On the subject of Buddleja I definitely like this BB I linked below, its been on my radar for a long time & I'd sure give it a try it if I found one but I seriously doubt it would do good here. Camps, I bet Wooly BB would behave itself --even over there-- if it survived that is, there's no way it could become a pest.

I'm usually game for trying something I like out of my zone but I can't say have tried and failed so many times as you did rouge. Two times would be my limit (well maybe three). You must have wanted one bad. I have about 70% success growing zone 8 plants here in zone 7 so what do those charts know? The plant I have tried & failed the most with, in fact, failed every single time is Agastache, meaning the xeric ones. Last year I finally said THAT'S IT DAMMIT, never again. OK, then I had a few seeds and actually planted them in a pot in February indoors and have one small plant I am totally ignoring. I figure snubbing it might do the trick but it cost me zero money. I'm growing the more water tolerant hyssop type, I got one from SRG last fall, the golden leaf Jubilee one. Agastache attract monarchs better than any plant I know of, I saw a 'temporary' planting of A. cana up the street that was literally covered in 100's of monarchs in fall here two years ago as they came through, they seemed to just about ignore most everything else in the whole neighborhood, I never saw anything quite like it. Of course a rainy spring comes and zap, gone is the Agastache, its only a matter of time around here.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/ornamentals/nativeshrubs/buddlejamarrubii.htm

I agree totally with Campanula. And it's not because Buddleja is common. I love lots of common things. It's invasive, in the true meaning of the word, and it's ugly. I don't often consider any plant ugly but Buddleja is a gawky, twiggy, leafless, mess of dead brown seed heads for much of the year. And while it provides nectar is does nothing to feed larvae and hosts no native wildlife that I know of. If it is cut to the base every year and deadheaded, it can look OK in the back of a border, but there are so many better choices in my opinion. When I finally got rid of the Japanese Knotweed in my wood it immediately fill with Buddleja. Only now, years down the line, are native trees colonising the space. This is what it does to our walls. Note the combination of scrawny foliage and dead seed heads.

It's invasive, in the true meaning of the word.

Again, this is completely further from the truth for those of us in our hardiness zone.

I thought I was clear in my original post and those subsequent that this thread was not about the pros and cons of BB but rather my interest in hearing about my peer's frustration reflected in on going lack of success to have a relatively common plant not survive in one's garden.

Obviously I wasn't clear enough...sigh.

You were perfectly clear, Rouge, but we are simply consoling you with the downsides of buddleja which would be only too evident if your climate allowed for its survival.

As for frustration, my beloved species roses have been through a torrid time since it is becoming increasingly clear to me that they are not appropriate plants for a deer infested woodland. So what do we do? We find another plant to love.

In truth, I don't really find tales of woe that thrilling, since I experience far too many of them myself...and take heart from the successes we have wrenched from unlikely sources. I fully understand the irritation which accompanies the dissing of beloved plants by other, less enlightened gardeners - I rather like to drop in a mention of euonymous alata (burning bush) (which I have planted quite cheerfully despite tales of horror from US woodlanders) over on the tree forum, just to get the temperature rising...but these are plants we are referring to - not politicians, so don't really feel much more than the tiniest smidgeon of guilt for being a wind-up, even when the term 'troll' has hove into view.

Yes - completely clear, Rouge. I was just continuing a conversation.

One always wants what one can't have. But in the case of Buddleja Camp and I just don't think it's worth having - whatever your conditions. We were trying to use our experience to convey that, in our views, your loss is not actually worth mourning.

It is also fair to say that I have been distressingly slow to realise that there are wider responsibilities other than aesthetics, when entering into the world of horticulture. For a good few years, I simply believed that plants were under our dominion and with a bit of tinkering with growing media, irrigation and even lighting, we could grow almost anything with no cost to the wider environment.I am a bit ashamed at the naivety of that view - only finally realising the larger issues when I was fortunate enough to own a patch of woodland...whereupon, almost overnight (the rat invasion, followed by woodmice making a home in the horsebox), I went from a gung-ho gardener to an anxious but hopefully more thoughtful steward of an environment I am actually sharing with many, many other flora and fauna.

