We have 6 children, and our double ovens see a lot of every day use!

Get ovens in the very best as you can for the price you can pay. Function for you should far far exceed form. You USE your ovens. Don't get caught up in designing the kitchen so much that you lose function. Remember that a new white oven might not be the same white as the old white fridge and the two of them clashing would be worse than introducing another finish. If you're really determined, you could remove the doors and have them painted white, but why would you do that, really? You can also have your oven cabinet made with a tambour or pocketing door, like a TV cabinet, so you can hide your ovens when not in use...but you shouldn't use the ovens with the cabinet closed, and with six kids potentially getting distracted and forgetting (not to mention husband, parents, your siblings, etc.), I wouldn't chance it.

The main reason the picture in your head of a stainless oven next to your white fridge looks funny is because you're concentrating on designing your kitchen. If you weren't so focused on the details you'd see a perfectly normal and nice kitchen happening. Try to find some pictures online or in magazines to reassure yourself, but try to see them as you're walking by once you've found them, the way you would see your kitchen walking into your house, not poring over them and focused on the details.

A Frigidaire oven is made by the same parent company as Electrolux, but that doesn't make it the same as an Electrolux oven. The Kenmore is probably pretty similar to the Frigidaire however. I think you'd be much happier with an actual Electrolux.

As to the cooktop, same thing, only there's not a big enough difference in induction cooktops to make choosing on the basis of looks out of the question. You don't say what color your counters are going to be. A black induction cooktop will blend best with dark counters. The gray more for light to medium-light counters. It doesn't matter what colors the other appliances are, though if you go with a stainless oven, it'll tie in with the gray.

I was planning on a white Jenn Air wall oven before I switched to my navy blue. So at least 2 years ago, Jenn Air had white.

According to AJ Madison, GE makes a white double oven.

Thank you. I knew that GE made white, but I had not checked Jenn-Air. I can't find a white double oven on Jenn-Air's website now, either, so it would seem that they no longer make it either! That was a good suggestion to call, so I did, but Electrolux no longer offers a white double oven. Only stainless. I had not really considered GE or Jenn Air brands in a wall oven because I felt the consensus here was that the Electrolux, etc... were superior ovens. So, truly, I am very focused on function! My enormous Samsung is all dinged up, and a sleeker counter-depth fridge would likely look better, but I love my fridge. I just wish our constraints didn't mean settling for function over form *every* time. We've been through countless configurations, but those darn ovens (and the refrigerator) can only be front and center. I really don't care for the look of the Electrolux when I imagine it in my style home, but I didn't mind the look of the white ones, and it is just frustrating that they AND Bosch seem to have stopped making them in white. Haven't called Bosch, but I'm not hopeful since I simply can't find it anywhere online. I was really hoping that there was some secret knowledge regarding this phenomenon that I had just missed but that the gurus here could guide me towards.

The GE that comes in white seems comparable in features to the Frigidaire, so am I right in guessing that if I did go the white appliance route, the Frigidaire would likely be more comparable to the Electrolux?

My counters will be butcher block, and my cabinets will be painted a dark blue-gray, which was why I was looking at the gray GE induction top, but I really prefer the layout of the 36" GE top to the other brands, even the pricier ones like Miele, and the fact that it came in gray was just a happy accident. My understanding from reading here was that induction cooktops were comparable across the board in reliability and functionability and that features and layout were the deciding factor there.

And, fwiw, I can't find a Kenmore 30" electric double wall oven (plain or convection) in white either!

Sears web site has a Kenmore Elite 30" white double oven with convection in both. It's probably made by Electrolux.

Thanks! Of course I didn't look at Sears, lol. I had looked at the electric wall ovens on the Kenmore site and there is not a white one! I wonder if they are selling their inventory but not making more?

Wow at the sale Sears is having now, too! ALL the Kenmore wall ovens are 50% off! Of all the stainless options of ovens that are highly recommended here on the forum, the Kenmore Pro is the one I like the look of the best. I think it is the lack of black. It just looks less slick and more classic to me.

