Is the family room an addition then?

If the stair runs east - west along the north side of the kitchen, can the door to the stair move from the south (kitchen) side to the north side?

How long is the "current wall" between the dining and kitchen? The one you want to remove?

78"


How big is the "cubby space"? Is it large enough for a pantry closet or refrigerator to fit in there?

The cubby space starts 41 inches from the floor so no fridge. It could be a pantry (I use it for pots/pans and my microwave now). I played around with the idea of a wall oven in there, but I can't see how that would help anything. We could put a fridge or pantry in front of the cubby opening.


One problem with moving the kitchen to the dining area, is that it would also be the walkway from the living room to the family room. Plus, as you mentioned, the 9 x 9 space for the dining would be small.

Yep, the walk-thru kitchen is my biggest worry. But what's worse: a cramped kitchen to the side or a larger kitchen that's walk thru? Hence my dilemma! The dining space could be better in the small space with the use of nook style table and benches (we have held zero formal dinners anyway--we eat as many meals in our family room as we do in our dining room!).

Is the family room an addition then?

Yes

If the stair runs east - west along the north side of the kitchen, can the door to the stair move from the south (kitchen) side to the north side?

Yes. I actually brought up that idea to my husband yesterday. The stairs would then open right next to our living room fire place. It would be awkward but workable. The floor plan fails to show that we have a an outside door off the driveway that also opens onto the landing of the basement stairs. So essentially we would have two entrances in the living room. What are the disadvantages of having the basement access be NOT from the kitchen?

Would it make sense to turn your front room into a dining room and turn the present kitchen/dining into kitchen only?

"Would it make sense to turn your front room into a dining room and turn the present kitchen/dining into kitchen only?" I can't see that working. It would feel like you just put a dining room table in your living room.

"About the cubby. If it starts 41" from the floor... you can only use
it for storage. I was thinking a fridge space. If you put something
in front of it, you lose the cubby space, unless you can open the wall
inside the cubby, from the dining space and reach in, from the dining
room." I can open the cubby on the dining room side or living room side. I thought about putting the range or fridge in front of the cubby, then opening it on the dining room side for storage.

"I am afraid, that 78" is not enough room for a sink and dishwasher
and enough counter space to make you happy. It would still feel
cramped. (if you were to make that wall a 1/2 wall or 'island' for your
sink." I only need about 60" for the sink and DW island. There wouldn't be much counter space on that island but if my main row of appliances and cabinets was on the 13 foot dining room wall, I would have 48-72 more inches of counter space there. But I am worried about the overall space feeling cramped. And I am worried about a walk through kitchen.

My range is currently against the dining room wall, fridge in SE corner, DW under south window, sink in corner between range and DW (very very very tight).

Current kitchen view from dining room

Possible design #7: I think even with a counter depth fridge it might be tight between the fridge and DW counter area, even with 12 deep pantries next to the fridge. I think this design would also have very little storage space.

This is what Lowe's proposed. I'm not thrilled with it but it might be my best bet.

Is the only access to the attic through that cubby? Are you able to look at the cubby from the under the house and see what is there? I had something similar and it was the space for an old hot water heater and could be easily demolished.

Front room dining rooms -- even with fireplaces -- are quite common from what I see in online home tours. Could you move furniture around and put your dining set in there just to try it out before you invest in a smaller kitchen? Perhaps there's room to flank your fireplace with a couple of cozy chairs to make it a dining room with a small sitting area.

Alternatively, you could put the kitchen (more expensive to move plumbing, etc) in the addition or the dining in the addition.

Are you in a climate where it would be useful to have a mudroom type of wall on the east wall near the basement/back door?

I'm wondering if I could do this:http://pinchofyum.com/kitchen-remodel-final-reveal?show_all_comments=true#comment-623671

How much space do you need between the end of a peninsula and the another item?

Under the cubby is my staircase :(

I'm going to play around with the idea of the dining room in the living room. We really don't use the living much at all so it makes sense.

Have you seen the New to Kitchens thread? Lots of helpful info.

I think your question above is about landing space next to a cooktop. In which case, check out this one: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

Do you have a full-floor layout? One that includes the Family Room, etc.? It really helps us to understand how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the house and how traffic flows through and around the Kitchen.

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information

How high off the floor are the windows? (I'm assuming more than 36", but I wanted to check.)

Are you willing to change/move/add windows? Doors/doorways?

Where is the front door, through the Living Room?

It says "attic access" Is it your only attic access?

Thanks for the layout link. I will work on that.

