I'll chime in, even if I do not grow any hibiscus (sorry Cindy) and I am only growing plants the way Al suggests for less than 5 years.

Hibiscus or not, the change I found in my plants because of root pruning, proper full repotting (which includes bare rooting) and using much better mix than typical bagged soil is such that I will continue with this practice as long as I grow any plants. That includes succulents too.

Even with my short experience, nothing died from correct root pruning and timely repotting. Some that suffered were plants that I didn't get ready for and/or skipped some important steps - I have left bare rooted plant in bucket of water that dried out for too long (my fault)...I didn't have potting mix ready before starting and it took me too long after to put it together (my fault)...I put just root pruned and repotted plant into hot, blazing sun immediately after, even if plant was in partial sun before (my fault)...and few more 'my faults'. The plants didn't die, but suffered (some more, some less).

I have lost plants, many before I read this forum first time, and some (much less even with many, many more I have collected in past 4 years) since. I have made mistakes, and am trying to learn from them and not repeat same ones. But I can't think of one plant that died from root pruning.

The positive results are visible the same season. Plants that got major root pruning are growing much better than ever - that means, to me, that they really needed it.

I would not do a comparison testing (I am not saying that is not a good idea), since I don't want to let any of my plants to grow in, what I now consider, inferior conditions.

It died back to the stump, it was growing back from there. The crown was completely dead.

Caldwell,

You yourself have seen examples of how Al digs out large trees, and cuts them down to stumps, yet they grow back with vigor... I don't believe that a bit of root pruning and a bit of top pruning could have done that kind of damage! Not that I see you as not telling the truth, but I'll bet you it wasn't the pruning alone.

Caldwell - who killed your plant?

Cindy - it might still have been grower error. Moisture meters don't really measure moisture - they measure electrical conductivity. To prove this to yourself, clean the probe and put it in a cup of distilled water and note the "DRY" read. Then sprinkle in some salt and watch the water turn from dry to wet. A wooden dowel like I described to you at an earlier point in time is a much more reliable 'tell' than your moisture probe.

Al

I think it was the transplant shock (which was the result of the root pruning) that killed the crown. Now all I have are 2 pitiful watersprouts on the stump. I do agree with tapla on one thing, a piece of wood (I use a toothpick for smaller plants such as orchids) can tell you if the soil is wet or not.

idk. when i repotted it again, the dirt didnt seem wet, hardly damp. i sprayed the pot for fungus and bugs.

I asked WHO killed Caldwell's plant, not WHAT killed it.

Cindy - I said DISTILLED water. Tap water has a LOT of dissolved solids that increase electric conductivity. Distilled water is deionized, which is why it reads "DRY" - it doesn't appreciably conduct electricity until you add salt.

Al

al. i put it in rain water.

Rain water has more than enough contamination to make it conductive. Lacking the ability to exchange electrons,distilled water can't conduct electricity. Rain, on the other hand, is considered a fair conductor of electricity because it contains impurities from the atmosphere. Water from your tap is a conductor due to its inclusion of dissolved mineral salts.

Al

well i didnt have any distilled water. guess ill go back to the finger test then. :)

al-did u know your 511 mix is famous online? some guy has a video on utube of how to mix it! says he gott it from some guy named al!

Hi Cindy.. You just made me think of a picture that I saw the other day.. It reminded me of Josh!!

He has a video on u tube about Al's 5-1-1 mix.. We need to get him to make one of the Gritty too!!! ;-)

Have a great day.. Oh.. If you would like some seeds of my Hardy Hibscus called Texas Star, let me know.. I'll have plenty!!!

Al.. This made me think of Josh.. Lolololol..

Laura

Yes, I knew that, Cindy. Thanks. It's been steadily gaining favor since about 2004, and has really taken off in a big way the last few years. There is a huge number of references online to both the 5:1:1 mix and the gritty mix because they work so well and make growing soo much easier. Lots of people making and selling the gritty mix, too.

Fighting your soil for control of your plant's root health and o/a vitality takes a lot of the joy out of growing things, as I think you're finding out.

Al

im wondering where i can find the pine bark fines? i havent seen any locally..

Where do you live?

Al

If you have trouble finding the ingredients, there are many people selling the completed mixes online (as Al said). I have found that you often have to be flexible in finding the right ingredients... You also have to keep your eyes peeled at all times.

Your hardy hibiscus would be bigger, 3-4' x 3', with more flowers planted in the ground. I live in zone 4 and have had my hardy hibiscus come back reliably. I make sure they have been watered well in the fall and after frost cut the stems to 4-6 inches and after the ground is frozen add 4-5 inches of shredded leaves which are remove the next April before new growth late May/early June. Your potted plant is a shadow of what it could be.

Hardies the size of dinner plates:

im z4

mnsw do you have them by a house on so, w,e side? last yr it was 3ft.

Cypress mulch has allelopathic properties, making it inappropriate as an ingredient in container media.

Zone 4 covers a lot of territory, and doesn't help me help you find pine bark. Sorry.

Al

home depot has pine bark nuggets. i have to order it. i can get pine bark mulch, not fines. ill google it some more. y dont u sell it? im in the middle of mn.

You have to be careful with whatever says mulch or nuggets. Mulch can be all shredded stuff and nuggets can be quite large and mostly unusable.

Also if you are specific about your location (city/county) then Al can help. He is very good (actually amazing) with sources across the country.

Al, nice hibiscuses. Are they yours?

