I know how scary it is to do a bare root repot and I know the awful feeling you get when you see the root rot but it has to be done.

Jane may sulk for a while and droop her leaves. Make sure to keep her in the shade and in a protected area out of the wind. She will be losing water faster through transpiration through her leaves than she can take up through her roots now because she has lost some of her roots, so you want to limit evaporation from the leaves.

When I repotted my Meyers last year, they had almost no roots left, all had rotted away and died in the crappy nursery wet mix. It took them a while, but they got back up. I had them in the shade, in 511, and I watered every day.

Remember they have no capillaries left to get the water from right now, so until they grow them back you need to make sure they get plenty of water in a very well draining mix. At least that's what the experts told me to do last year, and it worked for my trees.

Let us know how they are doing! Good luck and God bless,

Atheen

Thanks guys. She, along with the new giant key lime, are in dappled shade and appear happy....no drooping. I'm going to plant the other two now.

Athena, I am surprised that you did not get root rot even in 5-1-1 due to your watering every day.

Watering everyday won't cause root rot.

You can cure root rot by watering more if you want.

Actually, you 'can' get root rot even in the 5.1.1 and gritty mixes watering every day, inless you are growing hydroponically..

The only way you could water every day without root rot is to dangle the roots in air and consistently spray them well aerated nutrient rich water which is called hydroponics)

Or you could grow plants in water in marbles or hydroton clay and not worry about it because then too it's all about providing a constant source of air and or oxygen.

Hydroponics is a subset of hydroculture and is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, in water, without soil. Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral solution only, or in an inert medium, such as perlite or gravel

I've been aggressively cleaning root balls for the past month myself as I pot up and it's amazing how resilient they are, even with cutting roots and breaking them apart to get them clean. So far out of about 20 citrus repots, only 1 casualty... my poor chinotto :(. It's not dead yet but it hasn't rebounded either... I think I am starting to see tiny little buds but it could also be wishful thinking. We shall see!

Nice work Laura!

Thanks Hobby! I'll post updates!

Hi Pip, could you explain what you said: "You can cure root rot by watering more if you want." How is that possible? By flushing out the pathogenic microbes?

Actually, Vlad, the way Al explained it to me last year is that root rot is not so so much caused by over watering as to being caused by stagnation and not enough oxygen. Each time your water, you renew the oxygen by pushing the old water out. (He has a huge post on containers and water retention on the container forums that explains it much better than me). He also explained that because I had lost most of my roots and all my capillaries, I needed to water more often than not, because it was harder for my trees to reach and grab the water. Whenever I didn't water every day (before they got their capillaries roots back), they got droopy. I had kept the same regimen until I brought the trees in for the winter.

By that time, capillaries were back, they weren't in the sun and heat all day long, so I watered about once a week/10 days, or whenever they needed it. It's harder, when they're in.

When I brought them back out this year, I started to water every day again without thinking, and Mike thankfully reminded me I didn't need to do that anymore, since my trees were healthy now, and had their roots back. I now water every other day, and fertilize about 20 min after I water. I could probably go 3 days, but I like to water before I fertilize.

I live in Maryland, and it seemed to really work for my trees. We brought them back from the brink last year, thanks to the advice of Al, Steve, and the gang if Mikes ;) In case of doubt, I always listen to Al, Mike and Steve, lol. I am by no means an expert at anything citrus, I can just share my experience from last year because it worked out for me.

Have a great evening, y'all!

Atheen

Water itself does not cause rot. It's the lack of oxygen that does. Water contains dissolved oxygen but only a small amount. If you constantly add more water and let the old drain out the plant will get all the oxygen it needs. I've seen it done on a marijuana forum and tried it myself. It's true. It actually cures rot faster than letting the medium dry out. I'll try to find the original post I read.

edit sorry it's been so long I don't even remember which forum it was.

Thank you Atheen and Pip, much appreciated! I will now water every day that drooping Meyer lemon that I bare rooted a few days ago.

That's great info. I noticed when I tried to clean out the root ball, it was very compact. The outside edges looked fine, but in the middle there was a section that was very hard. When I broke it up was when I smelled that awful stink....stagnant, rotten water and organic matter....gross. It was like a bubble within the root system.

Well every day is actually not enough. You would need a near constant drip. I put the plant under the faucet with a constant drip when I did it.

A few links:

Al's post on containers and water retention. Long read, but truly fascinating stuff: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/2842847/container-soils-water-movement-and-retention-xxii?n=493

My repotting post from last year. Shows the process and you see how the trees drooped in the beginning. Also shows pics of all the rotted roots. I truly had a single, short root left on each of them. The ball was smaller than my fist, everything was rotted. On top if it, I didn't know I was supposed to pre soak the bark, so my mix really didn't keep much water until the bark broke down a little. a lot of good info in that thread: http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3147547/repotted-my-meyers-this-morning.

Hope it helps,

Night, y'all!

Atheen

I am a bit confused here..Are we telling people that it's impossible for people to get root rot watering in the 5.1.1 mix every day?

Mike

Mike, I am confused also. I would think that one would get root rot with the 5-1-1 mix because it seems to retain plenty of water, especially if made with pine bark fines, as in the original Talpa recipe. I am not sure that daily watering would be OK even in the gritty mix, which retains less water.

I do not water every day in the 5-1-1 or gritty. I stick my finger in the mix and decide from that....