Yes, Lily's Mom, I agree with so much of what you said. I could not go to a counter depth fridge! Not unless I had two of them. We toy with the idea of a second refrigerator as it is, but we don't have anywhere to put one. I have been on the kitchen forum with my layout, and all things considered, my current layout is the best I can do. My husband I are pretty creative when it comes to this sort of thing, and there is just no creative solution. Even solutions that cost a ton of money we don't have don't buy us much at all.

And I have considered that I could very well be pulling my hair out to find a white oven only to have my fridge, which is already 5 years old, die and not be able to replace it with white! My thought, though, was that we'd just go to panels at that point. I have been looking at Craig's List, and I wonder if that is my best bet to see what my options are in a few years. Lots of people get rid of ovens during remodels. There is a $225 12 year old white Dacor that has been tempting me because I feel like a model bought then potentially has a good bit of life left, and truly, anything that doesn't have less space than what I have now is likely an upgrade! So a place holder might be my best bet at this stage. My husband will be building our cabinets anyway, so modifying them for new ovens is not a great expense, though it would be a big pain, so I go back and forth between buying my "forever" oven (or my next 10 year oven, lol) and an older model that might last just as long because they were made a bit better or might die in a year because it is old.

I know you already have the fridge, but in terms of hierarchy of form and function for appliances, oven quality is the most variable and if you cook and bake every day the quality of the oven is going to have a huge impact on the quality of your cooking life. Given the colors you're talking about, I get why you don't like the idea of the stainless for looks, but to be putting this much effort into getting a potentially inferior oven just doesn't seem worth it. The function impact is highest for ovens, then cooktops, with fridges coming in last.

he does not care if his drill press matches his chop saw

LOL! Too true!

Yes, solid fuel stoves tended to be black so the soot wouldn't show as badly (some things stay the same). Early electric appliances tended to be black, white or stainless -- or highly ornate like one 1920's range I love that was made to look like a dresser faced in brown marble -- (some things stay the same).

Lol about the workshop tools! Very true. The analogy also holds true that some people with money to burn will buy the same brand for every tool so that they all "match' lol. And it was actually when dh was showing me his new belt sander/spindle sander and I chatted about appliances that a lightbulb went off for him that my choosing an oven or cooktop was like his choosing what tool to buy!

Thank you all. My older kids are at camp this week, so I met my husband for lunch at the appliance store just to wrap my head around the different models in person. It helped that I had started to resolve myself to the fact that I would likely get stainless, and it seems to be true. Even the convection double ovens that come in white don't have convection on the bottom oven, so I think I will have to start over in my research from the beginning with the idea that I am no longer looking for a white appliance specifically and need to just choose the oven I want outside of that qualification.

I do think that while, certainly, there was less pressure in the past for your appliances to match, they were also much more standard. You weren't mixing disparately different designs (unless you had bought matching harvest gold or avocado, lol).

Here's the Kenmore Elite (made by GE) that has convection in both ovens

http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-30inch-electric-double-wall-oven-white/p-02248452000P?plpSellerId=Sears&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

Do you recommend the Kitchen Aid? I have not come across much about its performance.

Consumer Reports likes them. Its one of their recommended "buy" models based upon their testing of baking, broiling & self cleaning.

Opinions on KitchenAid ovens are all over the map. They used to be tolerably good for the price. More recently I've seen more dissatisfaction. Their early convection wasn't good, though I'm sure that must have been fixed by now, but there are reports of very uneven baking. It's hard to tell whether that's variability in oven quality, consumer to consumer, because every appliance will have some bad units complete with complaints, or whether it's uneven ovens across the board but some users being more demanding, whether in their usage or their acceptance of iffy quality.

