Black pots (smallish), new growth, hot sun... wilting is quite normal. Sometimes i give my container trees a splash of water midday to help them adjust, when they have new growth. Your issue just looks like they want more water. As for the reddish growth; that is normal for a lot of lemons; it means you are taking good care of them; it should soon turn light green; then darker green.

I vote you planted it way too close to the glass. Heat and sun will reflect.

plus there is little room to grow.

johnmerr - thank you, i watered them and in less than an hour they look great. I'm always so concerned about overrwatering I always try to follow the rule and not water until a dowel comes out clean and the top of soil is dry etc etc. I think that maybe these rules cant be so cut and dry for all situations. Thats probably obvious...

I agree with John. That happens to my trees sometimes with new growth. They look healthy. I also sometimes splash them midday to cool them a bit.

I third John's and Laura's comments. This happens sometimes with new growth on a hot day. It doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong.

I would be VERY careful about watering it when your mix is still wet if it's a heavier finer mix. If it's a very porous one, the go ahead water away cooling the entire plant mass and pot down...........

It's not the air temps that is stressing it out, but the hot direct sun on black pots that is. If your soil is still damp and you water again, you will eventually over water it even in that hot sun in finer mixes because the roots have stopped taking up moisture which leads to leaf wilt..........It would be much better for you to partly cover it during the peak hot direct sun....There is no need for DIRECT HOT sun in black pots like that)

Over watering has never killed a tree. What actually does the killing of the tree is not the amount of water applied, but rather the lack of oxygen available to the root system, and this is caused by a medium that does not provide enough drainage to supply the root system with proper oxygen. Without oxygen, a tree's roots system cannot absorb water, no matter how much or how little water is available. A container grown citrus tree growing in a well aerated, well draining medium can be watered many times every day. Remember water is not the problem. The problem is a medium that does not have sufficient drainage. You can read about a trial that was conducted several year ago on the other citrus forum. A container citrus tree was automatically watered five times a day for two months, with NO PROBLEM - NO PROBLEM AT ALL. This was because the medium used in this experiment provided good aeration, and the proper drainage. Everything that is required by a citrus tree for it growth, for its health, for its stamina, indeed its very life, is delivered to the tree by its water system. Its so important to know the ability of your trees medium. -Silica

So I'm curious what others on the forum would suggest in my situation given all of the above interesting responses. The seedlings are planted in Promix HP mix with some added perlite. They are in airpots which should help with supplying added oxygen to the roots. They are currently situated near a south/east facing fence and are getting a lot of direct sunlight. Should I shade them with a shade cloth and keep the watering to a minimum or should I keep them in the direct sunlight and just water daily during the summer.

In other words, is it better for them to get more sunlight and more water or less sun and less water?

Silica, in the trial that you mentioned, what was the composition of the medium? Better yet, can you provide a link to that trial?

I agree that a well draining medium allows as frequent watering as one desires. However, if one were to use a medium that does not have sufficient drainage, e.g., regular potting soil, then it seems to me that less frequent watering would prevent root rot, would it not? In other words, it is OK to use such media as long as one is careful about (over) watering.

Zomick, I am not familiar with the medium you use and so cannot comment on whether or not you should water more or less frequently. (See Mike's and Silica's comments.) I agree with Mike and John that the black pots are a big problem. I have commented on this forum about the injurious effects on root function caused by high temperatures in black pots. I spray paint all my pots white. Alternatively, you may shield your pots with something to prevent solar heating.

By the way, I am wary of using Rootmaker pots because I have found that, at least for seedlings, these pots result in poorly developed roots compared to seedlings grown in standard nursery pots. Also, seedlings in Rootmaker pots formed much fewer branches and were thus of an inferior quality. I have posted these results on the Container Forum. Of course, this may not apply to more mature trees.

Thank you Vladimir I went to go see your post in the container forum. Did you paint your root maker pots white? If so, did you notice an affect on the trees at all? I have been hesitant to do it because of all the holes I am nervous the paint will get on the roots.

