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pkponder2

Pruning question from a neophyte

10 years ago

Please be gentle, first time here. I have only one Adenium that was given to me maybe 5 years ago. I live in north Texas, zone 7b-8a and my plant spends summers outdoors.

Two years ago after repotting, it fell over in the pot unnoticed because we were out of town. The result was a die off of some of the rather tall (3-4 foot ) branches. I tried trimming off the die back and nearly killed it. I had a lot of blackened areas, I assume that I did not sterilize the pruners properly. I kept pruning and most of the blackened areas have been removed. It is now looking somewhat healthy now, but is very ugly. My wish is to prune it low, nearer the caudex. I haven't cut it in nearly two years.

Should the cut be completely horizontal or should it have a slant to shed water? Any other tips short of giving it to someone that knows how to care for Adeniums?



Thank you in advance!!

Comments (24)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Try putting cinnamon on the cuts, it's a pretty common trick to prevent fungal infection. I would be hesitant to cut close to the caudex, but other members probably have a better idea of how far you can push it.

    It's usually recommended to cut at an angle. Try cutting one or two of the lower branches when the plant is doing better and it should branch near the cut.

    Most people prune around early spring, but I think you can get away with quite a bit.

    Definitely wait until the plant recovers before trying pruning again, if the area around the cut rots, it will probably not branch.


    Dont worry if the ends of the cut turn brown and contract, that's pretty normal as long as it stays just at the tip

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked thezombies
  • 10 years ago

    I came from your area originally! Because of that, and your name, I bet I know where you are too. PK may be Possum Kingdom, or Ponder. I bet not many here know where that is. In 2012 I moved to Galveston, but I know your area like the back of my hand.

    Welcome to the forum. Stick around and we'll turn that one plant into 20 soon enough!!


    PKponder TX Z7B thanked jedobaTX9b
  • 10 years ago

    Yes definitely cut at an angle for the reason you already know of, plus these types of cuts then blend in better when new growth appears rather than a flat cut. I think it will benefit from a drastic cutback but you can't cut below any leaf nodes, they are small scars where previous leaves have fell, new leaves/branches come from them....so no scars = no new growths. As to where and when you should cut, that's a tricky one, I can't immediately see where, no doubt others will advise in due course, but as it appears to be coming into growth I would think prune now. I also would repot asap. What I can advise on is the pot and its contents....what are you using for compost please? It looks very peaty and water retentive. Has the pot got drainage holes? A side view would benefit us as hard to tell the pots true height, it may even be too big after you prune, if you decide to. The mix needs to be largely inorganic and fast draining, that's what most of us will advocate. Horticultural grit/chicken grit/aquarium gravel, any will do or whatever is in your grasp, but no sand please.... in equal quantity with perlite, bark chips and a free draining cactus mix. Some use no cactus mix, but I prefer mine with some else you can find yourself watering daily, the choice is yours. Please also pot it higher up in the pot, it's set too low down. My climate is totally different to yours and others on the forum, but this is what I do/use and it works for me:) Oh, don't use regular secateurs if possible, best is a very sharp knife or scalpel....and sterile too! Let us know what you do, others will be along with further thoughts. The top portion still looks dodgy, a better pic of that area would also help. Best get rid of the dead leaves, they can harbour all kinds of nasties including bugs, fungal spores and disease, just in case : /

    Gill UK

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked greenclaws UK, Zone 8a
  • 10 years ago

    Thank you all for your guidance. The cuts that you see the ugly stumps from were made about two years ago, the blackest one feels soft. We have had deluge after deluge of rain and I didn't think to bring it out of the rain. I'll apply cinnamon for sure.

    The pot is big and heavy to support the top growth that it gets every summer, it was at about 4 feet tall when I had to cut it back, it had fallen over after repotting because of a too small/too light pot and went unnoticed while we had a week at the beach. Soil in the pot is 5.5 inches deep and 12 inches wide. It is a painted terra cotta filled with nursery potting soil, no doubt full of peat and mulched hardwoods. There is a large drainage hole in the bottom with an window screen cover to hold the soil in. I have cactus soil and perlite that I bought to pot this thing, but I totally forgot. Maybe having plant dementia due to my age. I see now that I have abused it horribly.

    Hi jedobalTX, PK represents my initials, PamK and I like ponding and Possum Kingdom too. Ponder is kind of flat :-)


    More pictures


    Showing the pot shape

    Showing the scars



    More


  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Pam,

    " ... the blackest one feels soft."

    I'm sorry to say that's a red flag for rot. Can you share a closeup of the area?

    EDIT

    Borrowed your picture (hope that's OK). Is this what you're referring to? You say "blackest." Are there any other "black" areas?

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Maria Elena (Caribbean - USDA Zone 13a)
  • 10 years ago

    Until all black rot is removed and healed up that is your goal for now to get it under control.

    I would switch to a quick draining soil mix? I would also look at the roots to see if they are without rot.

    I see a lot of lower places to trim and maybe graft too. It would be much bushier. With more balance. But you are going to have to see how much of the tree you need to remove the black rot to see what is left Good luck

  • 10 years ago

    Palm, hello again and thanks for the further pics as you can never post too many when asking for help like this!