There is not a lot a person can add concerning plants that won't grow where they live other than they won't thrive or survive and I'd imagine we can all throw out examples in spades of plants we wish we could grow but cannot no matter how much advice is thrown our way or how many times we've tried.

I thought the topic was getting interesting myself. It was interesting to learn (and see a picture posted as an example) of that particular plant taking over in the UK, even growing out of wall making itself not only invasive but destructive in the bargain. The wall BB basically looks ugly, just like I have always thought BB's usually look but it wouldn't look much better growing in the ground.

BB is quite hardy here, a popular plant thats always available in stores, it forms large bushes that don't usually die back to the ground, it sets seed and yet its not a pest which makes me wonder why? Maybe it does and I am not aware of it yet?

Obviously if a plant won't even winter over, it will not make itself a pest in that region. My own list of plants I've tried and failed with is too long to post and would make boring reading to people who live in other zones or regions.

I don't regret the lack of buddleia hardiness here at all. For me, I'd love to be able to grow crape myrtles, not the shrubby ones from zone 6b, but the ones with the tall muscular, flaking bark trunks and of course the flowers. I wish I could grow more of the western penstemons and agastaches than A. rupestris and P. pinifolius, though I am grateful those survive well for me. I'd be delighted if figs could survive outdoors and Camellias would survive and bloom here in NH. It would be lovely to grow many of the less hardy clematis like C. montana, florida, cirrhosa, . . . And I wish all the voles on my acreage would get eaten by predators so I wouldn't constantly be needing to protect the plants that are hardy enough!

I think this quote from Henry Mitchell, a garden writer for the NY Times for many years, is pertinent and speaks to why I continue to garden:

. . . the gardener's life is not a perfect hyacinth bed but a life of unexpected failures and sorrows, somewhat redeemed by unexpected and utterly accidental triumphs.

One always wants what one can't have.

This is part of it; the part that has me trying multiple times w/o success;

As I had said BB are available like water at most any garden centre around here and yet I am betting that failure is the norm.

I will make the simple but sweeping statement that BBs should be labelled as a zone 6 (Canadian) (Although to be honest that probably wouldn't have stopped me ;))

...gr. 2 Clematis seem not to like the way I garden as I've continually struggled to get them going over the years, slugs notwithstanding... I am always envious of the beauties that exist in just about everyone else's, but mine.... but I'm still trying and have a couple more on the go...

...Buddleia weyeriana 'Golden Glow' is quite nice. I let it grow into a small tree... I don't think they're all bad...

. . the gardener's life is not a perfect hyacinth bed but a life of
unexpected failures and sorrows, somewhat redeemed by unexpected and
utterly accidental triumphs.

What a great quote, NHBabs. I need to write that down somewhere. My garden is looking particularly nice right now. I am waiting to see what disaster will strike!

Rouge, don't be disappointed your thread didn't take the direction you intended. Even though BB has no relevance to me, I found the discussion to be interesting.

Rouge, don't be disappointed your thread didn't take the direction you intended.

Not a problem at all. I am learning lots.

Here's an example for you Rouge. You can see from the picture the small purple panicles, it passed on two seasons ago, my third attempt, so like you , NO more. The white one lives on.

Interesting, sherrygirl, that the last surviving BB in my garden is a dwarf white one too.... I wonder if the white ones are hardier for some reason....?

I could not grow Eupatorium rugosum 'Chocolate' to save my life. I liked the foliage very much and the flowers were OK but it was all about the foliage for me. A friend that lived about 1/4 of a mile away grew it to perfection. He gave me 5 clumps which I put in 5 separate locations in the garden. None came up the following year. Tried again- fail and again - fail. It just did not want to grow for me!

What a perfect bfly pic 'sherry'!

