to grow, but I did remove those because the plant is way too small with too few leaves to be growing fruit in my opinion.

As for the lime, It did just fine from the time it was potted spring of last year. It started flowering last fall or winter and hasn't stopped since. The fruit would get to about pea size and drop off during the winter, but as the length of our days increased and especially since I put the plants outside, the fruit hasn't been dropping.

To sum things up, plastic pots retain moisture too much in my opinion. Clay pots allow for breathing and make it harder to damage plants due to over watering. You will have to water the plants more often, but from what I've experienced thus far, that's how citrus like it-quick drying soil with frequent thorough waterings. Misting the leaves is also appreciated by the plants. Given the hotter temps in Florida, plastic pots may be acceptable while outside. Root rot may become an issue if the plants are taken inside at all however.

Something else to keep in mind is mentioned in a youtube video by an experienced citrus grower. He compared the growth of his citrus to that of his neighbors citrus plants. The neighbors pruned the plants heavily in a way that exposed the bark of the tree to a lot of sunlight. The trees never recovered from the pruning. He rarely pruned his trees and if he did, he did it in a way that allowed the branches to still be shaded by leaves. He stated that citrus, unlike apple trees, don't have to be pruned in order for more fruit to grow. Citrus will likely have more of a bushy growth while people prune them to look more like trees. Doing so with a potted plant will expose the trunk to sunlight, which they do don't want. It will also take needed shade away from the pot. The roots need to be kept cool like they would be if the plant were in the ground. Hot roots will result in poor growth as well. If the plant isn't wide enough to shade its pot from too much sunlight/heat, place other pots around it or something white/bright around it to reflect some of the light...

I had to move due to not being able to find employment and my plants were stuffed in a closet at a relatives house for a few months with a florescent lamp. My gojis, navel oranges, jade plant, and original meyer lemon all died from lack of light and air circulation. Actually the navel oranges were placed in a very cold window sill with a thick curtain keeping any heat from getting to them and weren't watered for over a week... Of all the plants pictured, only the two bananas and the lime survived.

The lime is front left with the vibrant green new growth. I'd only had it about 3 months at that time. The long branch was about two feet at that time.

That very same lime plant is on the left in this photo after a much appreciated summer outside. This photo was taken almost a year after the previous photo. It really filled in! I guess it liked the bat guano ;) The plant in the middle is the arctic frost satsuma with a meyer lemon cutting rooting under the plastic jug. The plant on the right is the 3 foot meyer lemon plant. It didn't look too bad after the summer but the long winter started to take its toll...

It flowered and started to grow lemons.

Then flowered again. Then I decided to flush the pots. The lemon never dried out after that and I eventually ended up with this...
It's now in a smaller, thinner pot that should dry out like I want it to. It's been cloudy/rainy the last few weeks, but I still found some growth on the meyer lemon.


It was windy yesterday so the leaves are flipped over in some spots. The arctic frost is doing well with a few new leaves...
And the lime is still doing well... I guess I've exceeded some kind of limit so I'll have to add the photo in another comment...

After some research I found that the clovers/yellow wood sorrel growing in my pots is a nitrogen fixing plant that is also edible so I decided to let it keep growing. All of my pots contain earth worms as well that aid in aeration/drainage and help break down leaf matter in the pot. Therefor I don't throw cuttings/dropped leaves away. I just throw them in the pots for the worms to eat. I get in pot worm casting production as well! The meyer lemon cutting is rooted now and hanging in there, though not actively growing yet. It did flower a few months ago. I plucked the flowers off after they bloomed though. Any lemons grown would be bigger than the cutting!

If I think about it, I'll add some updates once we start getting more sunshine and warm weather. It's warm enough for the plants to survive, but not warm enough for them to really grow at this point. As far as fertilizers go, I prefer not to use strong stuff on potted plants. I have some Citrus Tone, but it doesn't seem to do as much for my plants as plain Plant Tone by Espoma. My uncle, who has a horticulture degree, turned me on to Plant Tone about 5 years ago. It hasn't let me down yet. To stimulate quick leaf growth when I know we'll get a decent amount of rain, I have some Dr. Earth bat guano. It produces fast results compared to Plant Tone. For my flowering/fruiting plants, I use Roots Organics Uprising Bloom. I don't go by the instructions on the bags. I use small amounts like one or two teaspoons for a large pot every two or three months. I want them to be healthy, not grow a lot. I'm renting and don't want them to get huge until I purchase my own home farther south. All of my plants have Progress Earth Earth Compound added as well. I highly recommend reading "The Secret Life of Plants" as well as "Secrets of the Soil" by Peter Tompkins/Christopher Bird if you want to understand Earth Compound's purpose... They give a wealth of information about how to grow plants organically and how to restore land that has been stripped of nutrients through over farming the land and poisoning it with conventional chemical methods as well. Viktor Schauberger's info on agriculture and water revitalization should prove very useful as well. There are a few videos on the net about his discoveries as well. Collum Coats has translated a lot of his work into English from its original German.

My plant growing experience has had ups and downs, especially when other people decide to involve themselves and don't know the needs of my plants. Take the time to understand the environment where your plants thrive naturally. Know their needs for humidity and soil consistency especially. Fertilizers can help to get the particular results you are looking for, but the most important part is just keeping your soil healthy. Know the difference between dry, moist, wet, and soggy! Know the difference between soil and dirt! If you take care of the soil, the soil will take care of you.

Steven, nice to meet you..

Your intentions is good and your experience much appreciated...With out taking it as insult, I figure you could use a bit of advice..

I would stop using organics in your containers since it can be so 'unreliable' due to temps flucuations and the inability for beneficial bacteria to hang on indoors while not being in direct contact with the earth itself..

This explains the reason for your ups and downs, as also yellow leaves, lack of vivid dark green color, bare branches, inconsistent growth, stagnate roots, and contorted leaves...

All you would have to is use a good mix that does not suppress oxygen to the root zone, not hold salts and that does not hold stay so moist all the time that worms can live in your containers... The mix and all the amendments that you use suppress good air exchange and encourages slowed growth in all facets..Using a good water soluble with a pH adjusted water solution and lots will keep your trees consistently healthy,actively growing, and encourage them to grow to their full potential..Having a Citrus tree in a pot grow to its 'Full Potential' and strong 'Vitality' are most important to most anyone .

I am sure that that is your goal right? To have very healthy trees 365 days of the year? Where is your zone by the way?

Nice to meet you

Mike

Hey everyone, I repotted my tree in the 511 mix this past Friday. I am no longer tying the tree up, it's freestanding now.

However, I think the tree is sulking a little bit. I should expect this for a little bit correct?

Yes...I would leave it in a shady spot or under dabbled light under a tree for a couple of weeks......

Should be fine)

Well, still here. Tree has dropped a couple more leaves, just the worst ones that were on. But other than that, I have been keeping the tree watered about every 4-5 days, I make sure that I stick my finger down into the soil, and if it's dry(ish) and the leaves are starting to droop a bit, I give the tree a good watering. I let it drain fully, and even tip the pot on an angle to try and get all the water to come out of the bottom that I can.

I am patiently waiting for the tree to come around and flush......I hope!

Is it normal for the tree to wiggle around a bit in the soil? I tried my best to work soil up into the root ball, but there is still some wiggle if I move the trunk around.......will the tree grow new roots and stabilize itself a little more?