Hi, its me again. I'm into echinacea suddenly. I've been snubbing them for years and then last fall I ordered 8 Magnus from SRG at the end of the season on super sale, it was probably late October or November a couple weeks or so before our first freeze. I really love the Magnus, they look great with grasses, are the perfect height and I would like to have several more peeking out among some new areas I've planted in Little Bluestem. The contrast & color of these two is wonderful!

I have some questions and figure you are the E. Expert. When do the seeds get ripe? I'm wanting a lot more plants and I'm wondering if I could try to sow some in 4" pots in summer and plant them in fall. Around here in zone 7 Oklahoma, fall is by far the best time to plant because our springs are rather short and often dry and hot, like this year for instance.

The SRG plants were small and those wintered fine so I was wondering if this is a feasible idea or not? The reason I'm hoping this might work is to have blooming plants by next year rather than germinating them inside in spring and waiting a whole season or, spending money for more plants once they go on sale (if there are any left that is).

Tex, I typically have started them in July and set them out in September (or maybe October)...it works. You may or may not (I usually do not) get blooms the next year.

A hot summer seeding works good for me. I think that the summer rains of late August get a lot of stuff started in Texas . I was amazed how well they came up last year in late July/early august. The seed heads were blackened and well dried so I went for it and got gobs. We had only the summer rain that comes out of the end of a hose, but they fell for it.

Why do all of my echinacea seedlings bloom like the purple coneflower eventhough the seeds came from yellow and white hybrids?

I looked into it. According to what I read online E. pallida needs cold strat but then some sources said that about purpura, black sampson and all the others. Wantanamara, you have Black Sampson and reported good germination in August with fresh seed. I'm going with you and Barron on this and plan to sow some seed in summer in pots since we are so dry this year.

Karen, Personally I like the pinkish-purple with orangish cones the best of all the colors and thats what I most want to have growing. That combination of purplish and orange is what really makes them so cool but then the form is nice on all of them. The bigger the cone, the better I like them. Maybe the white ones are sports off the purple and only a chance seedling will be white ever now and then? I get the same thing with Salvia greggii. Every now and then I get a white flowering one but most are shades of red of pinks. I notice some of the purple coneflowers that grow wild are very pale pink while others are deeper pinkish-purple. Judging by nevermore's garden, they cross breed rather easily. Makes it kind of fun, I'd think.

I do believe if in doubt, stratify in the fridge for 4 to 6 weeks...but E purpurea usually doesn't require it.

I don't think the seed is viable early enough in my neck of the woods.

Karen.. to you color question.... I spoke with Jim Ault (one of the early breeders of echinacea) quite a while back about this. Due to all the interbreeding they do to get the color .. and then the form.... the wanted yellow/orange traits are recessive.... so even if you self pollinate the plant... you will most likely just get the dominate purple genes. Once you cross pollinate those first offspring.. you might get color in the second generate. He had told me about getting the white varieties and it went over my head. Now... the cheyeene spirt variety that gets all the fun colors direct from seed seems to break this whole idea out of the water now... so who know.

I love a good genetic storm to rock the boat of presumptive "givens"

Wow, then I feel really fortunate that all my 'Pow Wow White' from seed came true to the parent. I marked the pots of seedlings white or purple (E. 'Magnus') and gave many away to friends and family and they have reported they all bloomed in the color marked on the pot. I wonder why there was no variation?

Thank you, Nevermore. I will cross these purple seedlings back and maybe I get lucky and get different color.

Pretty! I like the flowers on the giant rudbeckia and yours do look great but I'm trying to get rid of mine. Its a space hog (oink oink), way too big, the stems get so tall that they cannot hold up the flowers in the spot I have them planted and they gradually start falling until the whole six ft stem is horizontal. AWFUL. I don't care for the gigantic leaves because they cover the other plants, if I had a bigger space (like an acre) I'd grow it. Frankly, I'm having trouble getting rid of it, its got a really big and very persistent tap root and I've got three of the dang things. My alternate coneflowers are Mexican Hats. Much more sane in size and I like the ferny foliage that doesn't overwhelm.

I chumped off last night and filled out an order for 3 Magnus Superior from SRG using their coupon for 25% off early fall orders. I also ordered 3 more Red October Big Bluestem plants. I hem-hawed around and didn't send the order off until this afternoon and even though the deadline was June 30, it still worked.

I want to have the echinacea popping up here and there among the other prairie plants and grasses rather than a thick population massed in. Mostly this year I've been adding more grasses, especially Little Bluestem for contrasting textures and bits of color as accents among the grasses. Its a Prairie Thing.