I feel your pain peren.all ;).

Buddleias are among the perennials that haven't made it here (at least two tries). Hardy fuchsia survived two years. None of the several fancy Echinacea hybrids I bought have lived longer than 2-3 years.

I would've added David Austin rose hybrids to the list (in this case, plants that survive long-term but don't thrive), but after the past mild winter multiple roses (including Austins) that piddled along in past seasons are blooming nicely and look healthy.

"My username is rouge21 and never ever again will I plant a Buddleia."

Fellow NeverEverAgainBuddleias: "Welcome rouge21."

More Phlox!!!! :~)

First time trying a BB ("Orchid Annie") in a container which will be put in an unheated garage come the colder weather next late Fall.

Addicts in treatment sometimes have relapses.

I think the implication of my vow was to never again plant a BB in the ground :).

Despite the teasing, I'd be interested in hearing next spring how well the technique of planting in a pot and then moving the pot into a cool building for winter protection works.

Conainers=gateway...

I will for sure report back...all in the name of horticulture!

I'm chuckling over here.

oh you made me laugh :)

Hens and chicks give me trouble. They just don't ever "take" to my garden even though I'd like to collect a bunch

I cannot grow blue Corydalis to save my soul....I've tried in the ground and in pots. Over and over. I have trouble with Ajuga in the beds but it does great in the lawn....I do have a lovely small Buddleia though...

I cannot grow blue Corydalis to save my soul.

Good call. But I have seen many posts saying similarly. It isnt you.

I cannot grow blue Corydalis to save my soul.

I so thought of you buyorsell88 when I peered down amongst the weeds and spied these specs of blue ;):

First time trying a BB ("Orchid Annie") in a container which will be put in an unheated garage come the colder weather next late Fall.

UPDATE:

No sign of life in the container. That's it for me...pinky swear.

My buddleia is just starting to break through the soil. Maybe give it some more time.

Oh rouge! Still no luck?

Here's what I can't seem to grow: Lily of the Valley. I understand that's a good thing. Can't grow liriope, either. I thought I couldn't grow Shasta Daisies, but fortunately I was mistaken. They're growing like crazy for me now. Apparently they just take a lot of coddling at the beginning. :)

I was so stupid 'mnwsgal' and 'littlebug'.

With it being in a pot and so no weeds or grass around the base it seemed easy enough to see or not see telltale signs of life + having been overwintered in an insulated garage and been out in the sun and heat in not frozen soil this spring I was thinking that it would show green sooner than if it was in the ground. And so I pulled it out by hand today (it was well rooted) and lo and behold there were 'niblets' of green just below the soil level! So ridiculous that I was impatient. Don't tell anyone else about my stupidly ;).

;-)

Rhododendrons :(

I cannot grow one to save my life.

They are ubiquitous here- every damn house has a decades old Rhodo somewhere and I can't get one to survive one year. I've tried MANY locations, cheap PJM and Lee's Purple plants from local stores down to pricey Delp and Dexter cultivars from Rare Find and none live.

I grow many azaleas, kalmia, and other woodland plants, just can't do this one and am done trying.

Replied to this thread last year about not being able to grow shasta daisies. I've said so many times over the years any fool can grow shastas; well, apparently not....there was something about the specifics of my last house that they just did.not.like. So much money down the toilet over the years on shastas. I finally resigned myself to the fact it was a losing battle and just bought a pot or two in bloom and enjoyed the potted plants on the patio while they bloomed. Well, I've since moved and hoping I can grow some over here at this place - we'll see.

I just bought two Black Knight (dang I can never remember whether it's Dark Knight or Black Night!) buddlei over the weekend. I had no trouble with them at the old place, hope the same holds true for this place. Will be planting them in a south-facing foundation planting, hopefully that will be warm enough location to ensure their survival. My soil drains well, so if soggy soil is what kills them over winter and not the cold, that won't be a problem either.