I'm sorry if I confused anyone. I can only share what worked for me. I've been thinking about this last night. Maybe the reason why I was told to water everyday is because I had not pre soaked my bark when I made my 511 mix? So it really couldn't keep much moisture. What do you think Mike?

Atheen

No we are not telling people it's impossible to get rot by watering everyday. We are explaining the real cause of rot which is lack of oxygen and how letting the pot dry is one way of getting that oxygen but constantly replacing the water is the other.

there are advantages of the constant drip method such as not stressing the plant even more by denying the water that it already has a hard time taking up due to rot.

So, watering every day would not be "constantly replacing the water"?

Pip, did you set up a hose to constantly drip? If so, how did you make sure it covered the entire surface of the mix?

You don't need to it will wick

Well that's nothing new...It is obvious that the more often you water the more oxygen your roots get. That is why we use very porous mixes that allow you to water more frequently that the junky mixes sold on the markets or sold by the big companies that use a ton of fine particles in theirs that does not allow you to water often.

That is why many people love the hydroponics methods since they can provide all of the oxygen and nutrients one wants every minute of the day without rot. I know people that grow marijuana using this method..

It is just that one used the word constantly and a few times a day and I took that to meaning water even if the mix is already moist. I am glad we straightened that out)

P.s...a constant drip can also kill your trees if not careful even in the 5.1.1 mix. It killed my sisters. In the 1.1.1, it's impossible to evenly water the entire root mass with a drip system unless you use sprayers....

Mike

So, as for my recently repotted trees, I will continue doing what I have been doing and will NOT be watering every day unless the mix is dry as shown using the dowel method.

To each their own. I grew marijuana in Dwc. The drip method isn't that much dissimilar. I wouldn't grow with it but I would use it to cure rot. Too much wasted water.

Piip, you made no sense..Can you explain further? What do you mean that you would use the drip method to cure root rot? In what type of mix? Or no mix at all? What kind of drip set up? Does it drip in the same spot in a pot at all times? On a timer?

Are you talking about using the drip method in a mix similar to the 5.1.1. mix? Would you drip water even though your mix is already damp?

Thanks

You are way over thinking it. Regardless of mix even very slow draining I would still drip water into the pot to cure rot. How much water depends on the size of the pot. However damp it is doesn't matter.

ive done it before. It works. Constantly refreshing the water will constantly refresh the oxygen. Much better than letting the pot dry and hoping oxygen forces it soon the pot even though it has no real reason to.

Thanks for the interesting discussion guys. You did not confuse anyone Atheen, I need to look at your threads, but have not had a minute, and will not tonight. My kids dragged me to a twenty one pilots concert....I have no doubt that the other plant you have grown - Pip, will be used all around here once it gets dark, though not by us :-). Vladimir, like you, I will continue doing what I've been doing - appears to be working.

"You are way over thinking it. Regardless of mix even very slow draining I would still drip water into the pot to cure rot. How much water depends on the size of the pot. However damp it is doesn't matter".

Respectfully, No I am not over thinking it...You can drip water in a pot of a mix that is still wet if that is what you choose to do,, but I would not encourage others to do the same or you will be finding a lot of new comers come back with dead trees.

Respectfully, t's not sound advice, especially in a slow draining mix...Constantly dripping water does NOT cure root rot in a container mix that constantly stays wet or any for that matter, and in fact encourages rot, and salt toxicity,,, We all know that a good flush through more often than not will exchange the oxygen in a well draining porous mix. Yes, the bigger the size particles, the more often one is able to do so but also puts a heavy responsibility on one to make sure that their mix does not dry out to the point of stressing root systems.........If you can prove to me that a slow drip method in a contaiener, even though the mix is already wet or moist, provides oxygen and cures rot, I will believe it.

It is also important to keep newly transplanted or bare rooted plants roots moist as Atheen did while they find their way deeper into our containers, never letting them go too dry. That is done by evenly watering them in porous mixes that do not wick like the finer mixes that most do not like to use.

I don't think anyone here has taught us scientifically to do that, and not on the Container Forums which I have been a part of for years, unless I missed something. If I have, please direct me there. Thanks

I know that Tapla who has been my mentor for years has never suggested a slow drip method to cure rot.

Pip, You did not even address my questions.. Why?

Atheen, that is very sound advice, those threads you took the time to share, thank you. No one is confused here except for maybe the newbies and the one that does not dispense sound advice. No one is over thinking it as suggested, but just asking questions to determine whether or not it's sound advice.

Mike

The only way to deal with root-rot is to halt the rotting process.

How is that achieved? Typically, one addresses the conditions that are facilitating the rot. Most often, changing out an overly moisture retentive potting mix.

Using a porous, free-draining mix will allow you to water regularly, and is based on the idea of bringing oxygen in the water into the root-zone. After a recent transplant into the 5-1-1, for example, you will need to water more often to keep the upper inches of mix moist, which keeps the healthy living roots alive. As Mike said, once the roots have colonized the new mix, then the watering frequency can be reduced.

Josh

Thanks Josh! I have been watering the new transplants daily, especially the weak Meyer. All appears well so far. It will be interesting to see how long it takes her to recover. She should be much happier now...

You are welcome! I hope the Meyer recuperates quickly.

I know you won't forget to fertilize as soon as the tree is stabilized.

Josh

I worked in Oscomote plus into the mix along with a little lime. No FP yet...

Wait a week from re-potting to Foliage Pro. When you do FP, use 1/2 strength, then hit it again a week later at full strength. If you see yellow leaves, go heavy! :-D

Josh

Thank you! Will do!!!