How high off the floor are the windows? (I'm assuming more than 36", but I wanted to check.)--41 inches floor to sill

Are you willing to change/move/add windows? Doors/doorways?--Yes

Where is the front door, through the Living Room?--Yes

Alternatively, you could put the kitchen (more expensive to move plumbing, etc) in the addition or the dining in the addition---the addition is windows on 3 walls, but only 28" off the floor. I would love to have part of the kitchen in there but the windows are too low. There's a crawl space under the addition.

Are you in a climate where it would be useful to have a mudroom type of wall on the east wall near the basement/back door?--no mud room needed, but what were you thinking?

The cubby is my only attic access but we could move it if its worth it.

So I need about 42-48" of aisle space between the end of the peninsula and whatever is across from it, especially if it opens? I'm not sure my idea would work then :( Jez, this room is tight!

This is an idea, not a plan per se. The idea here is to use the walk-through space for stuff others need to get to and consolidate your cooking uses on the window wall. The prep sink is to help you stop need to cross the walkway with full pans of water or very hot water to get to a drain (since the plumbing is right there. The little storage filled entryway to the kitchen/dining is to provide a visual bridge from the living room (and it looks like it has no daylight anyway).

If you don't use the living room, I'd think about doing a living/dining combo room, then change out the table/bench seat for a 3-4 seat counter height table that could be extra prep space for you and perhaps some extra storage.

There's likely a billion things wrong with this, but it might help spark other ideas.

This is kind of a combination of all the plans, with secret door
pantries that open to the weird cubby, and an integrated cutting board
to increase prep space between the sink and range. The sink is
off-center, but the faucet can be centered on the window to help disguise
that fact.
There is a mobile cart stored in the top corner, if you ever need more counter space.

ETA, you might consider moving the FR door over, to lengthen the space available on the top wall--that might be easier and less awkward than moving the basement and side entries to the LR:

If you move the basement entry to the LR and the cubby entry elsewhere you can consider something like this.

sena01: Thanks! What program did you use to make that? Is it something free and user friendly?

I like mamagoose's plan. In addition to decent sized landing zones on either side of the sink and stove, it really gives you a nice long prep area. If you go with a single bowl sink and center the faucet under the window it will look just fine. If you could remove the table from the kitchen-that you could have storage across that entire wall. Something to consider if this is a smaller older house.

That being said, I still can't understand how the whole house comes together. I do recommend that you post a floor plan of that first floor so that everyone understands how everything goes together.

In case this helps . . . a rough full layout of the house (it's a ranch)

Last night my thoughts headed towards putting the kitchen in the family room. The windows are 27" from the floor. I could remove the left 1st and 3rd window, float a sink in front of the middle window, remove the left wall between the family room dining room and do something like this . . .

I have no idea how much it would cost to get rid of those two windows so I will have to do some homework. There is a gas line in there already so that works. And plumbing costs? (There is a crawl space under the family room). Or are these the least of my troubles with this idea?

Also, what in the world would I do with the old kitchen??!!

But the lighting! Beautiful! I would have six huge windows in the kitchen!

Kitchen could become mudroom, pantry, and laundry--you already have plumbing.

Here's a link to the free trial version of the program I used.

But isn't the family room the one you actually use?? If it becomes the kitchen, would you enjoy using the living room?

I think your space is great. Moving the sink is not as easy as one might think. However I totally get that..it should overlook a window. When looking for a kitchen remodeler, they should just walk in and find out what 'you want'. A picture and a few wants and needs should do the trick.

Ask them for references and pictures of their work. If they don't have this, they may not be what you want. A seasoned professional should be able to guide you and make this happen for you.

Ask for licenses and to see samples as well. Every contractor should have this and be prepared to show it. They should take measurments and then leave you with an estimate of costs based on your choices and how many doors, drawer and the countertops length.

Its not rocket science

but if you have 4 estimates and can't choose yet, it's possible that you are shooting too low on the budget. For a average 9x12 kitchen remodel (cabinets and countertops) figure anywhere from $8,000-$16,000. It could go higher if you are doing the floor, backsplash, granite, etc. Appliances themselves could be around$,7000 for a full appliance package.

Best of luck and if you need any more advice, we are here to help!

This kitchen is 8x12 and the countertops are stone. They got exactly what they wanted in terms of switching the appliances around. THe room is more functional and beautiful!

No trolling for business on this site, please.

ascorsonelli: But isn't the family room the one you actually use?? If it becomes the kitchen, would you enjoy using the living room?

--- We are all in there now! We use the family room more than any
other room. I think we would be fine in the living room though. Kids
are getting bigger and it is getting cramped in here. . . . its hard to
say until it happens, right? We also have a finished basement with
couches, TV, game system, that no one ever uses but they might if we
make room transitions.