Does the rud maxima deed down for you or are you saying it's just hard to get rid of what you got? Mine is near my fence so the wind can't do too much to it and the big leaves are behind other stuff

mexican hat is nice too but seeds down all over the place for me. As much as brown eyed Susan's. At least they are easy to pull out if needed.

i fought off using that 25% SRG coupon.... Had the order all ready to go too.

Tex... You have a photo thread of your prairie?

The Rudbeckia bloomed in early June or late May. At first it was standing tall but each day it seemed those stems leaned a bit more until finally they were sideways, not on the ground but ridiculous looking.

Here are some photos, I've got tons of them showing the transformation through time but these are recent. I keep tweeking it and tweeking it, adding more grasses mostly by transplanting volunteers but also ordering ones from SRG. I want a soft prairie look rather than a lush garden look, if you know what I mean. Its been a process. My favorite garden time is now late summer, fall and early winter. Get that. Grasses will do that to a person. A lot more bluestem will be showing itself soon, sending up stalks in the front and back, I can't wait, many are already tall or getting tall. I bet I've added about 120 prairie grass plants--Little Blue, Big Blue, Sideoats Grama, Blue Grama and more Switchgrassesthis year in with the wildflowers. This is a Water-Wise Okie Prairie Garden.

That's a nice looking garden... Especially with the light coming through all the grasses. !!!

question. Looking at that first shot.... Are you living in a standard subdivision? Lawns and lawns everywhere.

I'm in the inner urban part of OKC in an old neighborhood with homes built in the 1920's, a few blocks from the State Capitol, I can see downtown from the upstairs window. All around us are typical yards with lawns except downtown and around the capitol large areas are being planted in prairie grasses and native plants making me "with it". Not my fault the others are slow to follow suit....

ha... that's always great to see when you are driving around and see someone that has turned their whole yard into a garden.. and then next door it's just lawn.

More plants... this is pretty much the peak of blooms at this point. There are a ton of secondary smaller blooms still to come.

IF ANYONE WANTS SEED from the echinacea 'hula dancer' plants... just email me at nevermore44 at yahoo dot com. These are open pollinated plants, so there's always a slim chance it crossed with a paradoxa or pallida... but these have seeded down straight in my beds... so it should be true to the parent.

kaw kaw!! I did e-mail you, I shamelessly did it the moment I read the offer. I will try again.

Those pictures.

Well, all I can say is: This Echinacea Orgy is simply getting out of hand Mr Man.

There have been a few subtle comments about my yard not fitting in with the neighborhood on this forum, I got the impression some were silently glad they didn't live next door to someone so crass. I actually lost sleep worrying about it. I also feel very guilty when I'm not bi-annually spraying my lawn with herbicide, mowing weekly with my gas power mower adding carbon to the environment and using a sprinkler system twice weekly, like everyone else is. Its hard not fitting in.

Yep, TR, I think you should try to conform to your local neighborhood. You stick out...like a sore thumb (lol).

TR... no email came through yet. You want any other prairie types?

I have my privacy fence in the back to hide the bulk of my gardens... though each year they have started creeping out into the front yard... don't know how that happens! I have to keep some grass to toss the ball around with the boy.

We lost our power and the internet is just now back up. I think its power surge because its so DANGED HOT here everyone is taxing the system. Did I say hot. Its an INFERNO.

Barron, whats the weather like in Arkansas?

I will e-mail you again later, I'm just in taking a cool down break from preparing panels (in the shade)

Rainy...like 10 out of past 12 days. I need to mow my yards...since I haven't yet converted them :)

Gorgeous flowers, nevermore!!!

Tr2,

I certainly hope (and I assume I am correct that) you are joking when you said you feel guilty about not conforming. I think we should pass laws that everyone with any property needs to convert a certain percentage to pollinator-friendly plants with no mowing or power tools allowed. Or, there could be tax breaks for people who convert their yards to water-wise designs. I think there are some regions where water use is controlled, but we need to go much further, and fast. The drop in the numbers of pollinator insect over the past 5 years is truly terrifying. The more each of us can do to expand the nature-friendly spaces, the better.

Echinaceas are wonderful pollinator plants, and are also loved by migrating birds and other small, seed-consuming animals. So, plant away and share with neihbors.

Martha

It seems like I'm not seeing they usual # of insects this year, its not just butterflies which most people try to attract, but dragon flies, little native bees, damsel flies, praying mantis, moths, skippers and that haze of various small insects that usually hovers over my plants that I notice in late afternoon light.