    Sadly, they show us the two really dodgy areas in all their glorious detail. The rot I am sure will slowly spread even further if not stopped in its tracks, but it's going to be tricky to get rid of that lowest area in particular. I'm not confident enough to give you a clue as to what to do, others may feel they can advise better so I'll bow out and take a step back in the hope that someone will have the answer for you. Lets hope one of our experts see this, (I have several in mind but won't name names) and help with some ideas to try and save your plant such as exactly where to prune to both prevent the rot and save the plant. In the meantime, can you keep it out of any possible rain just to be safe? Also, I would take this opportunity to grab a bag of grit, any of the types I suggested earlier, and also some bark chips to mix in equal quantities with your perlite and the c/s mix, so, 30% of the first three ingredients and 10% cs mix, that would make a suitable free draining mix for your plant, you can adjust it as you wish but make sure it drains really well. Try to get the grit, perlite and bark all roughly the same size, seive the perlite (downwind) to rid dust, use largest bits don't worry they will still be smaller than other ingredients, smallest bark chips fall to the bottom of the bag if you shake it around, just like making pastry, lol! And come back to us.....

    Gill UK

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked greenclaws UK, Zone 8a
  • 10 years ago

    Great recommendations, Gill. Thumbs up to soil change / no water.

    Pam, this would be the time to check the roots, as Marica recommended. Shake off any soil and, if you can, please post a picture of the bare roots. Any soft roots must be removed. Very important: Mke sure you sterilize your cutting blade with alcohol or bleach (rinse if using bleach) after EACH cut.

    I am, by no means, an expert either. In fact, I am relatively new to adenium. This is the beauty of this forum ... we all learn from each other. In fact, watching your particular case unfold will be a great learning experience for us all, so thank you for posting here.

    I can tell you, with certainty, all rot must be excised to healthy tissue or it wlll spread. The immediate question is do you lance out individual areas or is it more prudent to cut off everything above the rot? I suspect it may be too far down and would leave you with just the caudex, which will not branch again. It will become rootstock for grafting any surviving upper branches, as Marica indicated. I don't think you want to go there.

    Please don't dismay. I have seen a similar case where the rot was excised from individual spots and it didn't go any further than that. That particular tree survived and flourished, with the character of battle scars.

    Now I will completely bow out and let the big guns take over. Take courage ... You're in good, knowledgeable hands. I will be following this thread and sending good vibes your way.

    - Maria Elena


    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Maria Elena (Caribbean - USDA Zone 13a)
  • 10 years ago

    Thank you all for your helpful comments. I had moved it out of the rain, then uprooted it this morning after reading your comments. Both areas that I had clipped off 2 years ago are now soft. The area closest to the top was firm just yesterday, so I hope that I haven't waited to long to ask for help. I am taking pictures with my phone and my shaky hands, sorry for poor quality of the photos.

    This is the 'blackest' area that I spoke of earlier.



    Other blackish and now softening area


    I found rot on some of the roots next to healthy white feeder roots (I washed the soggy potting soil off)




    It is now a plant out of soil. I have work today, but I am sending hubby out for bark chips and gravel. Should I pot it in a smaller diameter pot?

    I know that I'll need to surgically and with sterility excise the root rot, use a tissue to stop the weeping, then apply cinnamon to help with fungus. Then I leave it for a few days to callous before repotting in the better draining mix?

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Couldn't leave you or this tree alone in the waiting room! Don't worry about the tree being out of its pot. That won't hurt it and, under the circumstances, is the best thing for it.

    Correct, cut back all black roots to healthy tissue. Slice off a bit at a time until you hit solid tissue. Take a photo before you lightly dust with cinnamon, a natural anti-microbial. I read that activated vegetable charcoal is also good. Some people dust the roots with it before repotting.

    Pam, we need to determine the extent of the rot. This particular spot looks like a great place to begin. Please excise the stump ("other blackish, now softening area"), as well, little by little, until you reach healthy plant tissue. This will give us an idea of what we have to work with.

    I'll bet you didn't know last night you'd wake up a surgeon!

    Please wait on the bark chips & gravel ... You're not repotting right away, anyway. This tree is on the operating table. Is anyone familiar with the correct substrate mixture for north Texas?


    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Maria Elena (Caribbean - USDA Zone 13a)
  • 10 years ago

    Pam, sorry for referring to you as 'Palm' earlier, this silly predictive text can be a right pain in the butt at times, I didn't notice till just!

    Anyway, back to the Adenium. Oh dear, it's got the rot underground as well judging from your latest set of pics. As Maria Elena says, it won't hurt letting it stay out of the compost, even several days. I would start the operation as soon as you can, why wait? Please post a step by step progress so we can try to help you through it. You have nothing to gain by leaving it as is, the soft areas will only spread further resulting in the plants total demise. You know what you need to do albeit it a drastic chop and cut, but hopefully the outcome will save the plant for you.

    A smaller pot may well be needed, no need to hurry, we can all take a look and advise you on that bit later.