For the experiment I mentioned, I did not paint the Rootmaker pots or the nursery pots white. I have continued that experiment by potting up Rootmaker seedlings into larger Rootmaker injection molded pots and nursery seedlings into nursery pots, all painted white.

I think you can probably spray paint without obliterating the holes but I would not take the chance of painting them with the plants in them.

Hi Zomick. Could you post photos of the roots of your trees when you repot them next?

I have decided to terminate the Rootmaker experiment because I don't want to spend any more money on it and I would need a lager sample size to make the results statistically significant and meaningful.

The reason that the new growth wilts, when the tree's mature growth doesn't, is because young new leaves have a much higher transpiration rate, then the tree's mature growth. This causes the new leaves to lose water faster. Normally this does not result in damage. - Silica

Higher surface to volume ratio?

If you are using a mix like the one you mentioned even in those air pots, it means nothing when using a mix that is too fine to allow oxygen to the roots anyways...In fact, you will always have a perched water table in a pot with a thousand holes if using a non porous mix..The only good thing those pots do with very fine or composted mixes is allow the water you pour through them to drain faster, but still leaving a very wet compressed mix behind..

I'll bet if you use a porous mix in those pots, you might have better success such as with the 5.1.1 mix)

Too, as I suggested, there is NO need for your tree to be in full hot sun in the afternoon since even if they were in white pots, the roots would still over heat. They would do even better partially buried in the ground if you like them in that spot.

A lot to think about. Vladimir - I will try my best to remember to post some pics of the roots when I re-pot although the plan was not to do so for at least 2 years. As for the pro-mix HP - I have never used 5.11 or gritty and I'm sure based on the descriptions here that they are certainly more porous than the pro-mix, but before deciding on that mix, I did some research and many people praised the pro-mix HP as an excellent and fast draining mix. With added perlite, I am only guessing that its porosity is more than decent.

The Airpots advertise many things, but the one that interested me the most was the claim that they allow oxygen to reach the roots, drastically reducing the chances for over-watering. I see from Vladimir's experiment that there certainly seems to be less branching for some reason in early growth stages, but if they will help a beginner like me with watering, thats a trade-off I'm willing to make. Especially when it seems like a little top pruning will help with the branching when they're a little older.

As for the full sun - this was the most surprising to me as I have read everywhere that citrus are sun-loving and need direct full sun for most of the day. It sounds like some of the experienced growers here are disputing that to some degree. I have ordered a 30% shade cloth and hope to experiment a little with this regard.

Thanks to all for all the great input, its this stuff that makes this forum so excellent for beginners like myself.

My understanding of John's, Silica's,Laura's and Bretay's comments is that wilting of new growth is normal and nothing to worry about. With my trees, in most cases, I don't worry about it unless it seems excessive in which case I move the tree into shade.

Regarding the Rootmaker pots, again, I stress that the experiment was done with seedlings and the result may be different with more mature trees.

Lastly, I suspect that none of the people responding to your posting have used the medium you are using or are familiar with it. However, many people on this forum, myself included, have had success using the 511 and gritty mix.

Hi Zomick...

There really is no need for a Citrus Tree to grow in all day full sun to do very well..If you provide them at least 5-6 hours they do very well such as mine.

Even mine in full hot all day sun will not thrive at all because they are in pots that will over heat no matter what color pot you use. The roots will become the same temp as the sun and air beating on that pot . Many say full all day sun because many here have ways of keeping the roots from over heating or are growing them partially submerged into the ground or in the ground.

I find that mine do best in partial shade when temps reach the very hot point, over 85 in full sun and then do very well in all day sun in light colored pots when temps are lower. You have to finagle them around to see how they react. In fact, the sun here up north can be much less harsher than the sun further south. You will get it.

No one has to use that mix to know that it will not dry out evenly as does a porous one. That is why you say the bottom 3 inches is still wet after the top is dry.

The top roots suffer drought while the bottom roots stay damp all the time, unless you water in sips to keep just the top portion moist which is no good either.

Hope this helps

Good luck if you see this post.

Mike