With all ovens, there are quirks. I have one of the very best ovens made (and priciest), but it still has a quirk or two. The question is if it performs the way you expect. You might be okay with having to turn a tray of cookies halfway through baking, or not. You might be okay with the cookies along the edges being a lot browner than the ones in the middle, or not. I've cooked and baked in an oven (came with the house) that couldn't hold a particular temperature and had hot and cool spots. I made it work. Except for souffles. :) A good cook can surmount the issues. But that bad oven heard quite a bit of invective ranging from the whiny to the salty to the erudite. It may tell you something that while the workers wanted the disgusting old carpet and the 25 year old fridge with a broken light socket and shelf supports, but I couldn't give away the oven for anything.

So, anyway, of the ovens you've mentioned, aggregating what I've read from people who use them, I'd be most confident recommending Electrolux. Bosch also seems to have fans. KitchenAid might be okay, but, like you, I haven't seen many recent good reviews, which could mean that the buyers are content, that there aren't enough buyers, or that it's just not bad enough to complain about or good enough to praise.

Thank you! Electrolux is the only oven I can find any consistent praise on how well it cooks, which is my first concern, longevity and reliability being a close second. They didn't have it on display at the appliance store we went to, the only one we've ever bought from outside of sales at big home centers or the Sears Outlet. I always have liked them there, and they had a single Electrolux range on display. They said they've had more service calls on Electrolux than they would like and so while they carry it and can get it for me, they don't really endorse it. I wonder, though, if it was their experience with other appliances besides ovens that gave them this across the brand mentality rather than the ovens specifically? It did give me pause, but then again the guy had me looking at GEs, and after researching them upon returning home, I just really don't trust it is the best oven for the money. Maybe GEs really are more reliable? But if they don't bake well, why bother?

Can't say about their wall ovens but my GE Profile electric range bakes quite nicely for what I do with it.

Lily'smom gave you good advice. Never rely on the word of a salesman.

What that person was saying may actually be true, but the question is why is it true? Are they more calls altogether or more warranty calls? The reason for the blanket one year warranty that most appliances have is that things shake loose or break in transit, and there are potential faults that don't show up in factory testing. They figure a year of use will give you a chance to find all the issues. I don't know about Electrolux in this case, but some companies may put more money and effort into preventing these kinds of calls, and others may put it into customer service.

Next, question: Is it that Electrolux fails more or is it that Electrolux owners are pickier and call to get things fixed? Is it that E. fails more, or that their owners cook more and therefore put more stress on it? Is it that E. fails more, or that the customer is so used to a better oven that when it has a problem they want it fixed?

So even if it isn't trickery and falsehood, the statement doesn't actually tell you much.

By scouring the internet, I was able to find a seller who has white single 27" electrolux wall ovens for $999. Even if we don't go with these, 27" are significantly cheaper when shopping for deals, presumably because they are less popular. My current 24" double suits my needs well, and if a large jelly roll pan fits in the 27", I am sure it will be fine, and we could put them in 30" cabinet(s) so that our choices are flexible down the road.

So my questions are two-fold:

SIZE: I will try to find a 27" electrolux locally to put my pans in in person, but does anyone know off the top of their head if this size holds large jelly roll pans? I know they'd need to fit side to side in a modern oven. In my oven they fit front to back.

LOCATION: I know two singles are often recommended because they are generally more reliable and you can mount two at the ideal height. I don't have the room to do that, but it does open possibilities for putting the second/lower oven elsewhere in the kitchen. It may still make the most sense to put them one over the other (my husband is building the cabinets, so we can do whatever we want), but I had not considered the advantages of separate ovens before now in my layout.

This is the most current image I have. It is not completely accurate since we've decided to nix the tall pantry to the right of the fridge and scooch the fridge over next to a 8" pull out, allowing for 30" on either side of the cooktop and 30" cabinet for ovens. Right now, I envision the space to the left of the cooktop as a baking center where I can leave my stand mixer out on the counter. I am not seeing a huge advantage to having the oven somewhere else unless it won't quite fit with the upper at the optimal height, but I am open to the wisdom of others.