    Gill UK

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked greenclaws UK, Zone 8a
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks again! I'll tackle it after work tonight. I am in the Fort Worth, TX area which is typically hot and bone dry this time of year. This incessant rain isn't helping anything with my poor Adenium. It's going to stay in the house drying in the air conditioning until the weather clears up. There is no sun anyway.


    Gill, no worries, I knew that Palm equaled Pam. :-) We have to love auto-correct, right?


    I'll have the hubby take pictures so you all can see the progress. Again, I am indebted to you all for your help. You give me courage to be the 'surgeon'.

  • 10 years ago

    I love this diagram and explanation and your further explanations and comments LatinLady!

    I looked very closely and either I have many that look more like lips as in a sideways flattened oval shape or more like a horizontal line. I'll look again in the morning with better light unless it's still raining. My artificial lighting isn't quite bright enough this evening.

  • 10 years ago

    Pam,

    That awesome diagram was done by another forum member, Martin (Denmark). I hope he doesn't mind my sharing it (again!). I personally found it very helpful.

    Have a restful evening.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Maria Elena (Caribbean - USDA Zone 13a)
  • 10 years ago

    I had to check back to see how it's going, Cutting can be so much drama.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Marica 7 high Sierra's Ca 4,000ft
  • 10 years ago

    LOL about the drama! I have not yet made the cuts, still looking for the nodes and since I am unsure I'll probably just try cutting back the rot areas to healthy tissue for now. Trying to work up my courage to go for it.

  • 10 years ago

    Can you post some close ups of the caudex for us to take a better look at Pam?

    Gill UK

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked greenclaws UK, Zone 8a
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I know this sounds like a big deal, but if we see close ups on all side, They can pinpoint suggestion where to cut. As many pics as you can show us will only help. We need to also see the bottom of the roots looking down on them. You may be cutting several times. Just think you never thought to be a plant surgeon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    It is so worth it if you save it. Remember each cut the blade will need cleaned with alcohol, Hope hubby is helping he can hold and turn. But even if not you can do it.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Marica 7 high Sierra's Ca 4,000ft
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I am by no means a great adenium expert, but as long as you cut into the area just below the rot, I am almost positive that you will be on the stem vs the caudex. As long as it stem, it will branch. I have a picture I have posted before that shows it.

    As you can see from this picture, there are no old leaf scars where these four are popping!


    Also, this plant was badly etiolated, so I trimmed it as well. The yellow "circle" is an old leaf node. The three red spots had nothing, and they're the ones that sprouted new branches!

    In other words, the plant will choose a new spot for a branch, as long as you have all of the caudex. I'd add a bit for safety.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked jedobaTX9b
  • 10 years ago

    I bit the bullet and did it. Seriously took pictures of everything, probably too many. I hope that they stay in the order that I upload them..

    Started with the roots


    First cut


    Clean cuts on all roots


    Topmost and most recent rot (soft area)



    Hoping this is a normal center and not more rot



    Starting on the worst black area. This actually used to be a nice V in the plant before the initial damage occurred.


    After the third slice, still seeing rot


    Fifth cut of this spot

    Took a bit more off and found more rot (9th cut)


    All clean after a dozen cuts, butchered though





  • 10 years ago

    There must be a picture limit

    Cinnamon all over


    The search for nodes




  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Wow! You did it!! Great job, Pam!!!

    There have got to be nodes in the area where those two spindly branches are. Those look very odd & skinny. In fact, I believe I see a node right above that lowest rot area. I recommend you remove the spindly branches then cut up, at a slant from just above where the lower one was, up. This should produce multiple branches and the tree will look better as opposed to keeping it tall & bare as is. The new branches will grow to the current tree size in no time.

    You can root everything you remove. Dust with a little rooting hormone like Rootone (it's also a fungicide). Water thoroughly when you pot everything up. Make sure you pot the caudex in a terra cotta pot with an aerated (gritty) substrate. You can dust the roots with a root stimulator like DynaGrow to give them a boost. The roots will begin to fatten up in the new mix, so allow a large enough pot. Do not reuse the old soil ... too heavy. Keep on the dry side, only misting the substrate, and out of direct sunlight until you begin to see new growth. Then increase water to 1-2x weekly and slowly begin moving everything into full sun, a little more each day over the course of a week. Fertilize @1/4 strength weekly.

    Adeniums should be repotted yearly in the spring, so roots can be examined. You can reuse all inorganic materials in your mix but any organic material should be replaced. If you allow the substrate to dry out, then toss in a bucket of water, all the bark will float to the top. Remove & replace. This is the time to determine whether or not to begin exposing the beautiful root structure by planting a little less deep.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Maria Elena (Caribbean - USDA Zone 13a)
  • 10 years ago

    You did good . Great pic log too. Looks great, even if it looks odd to you for now. Root the clear cuttings, maybe you can try grafting after a bit as you see the shape change. But maybe it won't need it. Please keep us updated as it goes along.

    PKponder TX Z7B thanked Marica 7 high Sierra's Ca 4,000ft