I think we are coming to the conclusion that it is the 'mini' BB that are the weaklings.

I've tried two different BB's so far: first was Miss Molly and it smelled so great, but it did not survive it's third winter. I couldn't find that same one so I replaced it with a Miss Ruby. This is it's third year and it has a little bit of new growth visible (earliest ever that I have seen).

Despite how easily they seem to die here I do love these plants. So many incredibly fragrant panicles that keep coming when I deadhead them. No invasiveness issues, and butterflies definitely love them.

Someone else mentioned Rhododendrons. I have 2 PJM Elites. One in my more sheltered backyard and after 6 years it is doing fine, and had a nice bloom this spring. The other one is in the windy, exposed front yard and it struggles. The leaves desiccate and the foliage is pretty sparse. This year some heavy wooden screens leaning up against my neighbour's house fell over in heavy wind and broke a few branches off the struggling rhodo. TWICE! I would be more angry if I wasn't going to rip it out anyway. Might replace it (and a nearby Summer Snowflake Viburnum that has never grown larger than the original planting size of about 20 inches high) with a small dogwood or maybe an Annabelle hydrangea.

The one plant type that really gives me fits are ferns. Ostrich fern, ghost fern, and even ferns native to this area...for whatever reason they just diminish and die. I'm done with them now. The last one just got replaced with a Chionoides rhododendron.

UPDATE:

This "Flutterby Petite Blue Heaven" has been in this container for about 3 months. It's doing ok but not as many blooms as one would get if t was in the ground.

Ahem...so 'never, ever again will I plant a buddleja'...until next year.

I bare my soul, show you my foibles and still you tease ;).

Well, I've learned something about BBs. In Georgia, where I didn't really garden, I always thought they were more of the, "Plant it and they will come" kind of thing for pollinators. No fuss, no headaches, easy-peasy. Someone on the New England forum has kept only a pink variety for many years. Other ones have died. I'm getting some seeds this year from Swallowtail and WS them. It's an easy way to give them a try. The nurseries around here want a minimum of $40 per bush! 8-O Can't afford that for a fly-by-night plant. I'm going to do naked dancing in the moonlight so rouge's bad juju doesn't attach itself to me. (She says, knowing she could never wake up at midnight these days for anything.)

Oh darn, I should've read this before I purchased Petite Tutti Fruitti this morning! Rouge21, have you had success overwintering your Buddleia since this thread?

I’m in zone 5. I used to never be able to over-winter buddleia. Now I have near 100% success and I’ve planted up to August. In the North, two big things. One is drainage. They hate cold wet winters. You need very well-drained soil. I have sandy loam soil but I still only plant butterfly bush in raised areas of the garden. Don’t mulch. Second, in zone 5 most years they die back to the roots. And here is what gets most people. They don’t leaf out or emerge again until late spring. Sometimes not until end of may or beginning of June. Many gardeners pull it out and give up when it’s really just still dormant.

Thanks for the tips, DS! I'll give those a try and cross my fingers it over-winters. My soil is sandy, so that should help!

Rouge21, have you had success overwintering your Buddleia since this thread?

Havent lost any (but haven't planted any either ;)).

Seriously, you cannot plant them or ever prune anything off of them after July. I actually bred some of the plants mentioned here. Only prune and cut back in the spring when growth begins again. Too many gardeners try to make everything tidy going into winter. This only allows points of entry for bacteria that work their way down the stem to roots, killing the plant.

well, I gardened in a region on sandy soil with realy strong frost (Berlin, 20y+ ago), I did garden maintenance in a nice fancy garden (as a fully trained gardener), and with some Buddleja there was a problem that they were moved or rocked by winter gusts and nearly lost the ankoring/ hold of their roots, I always did a hard pruning in spring, like ankle high, and they developed ok, but I think somewhat delayed

so I switched to aditional top pruning in fall, just to reduce the sail effect. that helped a lot, and at least way back when there were no other problmes. Could be because the winters

were dry-ish