Off topic a bit, it looks like your walking area between the table and the counter is too tight, and there's practically no space between the bench and the credenza. Those might just be place holders. If you're going this direction, I highly suggest you get backless pedestal stools that can fit entirely under the counter, and chairs with tubular box stands rather than legs. That will make more room for feet and much less chance of hooking a foot on a chair leg and taking a tumble. You can split the credenza into two units that go in the corners, making more room for everything.

Re the ovens, I get why you need two with the size of your family, but your kitchen is straining. I don't see how you can get two in without having a low one. OTOH, ovens are the one thing that can be pushed away out of the main work zone if needed. Theoretically, if you need to, you can put one oven in that open corner in the dining area. Stacking would probably work best. You can also put some pantry storage elsewhere.

As to 27" ovens, they used to be the standard size. They're mostly made currently to retrofit into older kitchens. Your choices if you want to go with them would be A) decide that saving 3" and getting your white ovens is worth possibly redoing everything before the kids are all grown if the ovens fail (expect 7-20 years...it's unpredictable, but with your usage, I wouldn't bet on the 20). B) Make the oven cabinet big enough to accommodate 30" ovens and trim it to hold the 27" ones, so you'll have some flexibility in the future if you need to make a change, without having to redo the whole kitchen.

As to pans, I'd guess (only guess) a standard jelly roll pan would fit sideways, but you really need to try it. A full sized flat cookie sheet probably won't fit, but it might, barely. As Lily'smom said, it's probably going to be the front to back measure that matters. You can sometimes cheat the measure by overlapping the rack, but you're encroaching on the air circulation space, which interferes with the performance, especially with convection.

An advantage to two singles, even if they're stacked, is that if one oven fails, you still have an oven. Not so usually with doubles.

Thanks, Plllog. I found a thread where someone measured their usable rack width of their 27" electrolux oven as 18.5, which should accomodate most pans, but I wish I could find the 27" to see in person. As it is, I cannot find the 30" on display either!

And yes, I just put in furniture that was available in the Ikea software. We have saddle stools that slide completely under the counter. They are very stable for kids but not so heavy as to cause injury if they should get pulled over, and I'll probably continue to go with that choice for the foreseeable future. The bench *does* get crowded with the buffet, and we may end up moving it to another part of the house. Or we may just live with it as one of those compromises you make in having a large family in an older home. We have a large screened in porch off the dining room, and hopefully we can turn that into a large dining area with room for a big, long table that won't be so cramped when our 5 boys are the size of men!

And we would definitely put the 27" ovens in a standard 30" cabinet so that our options are open down the road.

Miele also make white ovens but may be more $4 than you want to spend. They aren't double ovens per se, but you could install a regular convection with a smaller steam combi, speed oven, or microwave above it.

Thank you for your advice. I decided to try and find the Electrolux on display near me and found out on the website for one store that Electrolux actually had a rebate running this month on individual appliances! I met my husband and went in to look at them. While we were there, I suggested we look at induction cooktops just to see them in person, and they are rotating out their displays next month and had many for sale marked down, and the one cooktop display was almost empty except for the exact GE Cafe induction cooktop I wanted--for sale and reduced!! So we unexpectedly bought our appliances today, saved some money, and they will store them for free for four months while we figure out what to do with them, lol.

It was so helpful to know what I wanted going in and what questions to ask, etc..., so that I could recognize a good deal when I saw it! I am still flabbergasted about the cooktop. My husband asked if I wanted to go buy a lottery ticket today, too, lol.

Excellent news! Congratulations!

Attributed to Seneca -- Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

How great that they had just the thing you wanted!

My cabinetmaker asked to have my appliances delivered before he did his installation to be able to check for discrepancies from the spec sheets. I don't know if there were any, but obviously it's something he encounters, and I thought it was good advice.

What a lovely day!

Thanks for sharing in my celebrating!

I got the 30" Electrolux with the IQ controls.

Here is a link to a pdf with all the available rebates for Electrolux appliances. The offer ends September 10.

It's really the best to find out something is on sale for which you were expecting to pay full price! Congratulations on your "find".