I don't like the idea of laws being passed but I did have a thought some time back. You know how all those gated communities spring up like mushrooms have strict rules about things like: you must have one tree in the front & you must have a well maintained lawn etc? I thought it would be nice to have some gated communities with names like 'The Prairie' where its low prairie grasses instead of lawn along with wildflower gardens & all native plants etc., especially since developers are scraping off prairie to cover them over with housing, streets and bermuda lawns.

The city has been putting in gardens and plantings like this already, it looks great and I like it a lot.

We have been on mandatory water restriction here since the last major drought. The people at the OK Water Dept said it is in place permanently whether its drought or not. If you use too much water you get a stiff fine and they have a notice saying you can call this number ____________ to turn abusers in and remain anonymous. I heard from a guy who had to go pay a ticket, he ended up in a long line and found out most of those people were there to pay fines for using too much water.

That's wild... do people use the number to "get back" at their neighbors?

You have rain barrels?

Austin has been on water restrictions for 15 years. It does not stop, only changes in the level of strictness now. Even during two years of floods and full reservoirs, they have not removed the restrictions. I am always amazed at how much water people are allowed to use during their droughts in other places.

IF ANYONE WANTS SEED from the echinacea 'hula dancer' plants... just email me at nevermore44 at yahoo dot com

I have collected out the viable seed and theres tons... so plenty to go around.

Yes yes yes I do!!!! Thank you thank you ;)

I messaged you from your original offer up thread. Let me know if I need to resend Address info.

All set. You have some going out today. I just a ton more

How easy are they to grow from seed? I kill everything :(

As easy as any other ech. You can just toss them on the ground and they will grow in the spring... look up winter sowing. Or you can start in trays like others during the winter.

Just send an email

Nevermore - you mentioned collecting out the viable seed - how do you know what seed is viable?

Just think of them as sunflower seeds. So the viable ones have the actual seed within the shell... Vs the non viable ones are just empty shells. The good ones are typically larger and darker then the bad ones. Break a few open and will see the difference.

Thank you - I took a closer look at how my Echinacea is and pulled out some of the seed heads, and I think I see what you mean.

Enjoyed all the pics...... beautiful!

Sent you an email re seeds

got your emails. I'll send early next week

I'm sending out seeds tomorrow to those that emailed

Nevermore love the seed offer but to be honest I'd like some advice for you, because the concept I'm trying to create in my yard is very similar to what you have done.

What I'm wondering is: what spacing should I be planting on (during establishment of a new garden) to achieve the fully filled-in "cottage garden" effect, where each plant is touching the ones around it, and weeds are naturally suppressed?

I started my garden a year ago and I'm pretty happy with year 1, but I spaced my plants based on the guidelines included and there still was some space between everything (and weeds came).

so this fall I'm thinking to dig some stuff up, divide, and replant tighter. But not sure if that is the answer, or if I just try to let them grow bigger in-place?

Thoughts?

Well with echinacea... They seed down like weeds anyway... So the spaces between any planned garden will fill in over a few years ( unless you are on top of weeding them all out). For they rest of my gardens... That i crowd in... Is just the outcome of nurseries and garden centers making me buy plants all the time even though they don't offer to dig more beds for me.

if your garden is just a year old... Its still in its teen years and the plants haven't grown in completely. It sounds like you have a good helping of impatience... So you will make a great gardener!!! I would just say watch the plants you have in there to see how they end up. Moving them or dividing them will just set them back some and you might over crowd too much.

Okay thanks. When the coneflowers seed themselves, do the seedlings pop up right beside the parent plant, or do the birds and stuff spread them all over? My Magnus seed pods have been getting abused by the goldfinches lately so hopefully some seeds will be left.

Also I'll add that my coneflower garden is a mix of ech. and rud. so I'm not sure if that changes the spacing issue. Hopefully they play well together.

Here's a fun color that just bloomed in the past couple weeks. It's in a cluster of echs where I just took a seed head in the fall... broke it up over the ground to see what I would get. I got about 8 regular purples of various petal length.. and then this one.

Even though this bed is in the front of my house, well away from the beds in the back (where i have some mites)... only this orange/pink plant got a bad case of mites. None of the purples plants right next to it got a single infected bloom. I don't know how that works. I cut all these blooms off after the shot and tossed them.

Beautiful AND interestingly too bad.

That was too bad. It was a beautiful colour combo.

The plant will bloom again next year... hopefully without mites issues. If you cut off all the infested blooms as you see them, you can reduce their population for subsequent years.

I think you should change your handle to Mr.E