Unfortunately, most remodeling "experts" are not very good Kitchen Designers - unless they have one on staff. This is also true of architects. Architects and contractors (remodelers) have their place and expertise, but that rarely includes designing a kitchen that follows the "best practices" or the good design guidelines. Sadly, even some professional KDs also either don't know or ignore the best practices and guidelines as well. If you have a KD who is certified by the NKBA, then they should at least be aware of them, but whether they put them into practice is unknown. If you want a Kitchen that is truly functional as well as meets your needs, I strongly recommend two things:

• Take advantage of the people here - both to work out what you think you want and to vet designs you get from KDs
• Be heavily involved in the planning and design of your project - don't just hand it over to a KD / Contractor / Architect

You're doing the above now - that's great! Keep it up and you will end up with a well-thought out design that works for the needs and wants of you and your family.

+++++++++++++++

Regarding moving a sink...Moving a sink is actually pretty easy if you have a basement or even a crawl space below - which you have. It's when a house is on a slab that it's more expensive/work. It might be a bit more if you have to break into the foundation b/w the original house and the addition, but before you assume it will be too expensive, get some estimates. (We moved one sink and added another when we remodeled our Kitchen and the cost was a very small part of the entire remodel cost/effort.)

In general, never assume something will cost too much, always find out! Sometimes you will be pleasantly surprised! (And, yes, sometimes it may be a not-so-pleasant surprise!)

"...We also have a finished basement with couches, TV, game system, that no one ever uses but they might if we make room transitions..."

Wait until your kids hit their teens! :-)

Edited to add:

Personally, I would rather have the "Family Room" be the room with the fireplace, but then I love fires!

I have to agree that your family room is rather small, so if you're OK with moving the Kitchen to the addition and it's not a budget-buster, I think you should work with the idea a bit. One idea is to create a small "Sitting Room" or Library in the old Kitchen - a place where someone can go and get away from everything. Or, it could be a small Office. Or, redo the entire space and make a Family Room + Foyer + Dining Room + Laundry Room/Utility Room. Or, let your imagination roam and think about what you might like!

Windows...instead of eliminating windows, would you be willing to change some of them to windows higher above the floor - say 36"? We replaced a bay window that was 22" off the floor with one that's 36" off the finished floor and ran a counter across it - at counter-height.

You will probably need to eliminate some windows, but not all.

See this thread: counter height window pictures please

I'm thinking of a way to totally blow your budget :-)

Does your house have only one bathroom right now?

benjesbride: I think I see where you are headed . . . don't go there! We have two full baths anyway( oddly enough, for our tiny house. One is in the basement.)

buehl: We could replace the windows instead of remove. I figured we wouldn't want a window behind the range so to be symetrical and to make room for upper cabinets I thought remove another! Taking out two windows still leaves me with 55% of the walls as windows. The room would look nice with no uppers though :) And if using the family as a kitchen gives me excess space, well, then, that's a good problem!

I wonder how the loss of the family room would affect the home value? I'd hate to have the new kitchen not compensate for it. But as someone mentioned, the family room is very big anyway (seriously, my family of four doesn't fit now that the kids are getting bigger---I even proposed a transition of family room activities to living room over the winter but I was ignored)

Here's another: Great solutions for low windowshttps://www.houzz.com/magazine/great-solutions-for-low-kitchen-windowsills-stsetivw-vs~25381595

Yep- I was going to play around with turning the small bedroom into your dining room, the dining room into your kitchen, and the present family room and part of the kitchen into a master suite :-)

if you have a basement family room--especially with a bathroom--I don't think it will negatively impact your home value. On the contrary I think a larger kitchen on the back of the house with possible addition of side mudroom/laundry would be a big value gain.

Thanks so much for all of your ideas and especially your encouragement! I have combined much of your advice into some of the following. Let me know what you think :)

Here are couple layout ideas I had. We'll call the first one Y (where the family room is converted to a dining area) and the second one Z (where the family room remains relatively unchanged).

Here's Y (family room converted to dining area):

Here's Z (family room remains unchanged):

Pros and Cons:

Y Pros: bigger kitchen with more cabinet space than Z; kitchen feels roomy

Y Cons: likely slight more expensive, we spend a ton of time in the family room and we would need to move our family room activities to the living room

Z Pros: likely less expensive, dining area is much closer to kitchen

Z Cons: less cabinet space, we keep the family room as is

________________________________________________

I am more worried about my kitchen layout than I am about cabinet and counter space. I want light in the kitchen and I don't want it to feel too crowded. We almost NEVER have formal dinners so the small option Z might be a good idea.

Ideas? Changes? Thanks for our help!