Al, i found some potting soil at walmart. it has processed pine bark, canadian sphagnum peat moss, reed sedge peat, and sand or composted rice hulls, perlite and limestone. it was $2.44 for a 14qt bag. :)

i had a midnight marvel. it bloomed the first year. then it never broke dormancy the next year. :(

Hi guys. I've been away for several days (Chicago Botanic Garden, where I attended the Midwest Bonsai Society show I have been attending annually for the last 20+ years).

ToC - Thanks! I appreciate the kind words.

P & S - yes, they're all my plants. I made the cart in the pics and the soil all the plants are in, too (except those growing in the ground. I haven't bought a commercially prepared soil for more than 30 years - and wouldn't have it any other way.

Cindy K - Since the quartzite I use in my soils is mined in New Ulm, MN, and you mentioned you have access to pine bark (hopefully in an appropriate size), I strongly encourage you to make a batch or two of your own media. If you give me your zip code, I'll tell you where to find Turface MVP). If you're willing to screen the ingredients that go into the soils, you'll be able to make either 5:1:1 or the gritty mix. I'm pretty good at reading what's between the lines, in the numerous conversations we've had - so what say ye? ........ and I'd bet a LOT that you can turn your growing experience completely around and eliminate at least 90% of the frustrations you've been dealing with by making your own soils. Interested in pursuing that thought and seeing what you can do about turning over a new leaf?

Al

http://www.turface.com/find-a-distributor

Use this ^^^ to find Turface MVP distributors. Call rural feed stores that cater to those that raise fowl for the table and ask for #2 Cherrystone (poultry grit in #2 size). Also, find a supplier of pine or fir bark in an appropriate size. Once you have the ingredients. I'll help you put it all together.

Al

i researched turface. it said that schultz aquatic soil is the same as turface.

i can get a #1" or #3 poultry grit locally. is it better to go finer or courser?

Schultz Aquatic Soil is indeed the same product as Turface MVP. Keep looking (make a few more calls) for #2. #3 is too large and #1 too small.

Al

ok i found the #2 cherrystone. 50lb for $5.45 w/tax. having trouble with the turface or aquatic soil.

Great find.I wish I could find cherrystone here locally and that price is awesome cindy. I like the look of cherrystone at least something different from granite grit. I find turface here at a place caters to golf courses besides landscapers. Apparently they use this stuff in golf courses and it keeps the turf robust and healthy.

Al, i can get pond soil its 10.45 forva 10lb bag. kind of expensive. is 10lb enough?

tropic, i found it at a poultry supply store.

Did you use the dealer locater For Turface that I provided the link for?

Al

yes al i did. nothing happened when i keyed in my zipcode...

al, can i use natural clay kitty litter?

cindy,

I do believe you can use kitty litter, but you will need to screen it to the right size. The size you will want is about 3/8th inch particles.

I also had trouble with the Turface. You can also use oil absorbent in the place of Turface. I got some from Advance Auto Parts, and screened that. Totally usable. I assume you could find a similar product at just about any auto parts place.

Good luck!

~palmsandsnow

did no one else here think that the original poster showed a "luna" hibiscus that had a woody stem, not the stem of a hardy hibiscus, which die back to the ground each year. it looked like she had a stem that prevailed, as in shrub. also hardy hibiscus always have multiple stems. her plant may have been mismarked at the nursery. and...the "Luna" may be the color name (as in white/moon color).

i have looked online and it resembles a moon river. yes i believe it was mis-marked.

It bloomed! This is the plant from the top of thread. Smaller, but so is the plant!

Congratulations!! She is quite beautiful!!!

Laura

Wonderful bloom. Congrats.

it has a few more buds, they are alot smaller than this one. Its supposed to be a giant.

Buds start out small but considering that it is a small plant and probably got stressed out in some way those blooms are still quite big. Give it a winter dormancy. I think you said it is a perennial. It will come back stronger. Bury it in yard and pile up leaves on it. It will break dormancy late - may be June. Or you can bring it in earlier in spring (feb, march) and it will break dormancy quicker.

tropic, i have a root cellar it stsys cold in there, think ill set them in there and put in ground in spring.

Since this thread; I've never noticed so many "Hardy Hibiscus" while nursery hopping. My Mom also uses the term "As big as dinner plates" lol.

cindy - for Pine bark; check your area for "Bulk" Sand & Gravel CO.'s. That's where I finally found mine. For Fir bark, check local Orchid society. IMO, for long term plantings, I would never buy anything from WM, or HD. For Annuals, the cheap stuff works as a $$ saver just fine.

It can be time consuming; but satisfying, and make sure you remove as much "Sap wood" and splinters as possible.

Screen your Turface/grit to size in the same manner, but take one extra step at the end; and give it a good rinse (preferably w/ warm water) to remove all the dust.

IMPORTANT: When screening dry materials, ALWAYS wear a dust mask!! It's also helpful to place a fan behind you; to blow the dust away from yourself. ;-)

Rob

Since this thread; I've never noticed so many "Hardy Hibiscus" while nursery hopping. My Mom also uses the term "As big as dinner plates" lol.

cindy - for Pine bark; check your area for "Bulk" Sand & Gravel CO.'s. That's where I finally found mine. For Fir bark, check local Orchid society. IMO, for long term plantings, I would never buy anything from WM, or HD. For Annuals, the cheap stuff works as a $$ saver just fine.

It can be time consuming; but satisfying, and make sure you remove as much "Sap wood" and splinters as possible.

Screen your Turface/grit to size in the same manner, but take one extra step at the end; and give it a good rinse (preferably w/ warm water) to remove all the dust.

IMPORTANT: When screening dry materials, ALWAYS wear a dust mask!! It's also helpful to place a fan behind you; to blow the dust away from yourself. ;-)

Rob